When someone says "#10 SS washer"

ProDarwin wrote:

Swank Force One wrote:

914Driver wrote: Where are you using these on the valve train and what happened to the factory stuff? Dan

Inside the rocker arms to shim the HLAs.

Do you have a rocker arm and a set of calipers? O.D. is probably your biggest constraint there. Also need to make sure the bolt/washer combo results in the correct length - if you can bolt it together and measure.

Hrmmm... bolts not in play in this scenario, but don't have a spare assembly at the moment.

I may just have to call Delta again.

Yeah, Ace Hardware stores here in KS actually have really good selection and you can wander. If you can get really good information on the exact washer you need, Fastenal has been excellent to work with the couple times I've needed special stuff that Ace couldn't provide, and they probably have a local depot to pick up at.

turboswede wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: Heh ok.... i'll order these and cross my fingers. Sounds like they're right. They PROBABLY won't cause my valvetrain to fly into a million pieces.

Um, do you really need 100 of them? Why not just stop in to the local decent hardware store and pick up just the few that you need?

Nah, i need 12, so... probably 20 when i inevitably lose a bunch of them during the process.

But it's probably cheaper to just pay $5 shipped than it would be to drive to the hardware store in terms of gas and time.

Wait... inside the rocker to shim the HLA? So you need a tiny OD, with an ID to OD thickness of what, .125"? How much reduced is the base circle on the lobes vs. the stock grind of the camshaft? I assume that's why a shim is needed, to deal with reduced base circle of the cam lobes.

pres589 wrote: Wait... inside the rocker to shim the HLA? So you need a tiny OD, with an ID to OD thickness of what, .125"?

I don't know any of that, which apparently is the problem now that i've learned that not all #10 SS washers are the same.

AN washers?

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/stainlesswashers2.php

Can't imagine why you'd need 10 of them....

Is this a factory part or something you are adding because you decided you need to shim the HLAs? If it's a factory thing I may have it. Txt me if you want me to look for it.

Yeah... for what you're describing, I'd guess a more specfic part is required.

I would think you would want to use proper shims in order to do it right.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-shims/=p6fuoi

In reply to JamesMcD:

Delta regrinds cams. I believe this is to shim the HLA so it is "taller", as an assembly, to return the interface between the HLA and the valve stem tip back to optimal. Otherwise it's going to be tipped. Reduced base circle of the cam lobe by way of regrind would require this.

If you're putting this under the HLA, is .063 thick enough?

I did a valve job and recammed an X-1/9 which changed everything! I got stock shims and ground them down.

You have to realize the punishment they get, hopefully a SS shim won't get beat into a million little pieces you later find in the oil filter.

ultraclyde wrote: Can't imagine why you'd need 10 of them....

you don't have kids do you...

In reply to 914Driver:

Now you see why I'm suggesting he find out the change to base circle? Now that I think about it, he'd need to know the ratio of the rocker as well, as that would affect shim thickness.

I could be completely wrong but I've been in one of these heads, and it all makes perfect sense, at least on the surface.

Swank Force One wrote:

pres589 wrote: Wait... inside the rocker to shim the HLA? So you need a tiny OD, with an ID to OD thickness of what, .125"?

I don't know any of that, which apparently is the problem now that i've learned that not all #10 SS washers are the same.

Hell I am not sure any two in the same box are the same thickness. Those things are all over when it comes to consistency. For anything accurate you need what are called "precision washers"

In reply to Brian:

Ha, no.

ditchdigger wrote:

Swank Force One wrote:

pres589 wrote: Wait... inside the rocker to shim the HLA? So you need a tiny OD, with an ID to OD thickness of what, .125"?

I don't know any of that, which apparently is the problem now that i've learned that not all #10 SS washers are the same.

Hell I am not sure any two in the same box are the same thickness. Those things are all over when it comes to consistency. For anything accurate you need what are called "precision washers"

yeah, the cheaper washers are stamped out of whatever sheetmetal remnants they have left over from other stuff they make- not only do they vary in thickness, but they vary in hardness, as well... if you just need a washer under a bolt head, they work fine... if you are doing precision shimming, you need soecific thicknesses...

EvanB wrote: AN washers? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/stainlesswashers2.php

^^ Probably what you need since they are a smaller OD(same diameter as the corresponding hex head bolt). The link shows a regular and a light and I assume the light would be a smaller thickness. But I couldn't find the thicknesses listed.

pres589 wrote: ... but I've been in one of these heads, and it all makes perfect sense, at least on the surface.

What manner of beast is this? Swank never said.

F2t. Doesnt need to be strong, its only purpose is to take up some of the slack left from the ground cam. It goes in the rocker first, then the hla. It's not going to see any real movement.

Measure the base circle of the reground cam. Deduct this number from the original base circle diameter. Cut it in half. That is the thickness you need to maintain the original hydraulic preload.

Unless it's a pretty aggressive grind, I doubt you'll need much, if anything.

It's aggressive. Delta ships them with shims, though I'm not sure why he just wont sell me a set.

0.030" is what my buddy who has this cam says his were, but he isn't able to measure the other dimensions right now.

I'm not sure if I have time to properly do this, to be honest. I'll offer him a handy or something if he'll just send me a set.

Delta gave you shims but they're not thick enough?

If this were my project I would disassemble one shim, perform a spectroanalysis to find the chemistry, mount and polish it and look at it under a scanning electron microscope to see at microstructure, then I duplicate the shim to the desired thickness.

This takes time but if you would like this done, send me a shim.

...or just keep some lotion handy.

Dan

In reply to Swank Force One:

I would get the measurement then order the right size shims from McMaster. They should be in the next day.

914Driver wrote: Delta gave you shims but they're not thick enough? If this were my project I would disassemble one shim, perform a spectroanalysis to find the chemistry, mount and polish it and look at it under a scanning electron microscope to see at microstructure, then I duplicate the shim to the desired thickness. This takes time but if you would like this done, send me a shim. ...or just keep some lotion handy. Dan

I got the cam used, i don't have any shims at all.