Where to find someone to restore a more modern car?

I have a friend who is very much a non-car person, so whatever answer you come up with, please realize that is who I'm dealing with and I am relaying this back to them.

They have a 3rd Gen Z28 that they want to restore back to "like new" condition. The body is pretty straight with a few dings and a small dent in one of the fenders. No rust. interior is shot. Mechanically, this thing sounds pretty bad. It's going to need a lot of work by what she explained to me.

My suggestion to her was to get the mechanical stuff done first by a mechanic and then find a good body shop to do the exterior and interior. That a '91 maybe too new for most restoration places.

Problem is, I don't know any (good) mechanics to send her to or body shops either. Or anyone who would take on a job like that in general.

Any advice to pass along?

Sell it and find a mint one.

While you have a good path pointed out to them, is it really worth the cash? The car is too new to really restore, but too old for anything else. Unless there is some sort of sentimental value, sell and buy a better vehicle, you will be cash ahead by many thousands of dollars.

Any decent restoration shop should be able to handle it regardless of year. Some may not want to, so if that's the case just check with another one. I generally do all my own work, but when I get over my head I have a resto shop I go too and they've handled work on everything from a 75 Chevy truck to a 2007 Solstice GXP vert (near new a the time) for me.

Another point, if she's not a car person, what's her definition of like new? I've seen people elated with crappy Macco paint jobs that made their car look 'like new' (from a 1/4 mile through dirty glasses that is) while others actualy mean like new.

Even the most non car person can learn to spin wrenches enough to unbolt the old torn/worn seats and bolt in newer / better condition ones. A weekend with with a wet and dry vac and a boat load of cleaning products can do wonders on a crappy interior.

Paintless dent then a real polish job at a detail shop can make even a E36 M3ty car look very very good. If you not in the salt belt, or the bake the clear coat off in 5 years belt, OEM paint jobs last really well.

How bad is the car, can you get pics?>

Sounds like a good way to spend $10,000+ on a car that will be worth $3000 when it's done. But anyway, if they insist, I'd ask someone like www.hawksthirdgenparts.com to recommend a 3rd gen resto shop.

Any body shop should be able to handle the body work on it. We're not talking some sort of frame-off job and starting off with a rusted hulk of a muscle car. I would check around the area for good body shops that are highly recommended, and just approach the shop. They may scoff at the idea of putting that much work and money into a car that new, and that the owner will probably not recoup it, but I can't see many shops turning away business. If they don't or can't handle interior work, I'm sure they work with an upholstery shop somewhere. I would check into shops that handle both normal/accident work as well as restorations.

As far as mechanical, again, it's 20 year American car, any competent shop should be able to handle the work.

I'm guessing this car has some sort of sentimental value? If it does, I get it. But if not, they're probably going to spend a lot more money than they will ever get back on a 3rd gen Camaro.

Standard restoration shop work. That said, there is no such thing as a "Standard" restoration shop!

It's actually a pretty easy job other than the 1000 hours of labour that needs to get billed. Plus 20k in parts.

Jack car up.

Strip interior and exterior.

Order new plumbing from Classic Tube

Order new engine and transmission from Jeggs or Summit or whoever.

Paint the non rusty body

Replace the interior with the whole catalog of parts.

Replace windows

Order all new brakes and suspension. Powder coat.

Be grateful there is no chrome!

Re-assemble.

I remember a few years ago there was some big-time pro hotrod/restoration shop in one of the towns along I-39 in IL...Dwight maybe?

I'm sorry I can't remember more details, but they had a TV show for a while IIRC.

Aeromoto wrote: Sounds like a good way to spend $10,000+ on a car that will be worth $3000 when it's done. But anyway, if they insist, I'd ask someone like www.hawksthirdgenparts.com to recommend a 3rd gen resto shop.

I'm currently restoring a 75 Chevy truck. I will more than likely have more in it than it's ever worth and I'm okay with that. Most people that do this for sentimental reasons don't really care about return on investment.

I did several fox body mustangs while I had my restoration shop. I did an SVO to MCA Concourse correct and it cost more $20k. (Still cheaper than a new one.) We did several driver restos that were simple as well. She needs to decide what she wants done and honestly how much can she afford. Does she want to continue to drive it? Or is it becoming a trailer queen? How much does she want to spend? Does she enjoy watching the progress ( might take a while to get done) or is instant gratification more her style.

I personally would avoid most paint shops. They make more money off of the simple fender benders - Resto type jobs tend to sit a while. Go to a few car shows and cruise nights in your area and ask around. Usually the better shops will keep coming up in conversations (as well as the ones to avoid.).

Good Luck to her!

I think the trick here is to not call it a restoration, but instead farm out the work to the appropriate specialists.

In other words, get it a new paint job at a body/paint shop, get new interior at an interior shop, have a mechanic get it running right. Should be loads cheaper than paying for a restoration shop to do the exact same thing.

If you are still in Beecher there is St Aubins right on 52 in manteno that can handle all of that and should be somewhat reasonable. They used to be Trepaniers paint shop but since he took it in house they have a bit more free time. Also; they employ (or did) Bob Thrash who is an unsung hero of the hot rod / pro street / pro touring movement. His daily was a mini tubed Tercel for quite a few years lol.

SEADave wrote: I think the trick here is to not call it a restoration, but instead farm out the work to the appropriate specialists. In other words, get it a new paint job at a body/paint shop, get new interior at an interior shop, have a mechanic get it running right. Should be loads cheaper than paying for a restoration shop to do the exact same thing.

This is the correct answer if you are a good project manager. The problem is that very few customers are good project mangers and there is a lot of workflow to manage in a 1000 hours of car restoration: Recall that they want the car "As New" meaning a shell-up restoration with attention to detail.

The owner will be asked to make decisions they they might not fully appreciate. Spreading the work out allows the contractors to spread the blame. There will be a lot of overlap between the guy doing the body and the guy doing the mechanical. Who is responsible for a particular clip being the correct part and in the correct place?

This is a lot like building a house; technically we could all save a pile of money by being the general contractor, but it seldom works out if and when people try.

First of all what kind of budget does she have and what is the time line. Is there some sentimental values to the car? This really can be a bad thing as it makes people spend copious amount s of money that really should not be spent.

Also we need a ton more info about what is actually wrong with the car. Is it a basic tune up or is it a motor rebuild / replacement. You are looking a 4K. Trans? another 3K Paint (done to new car spec and) you are not changing the color can be 3-5K. Complete interior repair replacement 2-3K. Even more depending on what you do. Especially if you are dealing with new parts versus junkyard / ebaymotors hunting. Have her look at the cost of new seats from the dealer. It may stop the process rite there.

You really need to get a lot more details about her expectations and the money she is willing to spend before we can actually give some kind of answer that has value.

From what you are telling us it sounds like this has not been thought through completely.

Get out a pad of paper and start listing all the things she wants to do with the car and then start getting prices for each and of post it up here and I am sure that there are many here that can put reasonable guestimates to the cost.

You can further take the list and separate it in to stuff she can do (if she wants to) Like others have said a good interior cleaning can go a long way to restore things (remove the seats and go to town on it). Add in a couple hundred for worn knobs and seat covers and it wont be new but it will be a huge improvement.

Or have her go to various shops and get estimates for various things. Go with her so she does not get the female added tax (if that is an issue in your area).

Talk to others in your area and see who they have used for various things.

mtn wrote: Sell it and find a mint one.

Absolutely. Unless she was conceived in the back seat there is no sentimental justification for spending what it will cost to make it 'new' when there are dozens of nice ones still populating the planet that can be had for a 3rd of the price.

Sentimentality about inanimate objects is, unfortunately, silly. It led to a original owner '64.5 Mustang coupe (six cylinder), hopelessly rotted, sitting at a body shop awaiting restoration. A tree fell on it. The only thing that was good on the car was the roof, and that's what got crushed. She still wanted it fixed. I had to convince her to say goodbye to a pancaked pile of rust. Reason needs to take precedent over emotion.

send it my way. i do.....

in all honesty, id have to talkk with the owner at great length to find out just what she wanted. some people call modifieds restorations. some call the aforementioned maaco jobs like new. some want date coded nos parts. all that is a different ball game to the guy doing the work.

also, she needs to realize that 10k will get parts coming in, but not labor. shes looking at probably a 25k investment if she wants everything new not nos, slighltly better than stsock. i know my labor rate on resto is 35/hr, and im the cheapest guy in my area that stands behind his work.

I'm going to ask her some more questions and get back to you guys. She just dropped this on me and I know what I would do, but for other people it's not the same. I have not seen the car yet. This is not something I'm getting involved in, I'm just passing along information.

And yes this car is sentimental to her. I have read what some of you have said about sentimental cars and frankly we all have different ideas of sentiment, so give up on the reasons why, just know that it's sentimental.

Also, it may not be the same in all areas, but stock 3rd gen Camaros in the shape she wants her car in, go for a premium around here. She has already accepted the fact that she is going to put more money into it than its worth. She is ok with that. She's going to keep the car for a long time.

By what I've been told, the car starts, runs, and drives. It idles rough, the transmission shifts hard (I imagine there is a shift kit in it) and some of the electrical stuff in the interior doesn't work, like the blower motor and some of the gauges.

According to her the car is solid. No rust. However she told me the T-Tops leak. I haven't asked if she has a tarp or something over it, but I imagine if they leak, they have done something to keep it from leaking into the interior.

I am going to stop by and take a look at the car in the next couple weeks. I'm going to ask her in person what her budget is, not over Facebook (which is how I was contacted)

Dusterbd13 wrote: also, she needs to realize that 10k will get parts coming in, but not labor. shes looking at probably a 25k investment if she wants everything new not nos, slighltly better than stsock. i know my labor rate on resto is 35/hr, and im the cheapest guy in my area that stands behind his work.

A parts car could probably bring that figure pretty far down. Find a clean car that's been totaled and swap over the interior.

The hard shifting could be the TV cable out of adjustment, or the TV is sticking. Maybe try disconnecting the cable from the throttle body and vigorously working the cable back and forth by hand to maybe loosen things up. As far as rough idle, one of the first things to check is the TPS.

I've owned a few road going 3rd gens, and hacked up a few dozen for parts. I know my way around them pretty good.

Also, back in the day, just like the IROC-Z, Z/28 decals were used liberally on non-Z/28s and even 6 cyls. A real Z/28 basically has the same equipment as the IROC had, but GM lost rights to the IROC name in 1990. You should see the high rise rear spoiler, non functional hood blisters, a bowtie in the front license plate area (the non-Z/28s have "CAMARO"), and most importantly a TPI 305 or 350. If it's a 305 car, it may or may not have the disc brake LSD rear. If not it should have aluminum rear drums, a non Z/28 will have iron drums and wheel spacers.

Aeromoto wrote: The hard shifting could be the TV cable out of adjustment, or the TV is sticking. Maybe try disconnecting the cable from the throttle body and vigorously working the cable back and forth by hand to maybe loosen things up. As far as rough idle, one of the first things to check is the TPS. I've owned a few road going 3rd gens, and hacked up a few dozen for parts. I know my way around them pretty good. Also, back in the day, just like the IROC-Z, Z/28 decals were used liberally on non-Z/28s and even 6 cyls. A real Z/28 basically has the same equipment as the IROC had, but GM lost rights to the IROC name in 1990. You should see the high rise rear spoiler, non functional hood blisters, a bowtie in the front license plate area (the non-Z/28s have "CAMARO"), and most importantly a TPI 305 or 350. If it's a 305 car, it may or may not have the disc brake LSD rear. If not it should have aluminum rear drums, a non Z/28 will have iron drums and wheel spacers.

Good to know. I don't know much about 3rd Gens, all I know is it's a '91 305/auto with t-tops. When I see this car, I will keep an eye out for those things.

ddavidv wrote:

mtn wrote: Sell it and find a mint one.

Absolutely. Unless she was conceived in the back seat there is no sentimental justification for spending what it will cost to make it 'new' when there are dozens of nice ones still populating the planet that can be had for a 3rd of the price. Sentimentality about inanimate objects is, unfortunately, silly. It led to a original owner '64.5 Mustang coupe (six cylinder), hopelessly rotted, sitting at a body shop awaiting restoration. A tree fell on it. The only thing that was good on the car was the roof, and that's what got crushed. She still wanted it fixed. I had to convince her to say goodbye to a pancaked pile of rust. Reason needs to take precedent over emotion.

If I used reason over emotion I wouldn't be in this hobby in the first place. I have way too many cars and bikes for most anyone to consider "reasonable".

In reply to Cotton:

Yes you do.

One good thing is that the parts prices are cheap. Worst case a tranny rebuild is maybe $1200 on the high end, and small block Chevys can be rebuilt for the change you find in the sofa. Brake and chassis stuff is cheap too

Cotton wrote: If I used reason over emotion I wouldn't be in this hobby in the first place. I have way too many cars and bikes for most anyone to consider "reasonable".

Nail on the head, my friend. Sometimes even I think I'm crazy.