Where to mount the ECU? & which to select?

The factory puts them in the trunk with attending long wires and vacuum hose) 
 I'm thinking to mount the aftermarket ECU where the  glove Box used to be. ( shorter wires). 
    Is there any real reason not to?  
 Second. Vibration.  I always use the engine as a chassis stiffener  but it likely would impart some vibration.   In the past  I've used mechanical fuel injection or carburetor's .  Should I mount the unit rigidly or on. Some sort of vibration isolating system. ( mesh wire? Rubber? Silicone? ) 

  While I'm racing should I have my lap top also mounted someplace as a recording of engine performance during the race?   Or leave it in the pits?  

Anything worth installing should all be epoxy potted and vibration rated from the factory.  Look how the OEMs mount everything and copy it or reach out to the manufacturer of the aftermarket ECU for their mounting recommedations (rigid vs rubber isolated).  Use the datalogging feature of your ECU and review the data in the pits instead of trying to juggle a laptop.  If you need a display screen to see ECU parameters, set up a display screen and just view the PIDs you need to view.  

Do use vibration isolation, this will help keep connectors and even solder joints from vibrating apart. On a purpose-built race car, the glove box space is a great location, the passenger footwell area is another common and decent choice. With a modern ECU/EMS you should not have to take a laptop out on track, you should be saving the logs for later analysis, or transmitting live telemetry if you're really fancy. With my AE92 running the MS3x, I leave my laptop in the pits and I can plug it in when I come in to view the logs (or pull the SD card and plug it into the laptop).

In reply to GameboyRMH :

That seems logical.   How much memory do those ECU's hold?    I mean I know I won't be tuning in the race or even practice.   But will it hold 30+ minutes?   

I mounted the ECU for the Ecotech swapped B210 to the passenger firewall. GM frequently mounts them in the engine bay so anywhere inside the cabin would be an improvement. It has thrived there for 3 years without a hitch. 

I mounted the ECU on my re-engined 56 MG under the firewall/panel over the passenger's knees. Inside the cockpit is a better environment than under the bonnet and it is up where it won't get bumped or kicked and the connecting wires to the engine loom are short.

93gsxturbo said:

Anything worth installing should all be epoxy potted and vibration rated from the factory.  Look how the OEMs mount everything and copy it or reach out to the manufacturer of the aftermarket ECU for their mounting recommedations (rigid vs rubber isolated).  Use the datalogging feature of your ECU and review the data in the pits instead of trying to juggle a laptop.  If you need a display screen to see ECU parameters, set up a display screen and just view the PIDs you need to view.  

 

PIDs? 
    
What ECU do you recommend?  I've got a brand new Megasquirt  but is it enough?   
    I'm putting turbo's (2) on the V12  and going to be using E85.  
  As I think  I understand  that will allow me to batch fire the fuel. But will it allow me to ditch my distributor and  go to coil over.  Parts for that distributor start out in the nosebleed section ( $249.00 for the rotor) and stay there.  Plus the aftermarket ones don't have a real good reputation for reliability.  The truth of that statement  may be just that people are afraid of things they don't know or understand.   So maybe they are bad mouthing?  It's happened a lot with Jaguar.   
    Do I need a Megasquirt Gold box?   Megasquirt pro3?  Other brands?  
      When I go on the Megasquirt site, guys are talking like a Jaguar is some Formula  1 engine and I need••••••• 

  Maybe I do?  All I want to to is trigger the coils to fire and adjust the fuel mixture.   
    I Think I can use just basic waste gates  for now.  Maybe later use the computer to control that?  I mean 2 bar should be all the boost I'll ever likely use.   
   

frenchyd said:

In reply to GameboyRMH :

That seems logical.   How much memory do those ECU's hold?    I mean I know I won't be tuning in the race or even practice.   But will it hold 30+ minutes?   

If it has an SD card slot it can hold practically as much as you want, I use an old one of somewhere between 1~8GB (don't remember) and I basically don't need to worry about storage, a track day session will produce a few megabytes of logs even when logging a healthy number of data channels.

Vibration mounts

http://rubberpartscatalog.com/home/products/vibration-control 

The 8gb sd cards will hold about a week of data logging for continuous running. At the fastest logging rate.

In 15 years at DIYAutoTune, we had one ECU sent in that we diagnosed as vibration failure. That was for a mod added with extra wires, in a dune buggy. We changed the way we did the mod and did not have the problem crop up again. The D-sub connectors in original MS design could have vibration failure if you didn't support the wire in high vibration uses, especially solder cup versions.

I vote for a foot well, where it's both cool and out of the sun, and is still fairly easy to access. The trunk is another option but will heat-soak more than the foot well. Also, the engine wire harness has to be much longer with it there, which while not a huge deal, is heavier, more susceptible to noise, and damage. On MIdlana, being mid-engine, I put it on the forward side of the firewall, behind my seat.

Maybe I should ask you?  
 I've got a brand new Megasquirt. 
  Will that run all 12 cylinders if I want to run coil on plug?  Instead of the distributor? 
 Stock fuel  is batch firing. But I'd like to  be able to follow both throttle bodies. If possible.   
  Will my existing unit work or  do I need a Megasquirt Gold box? Or a MS 3 pro to do that? 

PID in the automotive world stands for "Parameter Identifier"  It is what you are monitoring, IE RPM, throttle position, coolant temp, etc.  There are also things that are less tangible that can be recorded and viewed like load, open loop vs closed loop, airflow, cylinder balance, so on and so forth.  

If I was going for an all-out build right now on a V12 I would buy a Haltech Nexus R5 which will give you 12 channel ignition, 18 channel fueling, auto trans control if you want it, traction control, drive-by-wire, and more bells and whistles than you can shake a stick at.  It also has built in drivers to control things like fuel pump, water pump, up to 25 amps without the need for a separate relay board, so eliminating failure points and simplifying your wiring and programming.  You can get the IC7 dash and it will display everything you need for your gauges.  

But (and here is the big but) I wouldn't advise buying a controller until my project is 100% done and defined and just needs to be wired up.  Get the mechanicals 100% first, figure out the options you need, then shop for ECUs.  Just like anything else with a computer, the speed at which the technology is progressing is alarming and today's new hotness is yesterday's old news.  

93gsxturbo said:

PID in the automotive world stands for "Parameter Identifier"...

 

That may be, but many processes, even in engine ECUs, run via "PID" algorithms, where P = proportional, I = Integral, and D = Differential. It's a method that allows  processes to respond smoothly to changes, without excessive undershoot, overshoot, or offset errors. My AEM Infinity ECU has many PID processes running.

93gsxturbo said:

PID in the automotive world stands for "Parameter Identifier"  It is what you are monitoring, IE RPM, throttle position, coolant temp, etc.  There are also things that are less tangible that can be recorded and viewed like load, open loop vs closed loop, airflow, cylinder balance, so on and so forth.  

If I was going for an all-out build right now on a V12 I would buy a Haltech Nexus R5 which will give you 12 channel ignition, 18 channel fueling, auto trans control if you want it, traction control, drive-by-wire, and more bells and whistles than you can shake a stick at.  It also has built in drivers to control things like fuel pump, water pump, up to 25 amps without the need for a separate relay board, so eliminating failure points and simplifying your wiring and programming.  You can get the IC7 dash and it will display everything you need for your gauges.  

But (and here is the big but) I wouldn't advise buying a controller until my project is 100% done and defined and just needs to be wired up.  Get the mechanicals 100% first, figure out the options you need, then shop for ECUs.  Just like anything else with a computer, the speed at which the technology is progressing is alarming and today's new hotness is yesterday's old news.  

The engine is  ready.  I'm just planning on where to build the mounts    Like to have all the welding done before the painting.   
  The Haltech sounds like massive overkill.   I'm looking for something a bit more budget friendly.  Worst case I'll freshen up the distributor and put it on my distributor machine to ensure it's doing what  it's supposed to and just run my Mega squirt.  
        If you've ever set the timing on a Jaguar V12  you'll understand my preference for something do it with a key stroke.   I'm willing to bet that nobody in the last decade  except a  real die hard  racer has ever checked the timing on a V12. 

Ms3x will need mods from jbperf.com.

Ms3pro can do sequential injection on a v12 and the latest firmware allows sequential coil on plug. Either the Evo or Ultimate can do this, but the Evo won't have much I/O left.

The Ms3 Gold is more closely bases on the Ms3x, but harder to modify. I don't think you can get sequential v12 support out of it, but you can check if EFI Source has any way to do this.

Thanks. That's exactly what I needed to know. 
  It was concise and perfectly answered me.   
   Hmm. I wonder if I should put the Megasquirt in my 1972 sedan?   I wonder if I can input the data from the alcohol sensor effectively giving me Flex fuel capability? 

kb58 said:

93gsxturbo said:

PID in the automotive world stands for "Parameter Identifier"...

 

That may be, but many processes, even in engine ECUs, run via "PID" algorithms, where P = proportional, I = Integral, and D = Differential. It's a method of allowing analog processes to respond smoothly to changes, without excessive undershoot, overshoot, or offset errors. My AEM Infinity ECU has many PID routines.

Gotta love when the same TLA means two different things.

frenchyd said:

93gsxturbo said:

PID in the automotive world stands for "Parameter Identifier"  It is what you are monitoring, IE RPM, throttle position, coolant temp, etc.  There are also things that are less tangible that can be recorded and viewed like load, open loop vs closed loop, airflow, cylinder balance, so on and so forth.  

If I was going for an all-out build right now on a V12 I would buy a Haltech Nexus R5 which will give you 12 channel ignition, 18 channel fueling, auto trans control if you want it, traction control, drive-by-wire, and more bells and whistles than you can shake a stick at.  It also has built in drivers to control things like fuel pump, water pump, up to 25 amps without the need for a separate relay board, so eliminating failure points and simplifying your wiring and programming.  You can get the IC7 dash and it will display everything you need for your gauges.  

But (and here is the big but) I wouldn't advise buying a controller until my project is 100% done and defined and just needs to be wired up.  Get the mechanicals 100% first, figure out the options you need, then shop for ECUs.  Just like anything else with a computer, the speed at which the technology is progressing is alarming and today's new hotness is yesterday's old news.  

The engine is  ready.  I'm just planning on where to build the mounts    Like to have all the welding done before the painting.   
  The Haltech sounds like massive overkill.   I'm looking for something a bit more budget friendly.  Worst case I'll freshen up the distributor and put it on my distributor machine to ensure it's doing what  it's supposed to and just run my Mega squirt.  
        If you've ever set the timing on a Jaguar V12  you'll understand my preference for something do it with a key stroke.   I'm willing to bet that nobody in the last decade  except a  real die hard  racer has ever checked the timing on a V12. 

Buy once, cry once.  Besides, don't you want your last check to bounce?

All your questions are very easily answered and have been by a host of us over the years 

kb58 said:

93gsxturbo said:

PID in the automotive world stands for "Parameter Identifier"...

 

That may be, but many processes, even in engine ECUs, run via "PID" algorithms, where P = proportional, I = Integral, and D = Derivative. It's a method that allows  processes to respond smoothly to changes, without excessive undershoot, overshoot, or offset errors. My AEM Infinity ECU has many PID processes running.

Fixed that for you (Derivative).

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

All your questions are very easily answered and have been by a host of us over the years 

Thanks to all of you.  This seems to be my go to website.

93gsxturbo said:

PID in the automotive world stands for "Parameter Identifier"  It is what you are monitoring, IE RPM, throttle position, coolant temp, etc.  There are also things that are less tangible that can be recorded and viewed like load, open loop vs closed loop, airflow, cylinder balance, so on and so forth.  

If I was going for an all-out build right now on a V12 I would buy a Haltech Nexus R5 which will give you 12 channel ignition, 18 channel fueling, auto trans control if you want it, traction control, drive-by-wire, and more bells and whistles than you can shake a stick at.  It also has built in drivers to control things like fuel pump, water pump, up to 25 amps without the need for a separate relay board, so eliminating failure points and simplifying your wiring and programming.  You can get the IC7 dash and it will display everything you need for your gauges.  

But (and here is the big but) I wouldn't advise buying a controller until my project is 100% done and defined and just needs to be wired up.  Get the mechanicals 100% first, figure out the options you need, then shop for ECUs.  Just like anything else with a computer, the speed at which the technology is progressing is alarming and today's new hotness is yesterday's old news.  

The  basic outline of what I'm doing started over 5 years ago.  It was firmed up at that time. All but the final bits. 
Minor  things like the rotor for the distributor and suddenly a new rotor costs $249.00! Add  the rest of what is needed just in the distributor and suddenly coil on plug makes economical sense.  

  But wait. The Megasquirt I have won't support that. So I'm upgrading.   
   Now I'm going to be visiting junkyards to see what coil on plug I'll use.   
    Jaguar uses 6 coils with 2 leads from each coil to dry fire  the opposite plug. I understand it's a  Ford V6 thing?  

Which ms do you have now, uS? The microsquirt running a distributor and batch fuel will get you going, but maybe not hit the long term goal. I don't like to wire things twice but I have a few customers that have gone from the micro to others once they were outgrown. Depends if you want to cry once or twice!

The ms3 pro evo or ultimate would be a better choice. The decision there would be on the other i/o and injector choice. 

In reply to Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) :

I'm away from the shop right now when I get back I'll grab the Megasquirt and try to figure it out.  It's at least 6-7 years old but unused.   That's one I'm hoping to be able to put into the 1972 sedan and get it to be flex fuel capable. That one I can use the distributor and batch fire the fuel.  
      
     It's been a while since I wired a race car but it lasted from 1976 until recently when it went into the museum. Without a single problem.  I'm sure EFI is multitudes  harder  but  patience and persistence will probably yield similar results. 
       At least I can color code it unlike when I worked on Navy aircraft wiring and all wires were white.   ( you had to read  the numbers on the wire) 

      The race car is the one that will get the MS3 Ultimate.  I wonder what I'll need to spend by the time I buy the unit  and the  wiring etc to be able to plug my lap top into it?