Which car - sub $3,000, AWD edition

Regarding kicking out the tail in AWD, it's probably gonna depend on The torque ratio, which I cannot find for the Ford cars. Like a lady at work complained that her Chrysler was super scary to drive and her Cadillac was awesome to drive in the snow. It turns out the Chrysler 300 is a lot more rear biased and the Cadillac meanwhile can go like full FWD. The Saab definitely kicked it out last winter. 
 

My current goal is to find one of the FoMoCos, they start out at a decent power to weight ratio and only get better, like a TT MKZ. I'd be down for an Infinity but they all seem pretty worn out and beaten to death. Whereas I'm looking at one owner Ford/Mercury/Lincolns.

Why recommending longitudinal? 

P3PPY said:

Why recommending longitudinal? 

With the EVO being the only exception that comes to mind, most transverse AWD setups very much behave like FWD, sending torque to the rear only after slip is detected up front.

Over the years these systems have improved a lot, but one you find for $3000 may not give you the kind of drive you're looking for.

In reply to P3PPY :

Sign me up for one of those $3k Lincoln TT MKZs!    

MrFancypants said:

P3PPY said:

Why recommending longitudinal? 

With the EVO being the only exception that comes to mind, most transverse AWD setups very much behave like FWD, sending torque to the rear only after slip is detected up front.

Over the years these systems have improved a lot, but one you find for $3000 may not give you the kind of drive you're looking for.

Most transverse systems do not have a center diff. Evos, DSMs, and maybe half the Toyotas are the exceptions.  Sticking a center diff in a transverse AWD system quickly becomes complicated.  I think the Toyota units have three concentric shafts shuttling torque around, as torque gets sent from the front differential housing (what the trans ring gear is attached to) to the center diff, which then shuttles it back from its front-axle output to the front diff that rotates freely in the front diff housing, and then the right side axle sends the output from the right side of the front diff through.  

That's a lot of intricate machining, splining, bearing areas, etc that can be much more easily done with a single output off of the front diff and eliminate the center.

now, mind you, WRC also do not have a center diff, either, just an axle disconnect so handbrake can be used.  But most non-diff street cars have either a simple viscous coupler to reactively apply torque to the rear wheels after a wheel speed difference, or an electrically controlled coupling that is fairly weak as far as torque capability is concerned.  

My Volvo's Haldex can transmit up to 1000 newton-meters, which sounds like a lot until you factor that is driveshaft torque, not engine torque.  It works well enough that you never find yourself spinning the front tires, but it is not a motorsports solution.

Well, this weekend's trip was fun but a car shopping bust. I learned a bunch, but this is going to be hard to find something in this price range that doesn't disappear before I can get to it. Hopefully the salt stays away for a while so I have time to get something. 
 

Thanks for going into the transverse thing. I'll have to revisit the explanation another time; I happen to be tired enough to have just relinquished the wheel to my MIL so I'm pretty spent right now. 

In reply to John Welsh :

Wait I just saw on another thread -  you have a Milan too? Funny parallel. Yeah the twins will be hard to come by at that price point, but their older brother is still potent enough for me at 3700 lbs and 260 hp. I've been okay with the minivan not being quite as fast as the BMW, but it may yet lose that battle with the winter beater car!

In reply to P3PPY :

I liked that Milan though mine was a 2010 with the 2.5L 4cyl and an auto trans.  Snce 2007 the Fusion/Milan/MKZ was offered with a 3.0L and awd.  There was a Fusion Sport that bumped it up to a 3.5L and awd.  The MKZ as awd in 2007-2012 had the 3.5L  

You might luck into finding a 2007 MKZ w/ awd near your prce point.  The Lincoln version offered AC seats too!  I don't know anything about the quality of the awd system but my guess is it is generally the Ford Escape awd system offered in a car body rather than the suv body.  The boxy Escape offers the same 3.0L engine.

You might have to a hard time searching for a MKZ awd.  Your perfect seller is probably someone who doesn't even realize that the car is awd, so, they probably wont list it as awd.  This will likely mean that you'll need to open every MKZ listing and look for trunk badges in the ads.  I don't think there are any other indicators in the interior that it is awd.  Nothing like a lever or dash switch like you might find on some suvs.  

That 400 hp, 3.0L twin turbo MKZ (and Continental) was only available from '17-'20.  Their prices will still be high.  

I've driven a fusion before and it didn't feel too big or portly, whereas the Infinitis, like all modern Nissans, looks like a big fat pig. Apparently the weight is about the same however. that horsepower jump for the Infiniti, though… That's something else!

There's probably a reason I haven't heard anything about either one of those cars' off-roading abilities. 

I realize that it boils down to the fact that my jack of all trades is going to be a Subaru, but I have such a bad taste in my mouth about those that I'm having a hard time getting behind it.
the 2.5 is so slow, and anything with the turbo is out of my price range or really old and adds layers of further untrustworthiness. 

The Pontiac Vibe (and Toyota Martix) offered an awd option since 2003. Think Corolla wagon or Rav4 without the ride height. 

With awd the Vibe is auto trans only. 

Sample Vibe:

I'd like to re-suggest a Gen 2 Explorer. They're not too hard to come by and have pretty common parts. They've got longitudinal engines, RWD bias, and some ground clearance. I'd take one over a similar vintage Subaru for sure. If the CoG is too high, lowering them is a pretty simple affair.

I've had some snowy fun in one and came away with a big smile on my face.

STM317 said:

I'd like to re-suggest a Gen 2 Explorer. They're not too hard to come by and have pretty common parts. They've got longitudinal engines, RWD bias, and some ground clearance. I'd take one over a similar vintage Subaru for sure. If the CoG is too high, lowering them is a pretty simple affair.

I've had some snowy fun in one and came away with a big smile on my face.

I agree with all this and I want to add this since I forgot.

Stay away from the 4.0 SOHC engine. It has multiple timing chains and the engine needs pulled to get the one in the back, it's incredibly stupid. Get only the 4.0 OHV, available in 4wd/auto 4wd , or the 5.0 which is available in AWD