Which hated transmission to use?

tuna55 wrote:

novaderrik wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

MadScientistMatt wrote: How about an MY6, aka the Chrysler A833? Plenty tough, and I don't think it's all that expensive.

I have one of these and vouch for it. The ratios are a bit wide as they account for an OD, but it's a good unit.

the ratios of the GM version of the A833 are pretty close to a 700r4, which is the original 80's name for the 4L60 that was already mentioned...

Exactly true... but... the auto benefits from the torque multiplication of the converter before first gear. An auto with a given ratio spread will actually have a better spread than the same ratios on a manual. Anyway, works fine for DD, but not super ideal for racing. Still a good, strong, relatively cheap choice.

you don't need the torque multiplication of an auto when you are talking about a 3.06:1 first gear ratio- that's getting into "granny gear" territory and was used because of the gutless engines of the era and the crappy gears they used to try to get some gas mileage- but it might come in handy when you shift into second and the rpm's drop way down due to the large spread from 1-2...

Kenny_McCormic wrote: MY6 would probably work too, but you'll likely need to replace the bearings in any given junkyard unit you run across. Considering the car and engine in question, the ratios shouldnt be much of an issue.

Have you done this? I have to do that very thing for the MY6 in my truck, soon. I keep saying soon, but everything before it keeps taking longer than anticipated. Let's say next week I should be tearing it apart.

Ok. This may take some hunting, but I had a '68 Buick with a 3 speed transmission. It was a factory Ford toploader and said FMCO on the side. I beat on it to death and the transmisson never failed. I have seen them at big swapmeets and the Buick/Pontiac boards for free to cheap $50 to $100 (no one really wants a 3 speed). Post up on a Pontiac board and see what what returns.

1968 Pontiac GTO DEARBORN 3 Speed Toploader Transmission

novaderrik wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

novaderrik wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

MadScientistMatt wrote: How about an MY6, aka the Chrysler A833? Plenty tough, and I don't think it's all that expensive.

I have one of these and vouch for it. The ratios are a bit wide as they account for an OD, but it's a good unit.

the ratios of the GM version of the A833 are pretty close to a 700r4, which is the original 80's name for the 4L60 that was already mentioned...

Exactly true... but... the auto benefits from the torque multiplication of the converter before first gear. An auto with a given ratio spread will actually have a better spread than the same ratios on a manual. Anyway, works fine for DD, but not super ideal for racing. Still a good, strong, relatively cheap choice.

you don't need the torque multiplication of an auto when you are talking about a 3.06:1 first gear ratio- that's getting into "granny gear" territory and was used because of the gutless engines of the era and the crappy gears they used to try to get some gas mileage- but it might come in handy when you shift into second and the rpm's drop way down due to the large spread from 1-2...

I understand your point. I am merely thinking that it's going to lose some tractability as compared to a 700R4, but it also has less parasitic loss. It also has an infinitely adjustable stall speed, which is sweet for the street.

Of the choices mentioned for the challenge, it would be my pick unless a T10 came up in the same price range. It certainly has a better chance of surviving than a T5, which sounds like a recipe for disaster. I suspect, but don't know, that it also a good bit lighter/smaller than the NV series truck transmissions.

The MY6 can be found behind the 81-86 Chevy/GMC diesel trucks, which are available for basically nothing, so that's a good donor.

In reply to tuna55:

I have not, but I wouldn't expect it to be any more difficult than rebuilding any other old 4 speed.

Good idea to do the case mods outlined here. http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/drivetrain/mopp_0110_a_833_aluminum_case_buildup/

Hehe . . . Thanks for all of the suggestions outside of the two options I have

I considered all of the proposed (except T56 and Autos) transmissions. After numerous hours/days of yard and CL crawling, I'm left with the two I have in my garage.

The MY6 would be awesome and was the original trans I wanted. I found two within 150 miles of me and both were sold quickly. The same for the NV3500.

As I said, minimun buy in for a T10 is now $600 for an unknown box or $1100 for a rebuilt unit.

I'm leaning towards the Saginaw. Rebuild kits are ~$110 and the replacement units are abundant and cheap on CL and eBay. After talking to some local circle track guys, they indicated it would survive barring drag launches on slicks, power shifting, and side stepping the clutch.

I'll keep the wcT5 for another project.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: It would be much better to lie about the budget than to walk home from the test drive.

Not really, because then there's no longer any point in competing.

Well assuming you get a MY6 complete bell to shifter, I THINK it will bolt in place of a saginaw.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: Well assuming you get a MY6 complete bell to shifter, I THINK it will bolt in place of a saginaw.

Indeed it can. The starter on my old three speed was bolted to the transmission bellhousing, so that was different, but the driveshaft was the same and the mount is the same as an auto.

id go for the t5 ive had great luck with them personally and ive spent alot of time pushing a saginaw car onto a trailer

mr2peak wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: It would be much better to lie about the budget than to walk home from the test drive.

Not really, because then there's no longer any point in competing.

Competing at what? Best tow home? Most fantastical leg amputation? Most work to install a 15 minute lifespan-part? Who wants to drag a pending failure half-way across the country when they don't really have to?

I've broken way more than my fair share of WC and non WC 6cyl T5s and all ratios of Saginaws in the exact same car/weight/rear/tires. I'm here to report that you will get farther with the 2 ring Saginaw than with the WC 6cyl WC T5.

Neither of these transmissions have let me down to the point that they could not be driven home in 4th gear. With the T5 it was usually 3rd gear or the teeth on the input shaft, with the sag it was teeth on the input shaft or teeth on the 1st gear section of the cluster.

I'd like to also recommend a clutch slipper to remove some of the torque spikes that the transmission will see. Here's a link to explain what i'm talking about... Clutch Slipper Link

In reply to weedburner:

Sweet!! Thx . . .

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

mr2peak wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: It would be much better to lie about the budget than to walk home from the test drive.

Not really, because then there's no longer any point in competing.

Competing at what? Best tow home? Most fantastical leg amputation? Most work to install a 15 minute lifespan-part? Who wants to drag a pending failure half-way across the country when they don't really have to?

I don't get the personal injury thing. I have personally broken lots of transmissions and performed almost as many trans-plants in my professional life, and they never damaged the case. The gears or one of the shafts just sort of become multipiece.

Clutches and flywheels scare the crap out of me. So does, say, doing a burnout in certain automatics, which under the wrong conditions can send one of the grenade-like drums spinning at over 10,000rpm. But manual transmissions? They just fall apart and stay self-contained.

And your first and fourth points are why I transported a pre-filled transmission with me to Tulsa in 2012. (The year I drove the car there instead of towing) The trans would be the #1 potential cause of non-drivability so I cam prepared. I probably could have even swapped the trans out between runs, if I had to. I changed the trans again yesterday (third one... this year) and it took forty minutes, taking my time. With another set of hands or two, it'd be lots less.

I will add, after having torn apart my transmission, that hard parts are hard to come by for this MY6/NP833/NP440 transmission. I am working on finding a new fourth gear. Happily, the shift forks were available readily as they also were used in a transfer case.

Thanks for the update Tuna . . . I did find a AX-15 for a decently cheap price that I may check out this weekend. If I get it, I'll put on the shelf and use the $300 Novak adapter if/when the time for replacement comes.

Still can't beat the $100 rebuild kit for a Saginaw or the $50-200 buy-in for one.

There was a '70 Muncie 4 speed on Atlanta CList yesterday asking $250? and gone today.

Muncie Transmission - $350 (Dallas Ga)

This is the GM/Ford toploader 3 Speed. Too much $$$, but they are out there.

GTO Pontiac Manual Transmission with Hurst Shifter - $500 (Franklin, Nc)