Which wagon to buy?

Add Hotchkis supsension, 4.8L V8 from a truck with a FAST intake and you got yourself a 300hp, 28mpg cruiser.

In reply to Bobzilla:

That would be essentially the one I badly want.

ReverendDexter wrote:

Ian F wrote: hmm... one of his complaints was the automatic trans and poor highway mileage... and as cool at the old aircraft carriers are, they fail in both criteria...

Bollocks! Manual trans to go behind a domestic smallblock can be found in EVERY SINGLE junkyard in the country, and mileage is only a pair of turbos away (doubly so when combined with the .5:1 O/D found in the viper-spec T56). On top of that, a twin-turbo Country Squire converted to a stickshift will have a total cost of less than $10k (and that's assuming that you buy a turbo kit and don't roll your own). You'll also have parts availability at every rickety shack of a parts house in every podunk town you happen to find yourself in, and you'll never be at the whim of german automotive electrical engineers.

Right. You build it and get it sorted it out and make it a reliable daily driver and I'll buy it for $10K. Otherwise., I say: B.S.

I mean come on guys... I love pie-in-the-sky dream projects as much as any of us (I come up with plenty of my own), but if the OP is asking a somewhat serious question, it would be nice if at least a few of the answers were realistic.

here is what you need: Audi RS4 Avant...

Dude, convert is to a stick. go to turbobricks.com and look around. You can use a T5, a Getrag (BMW) or a Supra transmission. You can also use the volvo transmission, AW71 maybe? All of it bolts in. The aero is actually quite good on the 940, like .35ish. Way cheaperr and easier than buying something new.

Yes!!!!!

In reply to TJ:

I've drooled over those, but can't afford it, and not at all sure you can get it with a manual trans.

Country Squire with a 5 speed manual and twin turbos? Well OK, that would be a hoot, it's my kind of sick. But...

1.. How do you figure turbos help gas mileage? Sure you can use a really tall rear end, but you could do that with no turbo and get even better mileage. Just need to downshift for power, but that's OK. When you're on the boost you better be running rich to ward off detonation. When not on the boost, those compressor and turbine wheels just get in the way of efficient breathing.

2.. The real issue: I have project vehicles that pay me to work on them. I don't need a complicated project that could only save me a few thousand at most. I could get a 2002 525iT, very clean with 100k miles, no rust, and a five speed, Buy It Now for $12k. Probably i can do better if I wait. Even if I could build and sort a twin-turbo Country Squire, even if I could find one with no rust and magically keep it from rusting, the hours it would consume would take me away from paying projects. Not a good economy.

tuna55 wrote: Dude, convert is to a stick. go to turbobricks.com and look around. You can use a T5, a Getrag (BMW) or a Supra transmission. You can also use the volvo transmission, AW71 maybe? All of it bolts in. The aero is actually quite good on the 940, like .35ish. Way cheaperr and easier than buying something new.

In my humble opinion this makes lots of sense. I love wagons, and this thread got me searching. If the 540i wagon came with a stick in merica I would vote 540i six speed. But it dont.

jrw1621 wrote: You could be "the master of the road" in this 40k mile beauty. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1994-Buick-Roadmaster-Wagon-40-200-miles-Mint_W0QQitemZ250484034363QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item3a52030b3b&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

I'm going to faint now. :)

In reply to tuna55:

AW71 is the slushbox I have now. Would need T5 or Supra trans.

Was driving today and thinking how good the car is, as is. I'd prefer a stick but the gas I'd save would realistically take 3 years or more to pay for the swap. Unless one of you guys who says it's so easy wants to do it for $500 plus all the beer you can drink in a weekend? :-) The $500 should easily cover not only the parts, but the hours to find the parts, and the few minutes it will take to get all the details right, eh?

The car is solid, has no rust, and is a well-maintained known quantity. My smart move is to just keep driving it. But I can't help dreaming...

ekauppi7 wrote: In reply to tuna55: AW71 is the slushbox I have now. Would need T5 or Supra trans. Was driving today and thinking how good the car is, as is. I'd prefer a stick but the gas I'd save would realistically take 3 years or more to pay for the swap. Unless one of you guys who says it's so easy wants to do it for $500 plus all the beer you can drink in a weekend? :-) The $500 should easily cover not only the parts, but the hours to find the parts, and the few minutes it will take to get all the details right, eh? The car is solid, has no rust, and is a well-maintained known quantity. My smart move is to just keep driving it. But I can't help dreaming...

Well there you go.

Wait, you are upset because a $500 transmission swap will never pay for itself in gas mileage? What other wagon is going to pay for itself at all? I think you need to reconsider. Most of the time, when people say their car is about to break or too expensive to fill up they really mean: I haven't bought a car in a long time.

If you like the car, and it's not broken, do some searching on turbobricks, buy a T5 et al for a few hundred bucks and spend a good weekend getting it all together. I've never done it, but come on, it's a transmission.

-Brian

I like Bobzilla's b-body wagon idea. I would find all the impala SS trim bits to bolt on and put a t56 from an lt1 f body in it.

tuna55 wrote: If you like the car, and it's not broken, do some searching on turbobricks, buy a T5 et al for a few hundred bucks and spend a good weekend getting it all together. I've never done it, but come on, it's a transmission. -Brian

Ok... I will speak now as someone who HAS done a auto-tragic to manual conversion in a Volvo (a '73 1800ES, to be specific). In the case of the 1800, this conversion is a bolt in as most of these cars were manuals (so the bits are readily available from salvage vendors) and the later E/ES cars used a cable-clutch that is stupid easy to install. Unbolt the 1-pedal brake assembly and install the 2-pedal clutch/brakes bits. Even wiring the J-type o/d is easy. We pulled the engine for the conversion, but it's not 100% necessary.

I'm 90+% sure the 9-series Volvo was NEVER built with a manual trans. So a conversion would require cobbling bits from a similar 7-series car. Possible? Yes (go on Turbobricks - it's been done). Easy? Eh...Nope...

(with that in mind, a 740 turbo wagon with a manual may be an answer for you...)

Second - have you shopped for a T-5 tranny lately? Good ones don't sell for "a few hundred..." unless you're lucky and find somebody who doesn't know what they have. For better or worse, these transmissions are simply too popular. Most I've seen at swap meets and what not sell for over $500. Screw that... I'll pay a bit more and get a new one with a warranty and at least have some idea of what I'm buying.

$250 stock rebuilt T5s were common on eBay a few months ago. 700/900=same car with a different badge. Go look in one and call me a liar. Therefore a swap using all the 700 components IS a bolt in. "Easy" depends on your skill level. It took me all of an hour and a half to remove everything needed from a junkyard donor-on my back in gravel with no power tools. Only issue is that most 700s were LH2.2 and you'd need an LH2.4 flywheel to keep the stock injection system. These go for about $90 on turbobricks or eBay. That gets you a Volvo 5 speed that can later be swapped for a T5, Getrag, etc. once you're sure there are no bug to work out. Total cost was about $300 without new clutch, rubber mount, guibo, etc.

If you pay $500 for a stock used T5 you deserve to get screwed.

A quick check of car-part shows one for $450 from a Mustang. I saw a V8 Mustang in the boneyard the other day, and the price list shows $89.99 + $10 core for a transmission.

Sounds like 'a few hundred' to me.

I guess this is where I fail on the "grassroots" thing sometimes... I have a problem with spending as much time and effort as it takes to do this sort of conversion, only to install a junkyard transmission. If/when I get to that point with my project 1800ES, the extra $$$ for a new T-5 will be inconsequential... I'm not trying to build a Challenge car here.

And where to live that you can pick up a used T-5 for $100?

A quick Auto-Trader search reveals mostly AWD: a few 5 and 3 series BMWs, Audi Allroads, A4 and A3, Subaru Legacy/Outback and WRX.

FWD opens it to Jettas, Saab 9-3 Sport Combi, Chevy HHR and Volvo. Not much else unless you go to an automatic. Then I would recommend the Impala Wagon on 24" rims.

Check a self service junkyard. Mine (and a few others) have lists. It doesn't matter if it's a T5, a TH350, C4 whatever, it's that price. Look around. Transmissions last a long time. I could say: why go through all that time and trouble to end up with an old 1800ES? Nobody is building challenge cars here, but we all have budgets (or lack thereof) and need to stay below thresholds.

But why complain about the cost of even a brand new T5 when it's still going to cost less than another used wagon if mileage is truly the issue? Neither will pay for itself unless gas goes to a bazillion dollars or the daily drive goes to 100+ miles. It makes way more sense to spend less money on a car that you know is basically right already, rather than buying a used car again.

Let's not forget, also, that under that wagon that the OP is looking to buy, there lurks a ::gasp:: used transmission!!!!

Ian F wrote: And where to live that you can pick up a used T-5 for $100?

Near a pull-a-part.

"TRANSMISSION 5 SPEED MANUAL $54.32"

Junkyard_Dog wrote: Near a pull-a-part.

Ah... pull-a-part options in my area are limited...

tuna55 wrote: Check a self service junkyard. Mine (and a few others) have lists. It doesn't matter if it's a T5, a TH350, C4 whatever, it's that price. Look around. Transmissions last a long time. I could say: why go through all that time and trouble to end up with an old 1800ES?

I ask myself the same question... which is why I haven't really done anything with it yet... needs a lot of work just to be a "car" again...

I've tried the pull-a-part thing... First, there are very few in my area and have a rather poor selection. Second, I sadly have very little time to go to these places... One yard I pass by has a Spitfire that I can see from the hwy and have been wanting to look at... unfortunately, they are open from 10am to 2pm... ONLY on Saturday. I've been passing said Spitfire for over 2 years now... Since when I get a free Sat with nothing planned, I usually do something that doesn't involve cars for a change...

Basically, it gets to a point where the convenience of buying a new part out-weighs cost savings of spending half a days scrounging for a used one. I simply don't have that time.

Yes... it's true that used cars have used transmissions... but at least in that case you can (usually) drive the car before buying it and have at least some idea of how well the transmission works. When buying a junkyard tranny, you don't know... and won't know until you get it installed in the car.

mw wrote: I like Bobzilla's b-body wagon idea. I would find all the impala SS trim bits to bolt on and put a t56 from an lt1 f body in it.

You had me at b-body and kept my attention all the way though T56..... I may have found my new soulmate!

I understand the time element, what with my one year old and my -3 month old and all. Yes, that's a negative sign. If the OP doesn't have enough time to spend a weekend swapping a tranny though, he probably also doesn't have enough time to spend searching for a new car.

If pick-a-part stuff is that bad near you, you can buy a parts car 740 or Mustang or whatever, swap the parts, and sell the parts car with the auto stuff when you're done. Go to a swap meet, T5s aren't that special.