Why do we like e46s?

Thank gawd I only paid 750 for the 02 325ix. Already had most of the cooling system replaced and fresh brakes and tires but, when you go through all the possible deferred maintenance / weaknesses on an e46, dang. What a list! From DISA to rear subframe mounts. My wife better enjoy and drive the crap out of it

You seem to have unusually high expectations for a $750 BMW.

LOL! Indeed, pretty much any BMW under $5,000 is going to require the above.

I'm simply referring to all the weaknesses. I dd a 996. They catch a lot of flack but don't have nearly the list of potential deferred maintenance items an e46 has. I'm doing the e46 list not because it needs them but because it might. I'd do it on a 5k one unless there was proof it had been done recently

See my thread in here.

I just bought one (330i) with 200k miles with every item fixed. clean as can be. The owner spent over $3k in the last year doing all the "might break" items. Then saw a 340i for his wife and impulse bought it...

If you keep up on the maintenance to begin with it's a lot less expensive, that's for sure. You can also upgrade to a lot of parts that eliminate the factory weaknesses and never worry again. Considering real nice ones are still around $5k I don't know what you'd expect from a $750 BMW. Keep in mind a 996 is still a ~$20k car so people are going to be a lot more alarmist about the problem areas, and to be fair a BMW won't suddenly lose a cylinder liner or grenade the engine due to IMS failure.

The long and short of it, though, is that they are great driving cars with really nice interiors that require less service than a M-B, Jaguar or Audi and are pretty capable from a motorsports perspective.

There are also plenty of fine Toyota products out there for people who think BMWs are too needy

Nathan JansenvanDoorn wrote: You seem to have unusually high expectations for a $750 BMW.

Yeah, sheesh, for $750 what did you expect? If it's already HAD the cooling system done, that's the bulk of the real problems right there. The subframe issues are internet urban legends except in really abused cars. The valve cover gasket weeps a little? Who cares - check the oil once in a while.

My 120k-mile 2003 325i has a few of the normal issues: it needs an overflow tank and thermostat. The CCV is probably plugged. 1 window regulator is bad. The pillars need to be re-covered. But other than that it starts every time I turn the key, it still handles quite well on the OE suspension bits, the original clutch is holding up just fine, and it happily zooms right up to the rev limiter every time I ask it to.

Don't forget your DISA, you wouldn't want to drop the pin, kablamooo. How about mushrooming shock towers. The ones on this car are fine so I'm going to either wait or not worry. The rear suspension issues aren't urban myth, just much more common on M cars since they are driven harder. I'm not going to worry about that one much either. CCV, all filters, fluids, tune-up, VCG, DISA, and VANOS are first on the list.

markwemple wrote: I'm simply referring to all the weaknesses. I dd a 996. They catch a lot of flack but don't have nearly the list of potential deferred maintenance items an e46 has.

Isn't the 996 the car that lunches it's own motor via IMS failure, costing you the price of the car itself to replace, if you don't do certain maintenance? Even with all the weaknesses the E46 has it doesn't really experience catastrophic failure at that level.

In reply to markwemple:

I've had four BMWs with M52/54 engines (two E39s, E36 and E46), two of which were well over 200k when sold, and never had a DISA issue, knock on wood. No idea on the mushrooming shock towers, I thought that was a MINI thing. I tracked the piss out of my E46 330ci at Road America and always checked the subframe mounts after but never had issues, word was that ~10% of cars are affected and most of them are the '99-00 models. Especially with AWD offloading some of the stress from back there, you should be fine. The CCV design sucks but is what it is, for some reason all the Euro makes can't design a PCV system for crap (just ask any Volvo, Saab or VAG guy). VANOS rattle is an annoyance but if you fix it once with viton seals you are good to go for the life of the vehicle. Valve cover gasket is just another one of those things that all cars will need eventually.

Honestly my high mileage BMW ownership was not too different from my high mile Volvo ownership. Both needed specific things with some frequency but they were comfortable, reliable cars as long as you kept up on them. If you stay on top of everything from the get go it's more of a $250 a few times a year kind of maintenance. I have only seen a torn subframe mount with my own two eyes once, and that was a beat up supercharged 1999 328i, but I'm now looking at E36 M3s and Z3 2.8s for my next track car project so who knows, I may finally see another in the wild. I daily drive a Honda now because the kind of travel I do for work requires an appliance, but I wouldn't hesitate to have another E46. Lovely highway bomber with a great interior, and the sport seats in particular are to die for.

That is so overblown on the 'net. It's less than 5% and a 996, if driven regularly and kept up on oil changes with proper oil and filter, it's a rare problem.

Random question since it seems the vanos is the only thing the PO did not do on the car we bought. Can you tell when the vanos fails? I.e. does teh car flash a light at you? or is it only one of those "oh I am down on power, vanos must have failed?"

In reply to Mad_Ratel:

There is a very distinct rattle sound the car will make under acceleration near the bottom of the rev range. Google "VANOS rattle" for examples. Otherwise it will be down on power a little bit but that's it, no MIL or anything. It is just annoying more than anything else.

Yeah, cheap HF stethoscope and listen up front. I'm planning on doing it since it has 203k and the new kit should fix it for the lifetime that we'll have it. (Esp since I have to do the radiator and valve cover anyway)

I only like 'em because they are a lot nicer driving than E36s, which are squeak and rattle city once they have a couple years on them. Plastic that ages so fast Mazda would be embarrassed to use it.

Hmm and yet in my small group here I've seen multiple Cayman/Boxster/996's blow themselves apart at the track.

Several had already had the IMS done too. Cylinder wall failures, oiling failures, IMS failures all make that entire generation of cars something I'm unwilling to buy.

It feels "down" on power but apparently that could be the auto slushbox... lol. Or the fact that my daily is a ecoboost f150...

I had the DISA valve break on my wife's E46 330, but it didn't do anything noticeable to the car. It was an expensive part, but not hard to swap at all.

markwemple wrote: That is so overblown on the 'net. It's less than 5% and a 996, if driven regularly and kept up on oil changes with proper oil and filter, it's a rare problem.

Yes, but your complaint was "boy these E46 cars sure have problems when you don't do maintenance" and yet a 996 where you don't do regular maintenance runs the risk of being totaled.

Less than 5% is still a decent percentage of the cars, enough that pretty much every person I talk to about 996 cars or Boxsters with the IMS recommends some sort of check on them and/or replacement of the thing with a more reliable version. Anecdotal evidence is a friend whose Boxster blew out from the problem.

Then one of the guys on here BoxheadTim has a Build/Project thread where he went through some crazy money with the 996 he bought where it hadn't quite blown up yet, but there was enough damage that it required a whole engine teardown to fix.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/daily-driving-a-cheap-porsche-911-996-what-could-p/92344/page1/

Worn out E46's do require a rather extensive refresh to get back to "right", but when right they are really really good. BMW has always been very good at making cars go, stop, and turn really well without making you suffer for it.

Speaking earlier of rear subframe issues. Isnt an auto, 2.5, awd car the least likely to damage the rear subframe because its least stressed of the lot?

I accept that all cars have design flaws. Just that I'm a bit shocked at the number of them. Not hatin' here, just talking. OTOH, the 996 hates to sit. Almost everyone that has gone kablammo, sat a lot and wasn't driven hard. I use redline oil and do a change every 5k. I also have a magnetic drain plug (so stupid that the factory didn't use one from the jump as all air cools do) and check my filter for particles. I'm doing the clutch soon, so I'm going to have a look at the RMS and IMS.

markwemple wrote: Thank gawd I only paid 750 for the 02 325ix. My wife better drive it to Gainesville and Challenge the crap out of it

fixed it for you

Rear subframe cracks on E46s and IMS problems on Porsches aren't urban legends. I've seen 996s getting towed away from track days regularly for a long time. And every E46 that I've looked at has SOME degree of subframe fatigue.

The reason the list of things is so long is mainly because 'typical' BMW and Porsche owners are very picky and strive for perfection. MOST of those things wont fail immediately and catastrophically.

To answer the original question -We like E46s because they are the latest DIY-able BMW, yet are fully depreciated.

i will admit, I refuse to lift the rear carpet in her 330i to check for the cracking.

I thought you had to pull the rear subframe to check for cracking.