Why electric cars will not work.

I pride myself as being aware of my surroundings.

Saturday I was walking out of Meijers when I hear a nest full of birds screaming. It did not take a rocket scientist to figure out the sound was coming from around my knees and my knees were next to a Toyota Prius. I look in the passenger wheel well and low and behold there is a nest in the rear bumper.

It is my opinion that the Prius is not loud and therefore does not scare birds, rodents and varmints away upon start up.

I can't wait to see what field mice do to the wiring of an electric car!

Squirrels will dominate the electric car.

A bit unrelated, but to the topic of the impracticality. I rented a hybrid Altima. The engine would turn on at 25 MPH from accelerating, but a lift throttle from steady velocity could get it into EV mode. I could turn the cruise control on and as long as the road was level, it would cruise at 38 MPH, full electric. I did this on a long flat straight. I could literally watch the battery charge gauge move from full charge toward discharge. After 1 mile the engine turned back on to recharge the battery. That was it - 1 mile range at 38 MPH. Yee ha.

A bit unrelated, but to the topic of the impracticality. Its a berkeleying electric car. If it has no nuclear reactor on-board its never going to have enough storage to equal the driving needs of this country. A berkeleying steam engine that burned stove pellets would make as much sense and need way less silly tech... just a lot of berkeleying pellets.

Umm glueguy, a 'hybrid car' and an 'electric car' are two similar, but different animals. The battery pack on a hybrid is just for short term energy storage, precisely as you have demonstrated.

glueguy wrote: A bit unrelated, but to the topic of the impracticality. I rented a hybrid Altima. The engine would turn on at 25 MPH from accelerating, but a lift throttle from steady velocity could get it into EV mode. I could turn the cruise control on and as long as the road was level, it would cruise at 38 MPH, full electric. I did this on a long flat straight. I could literally watch the battery charge gauge move from full charge toward discharge. After 1 mile the engine turned back on to recharge the battery. That was it - 1 mile range at 38 MPH. Yee ha.

Wow. Was it fully charged to start with? That's pathetic...not even enough to make the electric powertrain practical for "city crawling."

I keep saying I want a KERS-like system on my Samurai, so I can shut off the engine and just press a button to roll forward when I'm stuck in gridlock traffic.

Funny story: Me and the sysadmin were discussing electric cars. I said I'd have nothing against getting one for a DD if I were buying a new car but he was totally against it, because of the charge time. "If it runs out what are you going to do, HUH!? Tow it back home to charge it?" We live on an island that is 16 freaking miles long. How are you going to unintentionally deplete the battery on the road?

So that's something to think about next time somebody brings up the range argument: maybe it's just something they're mentally uncomfortable with.

Ohnoes, the EV doesn't make cool whoosh noises. Well the good ones that I've driven have this think Clarkson calls "torques" and boy do they work.

Your average person drives less than 25 miles per day. An EV is perfectly capable of doing that. That's the driving needs of this country, but people seem to point at the outliers and scream bloody murder.

No one states the EV will be your only car, it'll be a second car that you know you drive to work. I live 3 miles from work, and an EV would work just fine and dandy.

Why even bother with a steam engine, just run on the wood pellets:

http://www.windward.org/notes/notes63/wal63_b.htm

Personally, I'd like to see a car that runs on junk mail. I'd sign up for all the catalogues.

As a long time slot car buff, I actually look forward to affordable performance electric cars. I already know they can flat-out get it from a stop. I can't wait till they dominate autocross.

That said, I still think they are not "the answer" as we still rely way too much on coal, etc to create electricities in this country. I like hydrogen fuel-cells as the "future", but reading about Mazda's fabled 16X running direct-injection, turbocharging, and bio-diesel makes me happy!

P71 wrote: As a long time slot car buff, I actually look *forward* to affordable performance electric cars. I already know they can flat-out get it from a stop. I can't wait till they dominate autocross.

Nobody is going to let you run a giant slot car in their lot. The pin will tear up the asphalt.

autoxrs wrote: Ohnoes, the EV doesn't make cool whoosh noises. Well the good ones that I've driven have this think Clarkson calls "torques" and boy do they work. Your average person drives less than 25 miles per day. An EV is perfectly capable of doing that. That's the driving needs of this country, but people seem to point at the outliers and scream bloody murder. No one states the EV will be your only car, it'll be a second car that you know you drive to work. I live 3 miles from work, and an EV would work just fine and dandy.

If that's all you're going to drive it, then why have it? You're not going to use much gas in that short commute either, so why put up with the downsides of an electric vehicle?

P71 wrote: As a long time slot car buff, I actually look *forward* to affordable performance electric cars. I already know they can flat-out get it from a stop. I can't wait till they dominate autocross. That said, I still think they are not "the answer" as we still rely way too much on coal, etc to create electricities in this country. I like hydrogen fuel-cells as the "future", but reading about Mazda's fabled 16X running direct-injection, turbocharging, and *bio-diesel* makes me happy!

Fuel cells make a lot of sense, but won't be the future if the current administration has anything to do with it. They've already halted GM's development. It's no wonder, since they are in bed with GE.

bravenrace wrote:

autoxrs wrote: Ohnoes, the EV doesn't make cool whoosh noises. Well the good ones that I've driven have this think Clarkson calls "torques" and boy do they work. Your average person drives less than 25 miles per day. An EV is perfectly capable of doing that. That's the driving needs of this country, but people seem to point at the outliers and scream bloody murder. No one states the EV will be your only car, it'll be a second car that you know you drive to work. I live 3 miles from work, and an EV would work just fine and dandy.

If that's all you're going to drive it, then why have it? You're not going to use much gas in that short commute either, so why put up with the downsides of an electric vehicle?

+get a bicycle

Fuel cells make no sense whatsoever. Fuel cells are interesting technology and all, but since there is no natural source of H2 gas t use in them they are in effect just like EVs. The H2 takes energy to produce and until there is a cheap and clean way to do that they don't solve anything, but bring a lot of new problems to the table.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

P71 wrote: As a long time slot car buff, I actually look *forward* to affordable performance electric cars. I already know they can flat-out get it from a stop. I can't wait till they dominate autocross.

Nobody is going to let you run a giant slot car in their lot. The pin will tear up the asphalt.

autoxrs wrote: Your average person drives less than 25 miles per day.

Finally, proof positive that I'm "way above average."

The EV topic comes up over and over, and while the industry is "getting there", they aren't there yet. The BIG PROBLEM is that there's a lot of marketing spin (lying) about car specs. What many overlook is the big picture, preferring to focus on the lack of a tailpipe as meaning there's zero emissions. No, oil comes out of the ground (or Uranium...), get sent in big ships to the U.S. where it's piped to powerplants, that burn it to boil water, to turn generators, to make electricity, which goes through 100s of miles of wires to your house, where the owner smugly charges his electric car. Every step in the process is an efficiency loss, nevermind what happens to the old battery packs that no longer hold a charge.

Yes, they're "getting there" but I'm getting real tired about claims of a 200 mph car that goes 0-60 in 2 seconds and goes 1000 miles on a 5-minute charge... Yes, they might be able to do this, but the fact they put all these numbers in one sentence implies it does all of them at the same time. Hell, even the drag race that the electric car "won" was fixed, since it had to cool off between runs.

I'm pissed at the brainless media for not asking the hard question, instead just mindless parroting what EV manufactures' claims. Grrr.... What it's going is poisoning the public's opinion of EVs as complete BS, which is more true than not right now. Some day it'll all be true but not yet.

Lastly, the real irony is: Imagine everyone in California suddenly has an EV... 1. Our already-marginal electric system will fail. 2. Even if it didn't, now you're driving to work in an EV, sitting in the exact same traffic jam as before...

In reply to TJ:

It helps to think of a fuel cell as a battery. It's just a means of storing potential electrical energy in a chemical fashion...just like a battery. The only difference is that this battery can be "charged" in a matter of minutes by topping off the tank, not the hours it currently takes EV cars.

47 for me.

klipless wrote: It helps to think of a fuel cell as a battery. It's just a means of storing potential electrical energy in a chemical fashion...just like a battery. The only difference is that this battery can be "charged" in a matter of minutes by topping off the tank, not the hours it currently takes EV cars.

But where does the energy come from that splits hydrogen and oxygen that's used as fuel. Powerplants, that consume what?

The whole EV thing reminds me somewhat of the high-tech semiconductor industry, how it was viewed as "very clean" because there were no smoke stacks... That industry creates all sorts of pollution, it's just not as visible.

erohslc wrote: Why even bother with a steam engine, just run on the wood pellets: http://www.windward.org/notes/notes63/wal63_b.htm Personally, I'd like to see a car that runs on junk mail. I'd sign up for *all* the catalogues.

I think you may have inadvertantly sovled the world's energy crisis...

John Brown wrote: I pride myself as being aware of my surroundings. Saturday I was walking out of Meijers when I hear a nest full of birds screaming. It did not take a rocket scientist to figure out the sound was coming from around my knees and my knees were next to a Toyota Prius. I look in the passenger wheel well and low and behold there is a nest in the rear bumper. It is my opinion that the Prius is not loud and therefore does not scare birds, rodents and varmints away upon start up. I can't wait to see what field mice do to the wiring of an electric car!

There was a first-gen Prius that was entered in the Canadian Rally Championship several years ago. As I understand there was some discussion that it needed to be fitted with a siren or something. If the car was running downhill, the engine would shut off and spectators would not hear it coming.

I personnally witnessed this at a Ralliy in Maniwaki Quebec - whooooossshh!

kb58 wrote: But where does the energy come from that splits hydrogen and oxygen that's used as fuel. Powerplants, that consume what?

You're missing my point. I never mentioned anything about pollution or things of that nature. I was just replying to TJ's comment that fuel cells have no inherent benefits. Both fuel cell and battery EV's allow you to take energy from the grid, store it on board and use it to get from point A to B. It's just that it takes longer to top off your charge with batteries compared to refilling your tanks with hydrogen.

Why do we make such sport of getting our knickers in knots? EVs are a tiny knitch market, and while that market is growing, it'll remain small for the foreseeable future. Nobody says that we have to use them - even Obama.

Fortunately I go commando, so there's no knicker-knotting going on here.