WWGRMD? Winter commuter and 2500 pound tow rig

The Cayenne had really goofy throttle tip in.  Also, the cruise control didn't work, and just the anxiety of it on a test drive (!) put me off.  It wasn't sporty  enough to even partially fill the hole the Corvette would leave.

They do that annoying 'start in 2nd' thing. 1st gear feels good but its also hard to be smooth in its own way because it's such a low gear that too much throttle gives you an accidental drag launch for 5 feet until you let off. I agree it doesn't strike a perfect balance between its starting gears, DBW behaviour, and torque converter. I want to find out if a 3.2 converter will fit in mine..

As for sporty enough to replace a corvette, if the cayenne doesn't do it then just stop looking for that from SUVs because as far as i know it doesn't get any better. It's a hell of a lot closer than a Town Car, but having said that I'm still way more enthusiastic to see you end up in a Town Car than a Cayenne. lol

I have a 3.73 lsd carrier/gear set i scrounged out of a junk Mustang rear end housing that I keep around explicitly in case I end up with a Town Car for some reason..  

In reply to Curtis :

Only looking to tow the 2100 pound trailer lightly loaded with dirtbikes and gear.  If I load the Jeep to go somewhere I may as well take my mobile luxury palace with me.  So, any towing the Town Car would do will likely be in the 3000 pound neighborhood, but lots of wind resistance.  It has a V-nose, but it's tall.  The rear door opening is 69" and I haven't measured the actual height of the trailer from the outside.  

What's wrong with the stock air suspension on the Lincoln Town Car?  Can you over ride the auto controls and set an air pressure manually?  What about an aftermarket air bag suspension?  Seems like that would be a good way to adjust height for cruising unloaded, dirt and snow road driving, and compensating for tongue weight.  

Vigo said:

 

As for sporty enough to replace a corvette, if the cayenne doesn't do it then just stop looking for that from SUVs because as far as i know it doesn't get any better. It's a hell of a lot closer than a Town Car, but having said that I'm still way more enthusiastic to see you end up in a Town Car than a Cayenne. lol

 

This is exactly correct and I think it's how I feel as well.  I was kind of working towards a little bit of a fleet reduction in some way since I'm adding an old Willys to the lineup.  

The other consideration would be to spend a lot more money and get the turbo diesel Cayenne.  They're available in the low 30k range.  This would get me the good fuel economy and towing power, but definitley require that I sell everything except the camper and the Willys.  I would feel badly about all the rock chips and sand blasting that you get driving back and forth to the Mountain.  A winter beater just makes sense.  

The system should compensate for tongue weight on its own (within reason).  I would just want better swaybars and stiffer (laterally) tires than stock.

What about a 32 valve Lincoln Mark VIII?

https://bend.craigslist.org/cto/d/1997-lincoln-mark-viii-pearl/6718460292.html

5" shorter wheelbase and 300-500 pounds lighter.  290 hp vs 220 ish.  Any mods would probably net better results on the 32 valve motor.  Unibody instead of body on frame though.  Same transmission.  Probably a smaller trunk but still pretty big.  

Crickets?

Petrolburner said:

In reply to Curtis :

Only looking to tow the 2100 pound trailer lightly loaded with dirtbikes and gear.  If I load the Jeep to go somewhere I may as well take my mobile luxury palace with me.  So, any towing the Town Car would do will likely be in the 3000 pound neighborhood, but lots of wind resistance.  It has a V-nose, but it's tall.  The rear door opening is 69" and I haven't measured the actual height of the trailer from the outside.  

 

What's wrong with the stock air suspension on the Lincoln Town Car?  Can you over ride the auto controls and set an air pressure manually?  What about an aftermarket air bag suspension?  Seems like that would be a good way to adjust height for cruising unloaded, dirt and snow road driving, and compensating for tongue weight.  

Copy that on the 3000 lbs.

The stock air suspension is very soft and very weak.  Its rare to see a town car that doesn't have a completely sagged out butt.  There are aftermarket kits to convert to coils, which is good because the stock airbags are about $1400 each to replace.  If you cruise some Ford car forums, many buyers do the conversion right away to prevent the failure.

In short, they suck.  Hardcore donkey balls suck.

Air suspensions can be great, but for towing and loads they need to be purpose built for it.  The Lincoln air suspension is barely adequate at GVW and it will neither handle towing weight very well, nor will it last long with the extra tongue weight.

If you want an air suspension, you can do it.  You need to select a ride height and get the spring you want that is correct for that ride height.  Actual air pressure has less than you think to do with spring rate in an air spring.  You set the pressure for whatever makes the spring its designed ride height.  In one car that might be 40 psi, in another car with different bags, it could be 100 psi.

You'll also need to select shocks that will properly dampen things.  Oscillation rates for steel springs are pretty fixed.  Air bags are highly compliant.  They can oscillate fast or slow.

A much simpler solution would be helper bags inside the coils or (not ideal) air shocks that you could air up when you tow.

As far as I know, the air ride in those is completely hands-off, computer controlled, and not adjustable without hacking software and/or hardware.  Many of my customers who brought me Town Cars didn't even know they had air suspensions.  One said his coil springs broke, so he brought me his Town Car and some coils from a Crown Vic.  I had to gently break it to him that it doesn't work that way.  He ended up spending more on new airbags than he did for the car itself.

If you do air, I strongly suggest something to positively locate the rear axle; Panhard or Watts link.  (that's of course if it doesn't have the later IRS).  If it's IRS, I would beef it up a bit.  They're pretty wussy with soft rubber bushings.  You'll get a lot of tail wagging the dog if you don't upgrade some things.

Soft and complaint + towing = not fun

In reply to Curtis :

I think the stock solid rear axle on the 03+ already has a Watts link.  They pretty flimsy looking steel units, but still.  ADTR has billet replacements for the control arms and watts link but they're pretty exspensive.  Perhaps the best replacement for the airbags is this set of coilovers from ADTR with custom rear springs for the weight.  

https://adtr.net/product/ford-crown-victoria/adtr-coilover-system-03/

That and their front and rear swaybars should pretty well take care of things in the suspension department.  Then it's just a matter of traction and whether or not an LSD is present from the factory or not.  I don't know if any of them came with LSD.  

Actually looking more closely at the coilovers from ADTR it seems that they aren't replacing the air springs.  I'll have to talk to them directly.  

Petrolburner said:

What about a 32 valve Lincoln Mark VIII?

 

https://bend.craigslist.org/cto/d/1997-lincoln-mark-viii-pearl/6718460292.html

 

5" shorter wheelbase and 300-500 pounds lighter.  390 hp vs 320 ish.  Any mods would probably net better results on the 32 valve motor.  Unibody instead of body on frame though.  Same transmission.  Probably a smaller trunk but still pretty big.  

290hp factory, only way the 4v got to 390 was in the 2003-4 mustang cobra with a factory supercharger.

I have a 97 mustang cobra with a similar (but not exactly same) motor. intake and cams are different and I have a forged crank instead of the cast one in the Lincoln.   Motor isnt a torque monster, at least in cobra trim. really dosent make power until 3krpm  Not too much that I hear going bad on them though.  That said. The 2v appeared in a LOT more cars and taxis, etc. So probably easier to find parts and have worked on. 

Making more power...  common sense on these is go directly to a blower, but you have a weak crank to go with the weak rods and pistons. I dont know what the lincoln crank is capable of, but the rods and pistons are the same and in Mustangs what I kept hearing was over 450hp the pistons peel like onions. (hypereutecic) 

Curtis said:

 

You'll also need to select shocks that will properly dampen things.  Oscillation rates for steel springs are pretty fixed.  Air bags are highly compliant.  They can oscillate fast or slow.

I suspect what you're really seeing is the variation in spring rate as you change the pressure in the bags. If you add pressure, you really should adjust the shocks to match. The spring rate of steel springs doesn't really vary from day to day

In reply to Apexcarver :

You're right, I mistyped and added 100 horsepower to each.  220 hp just seems so anemic for a modern 4.6 liter V8.  At least the 280+ pounds of torque is ok.  

Rear coil spring swap and Firestone coil-rite air springs seem like the way to go for only about $300.  

 220 hp just seems so anemic for a modern 4.6 liter V8. 

Oh, it is!!   The only panther cars i've been in that felt good with no boost were the ones with gear swaps. That's true of mod-motor Mustangs too although the 32v Mustangs are pretty decent from the factory. Still better with a gear swap. 

In reply to Vigo :

Yeah, I can believe that.  My  MPG goals will probably have me keep the tall gearing unless it really sucks for towing.  I've got the Corvette for performance. I just want the winter car to be amusing.  

Well, I made a deal on that 2003 Town Car I posted earlier.

https://portland.craigslist.org/yam/cto/d/2003-lincoln-town-car-price/6721909449.html

Unfortunately the seller had moved recently and the title wasn't where he thought it was.  He felt awful because I made the drive over the mountains to buy it and offered to deliver it to me.  He found the title and will hopefully deliver it this weekend.  It was pretty darn nice and I look forward to having it.  

That thing looks really good. Hell yes.

Vigo said:

That thing looks really good. Hell yes.

Thank  you and thanks also for all the good advice.  

Do you happen to know anything about when this transmission locks up and whether I should keep OD on for towing?  You had good info in the Colorado towing thread.  

My opinion on towing is that if you are able to use a throttle low enough for your torque converter clutch to stay locked then you can stay in 4th no problem. I also recommend you take control of shifting while towing which just means if you know you're going to downshift to third, do it yourself with the shifter under light throttle. If you shift from 3-4, let off to initiate the shift rather than letting it upshift under power. If you don't drive down the road with the converter unlocked due to throttle angle (makes heat) or doing a bunch of gear hunting shifts under power (wears the clutches), the trans won't wear any faster than it would under normal driving. Cooler is a generically good idea.