The problem with crossovers is that they have horrible back seat room and access. If you want kids in safety seats back there, it is a total pain to get them in and out. Sliding doors rule.
The problem with crossovers is that they have horrible back seat room and access. If you want kids in safety seats back there, it is a total pain to get them in and out. Sliding doors rule.
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine: I will agree with crossovers being pretty small. My football players are 11yr olds, so we're not talking huge, and my other son is out of a car seat, which means the kids are self loading. My wife does babysit a newborn, but that's only 1 seat used with the occasional bulky seat. Liking the Pilot, Highlander, MDX type suggestions. My 'gator has me spooked on Lincolns.
You know, there is nothing wrong with caring about the image you project as it is an important part of society. Lots of people in this day and age (edit - don't care about and...) get away with it, but at the end of the day, there is nothing inherently wrong with it.
I for one wouldn't be caught dead in a minivan, and neither would the girlfriend. Call it whatever you want.
HiTempguy wrote: I for one wouldn't be caught dead in a minivan, and neither would the girlfriend. Call it whatever you want.
I said the same thing before I had kids.
carknut wrote: In reply to Fueled by Caffeine: I will agree with crossovers being pretty small. My football players are 11yr olds, so we're not talking huge, and my other son is out of a car seat, which means the kids are self loading. My wife does babysit a newborn, but that's only 1 seat used with the occasional bulky seat. Liking the Pilot, Highlander, MDX type suggestions. My 'gator has me spooked on Lincolns.
Be careful with 3rd row access with a baby seat in the middle row. It can be very restricted. You'll force your kids to climb over the seat, which will be fun for them but horrible or you with footprints everywhere. I have a Rav4 with a 3rd row and using it is a total pain. Over the 5-6 years I have owned it that third row has been used at such a low rate to not justify its existance.
Be sure to check third row room in the Pilot, Highlander, etc... There typically isn't a lot of room back there. And if there is, that means there is absolute zero cargo room behind the third row. So if you've got people in all 3 rows, where will you put the football gear? Trust me on that...
Fueled by Caffeine wrote: I said the same thing before I had kids.
I've lived with all sorts of vehicles growing up, including a minivan. Sure, it was good for its purpose, no arguing that. Life is just much too short to have EVERY single purchase revolve around your kids (and I understand life revolves around your kids, its just the nature of the beast). I find it a bit funny nowadays, but growing up, my parents factored in our needs as kids only when it came to 1) Roof over head 2) Food on table 3) Education .
Other than that, it was "deal with it, this is the way the world works" and I honestly appreciate them for that, it taught me compromise. So sure, I could see moving to vehicles more "kid friendly", but a minivan takes function over form to an extreme IMO.
HiTempguy wrote:Fueled by Caffeine wrote: I said the same thing before I had kids.I've lived with all sorts of vehicles growing up, including a minivan. Sure, it was good for its purpose, no arguing that. Life is just much too short to have EVERY single purchase revolve around your kids (and I understand life revolves around your kids, its just the nature of the beast). I find it a bit funny nowadays, but growing up, my parents factored in our needs as kids only when it came to 1) Roof over head 2) Food on table 3) Education . Other than that, it was "deal with it, this is the way the world works" and I honestly appreciate them for that, it taught me compromise. So sure, I could see moving to vehicles more "kid friendly", but a minivan takes function over form to an extreme IMO.
I get it, but there is a time factor as well that works. It takes me less time and it is less of a fight to get my kids into the van vs other vehicles. The DVD system makes drives better and the width between the kids means less fighting.
Life is also too short to fight your kid every single time you try to fit them into the back of a hatch. I did it with my civic hatch and found me having to put my daughter(in baby bucket) in and out through the hatch. The bucket wouldn't fit around the seats. Once she was in I had to go around front, climb in and buckle her in as the base wouldn't fit. Now I open a door, snap the kid into a base, tell my other two to buckle themsevles in the back and we leave.. So.. Nice.
I guess for us minivans are like vegetables, just because I should it doesn't mean I will.
DeadSkunk wrote: I think we need to start a campaign to get the term "Soccer Mom SUV" into general use. That's who drives them since minivans became verboten in wheel heeled circles. As for minivans , I keep looking at them as a possibility for me and SWMBO next go round, and we don't have kids or grandkids to haul around. Their utility is awesome.Some aftermarket wheels and tires and four Recaros and I'd be good to go.
Everybody knows that both SUVs and Minivans have the same drivers. Its just that SUV's are more expensive in most ways (and everyone also knows that).
So, would you like to appear to be part of the rich half of the country or the poor half?
At least that is my take on the mini-haters.
And to the OP - I will not keep repeating the mini-love. I know you get it. Its been mentioned, but what about the Ford Flex?
EDIT: its also hard for me to argue with the 'burban. Its just so capable at just about everything. Sure, its more expensive new and at the pump, but buy one that is a couple years older than a comparable oddy/sienna and the buy in savings should cover the difference in gas for quite a few miles.
Need to pull 9k lbs that one time? Sure, no problem.
Need to buy diapers that one day it snows 2 ft every 6 years? The burb has your back.
Want to drive to the back of the property to pick up the moto bike with two flat tires? All day long my friend.
Want to own possibly the most B.A. zombie preper vehicle? Did you know the original suburban was designed with prepping at heart?
You will pay more, but maybe its worth it.
I have a really nice turbocharged minivan that i'm loathe to allow anyone but me to sit in. 
In reply to rcutclif:
My dad has a flex, I've driven and ridden in one, they are the worst of both worlds. Not even as capable as a mini-ute, and not as useful as a minivan. I do like the looks of the some of them though.
Sounds like you got a bad one in the Navigator. I have an expedition XLT optioned with the 4.6 that does everything you list. Not as "nice" as the Navigator or an Eddie Bauer or a limited but with a bit less luxury comes a lot less complexity and this brings the reliability part way up.
Also at 125K you are approaching the mandatory major service millage of most vehicles form my experience. IF you want trouble free you re going to have to go at least 50K lower in the millage.
ive owned several minivans because I don't care about my "image" and most of them were before I had kids but I wont try to convince you to buy one. most of the recommendations for suv's are covered already but I really like the looks of the late model explorers.
Welp, we're going to test drive a van vs mini-utes Saturday. The wife is softening about vans. I watched a bunch of Saabkyle last night on Town and country's, caravans, and odysseys. They do look handy. For me its not so much the image of driving a van, its just the soul sucking appliance side of it. The navibator was attractive because I have a soft spot for 60's continentals, and the interior pays homage. But, I am a sucker for interior van lighting, my grand dad always had conversion vans, and I always thought it was so cool having the rope lights, and uplights lit as we drove down the road. I've already used the, "there will be more room in the back of the van for activities" I definitely pulled that card too soon.
carknut wrote: "there will be more room in the back of the van for activities" I definitely pulled that card too soon.
This is genius on many levels. You could always use the 'stepbrothers' excuse to back out if needed.
Maybe that is the best plan though: we could commission the 50 shades author to write a mini-van mini-book, which could solve a lot of problems for a lot of people.
In reply to rcutclif:
Ha ha, That might work.
In reply to carknut:
A mini-van has the same soul suck as basically everything else in here. Maybe less than some of the options. My minivan driving has been limited to a few generations of Sienna. My Crossover driving is fairly broad, as is my SUV driving. I can definitely say that the Siennas finish mid pack in driving spirit. It is a heavy, long Camry. A Venza is a heavy, slightly less long Camry. A Buick Enclave is a wandering sum-bitch on the other hand. That thing sucked. From the driver's seat though, the Vans feel the same or better than the cross over equivalent.
My Kia Sedona isn't "fun" to drive by any stretch, but it's a lot more competent than any older SUV. I haven't driven the newer unibody SUVs, they may have similar driving dynamics to a minivan...but still less utility.
Don't discount that your kids will get bigger, much bigger. If you have kids in football, mx, mtb'ing, etc, you want the van; also useful as a mobile changing station, dry means of hauling drywall or plywood, etc. You can be flexible with the middle and back rows. We usually leave one middle row seat out for trips, which still gives 6.5 seats.
If needed, I can get 5 HS football players (smallest being 5'10" 210) in the van, plus gear, bookbags, etc.
My sister in law has a Pilot, which does basically everything worse than the Ody. No way are you getting that many big kids and stuff into the Pilot.
Edit: I've always found minivan moms hotter.
It's also hard to express to someone who has not had the experience how nice it is to just walk up to your car and have the two side doors and the trunk open. Especially in a parking lot without worry of kids smacking your doors into adjacent vehicles. And them being able to load/unload themselves (which sounds like ops kids are around 11 so definitely) makes it really easy.
When we purchased our 2010 Odyssey I definitely still viewed it as an appliance and the most boring car we would own but I have to admit it impresses me with its usefulness comfort and features. Which maybe that makes it an appliance but its a nice place to spend time and has gotten up to 27mpg fwy cruising with our family
I really wanted a minivan, but my wife nixed the idea. We have a Lincoln Navigator instead. I'd rather have a minivan.
Fullsize van. Much more room than a mini, tow anything, price is about the same. Nice wheels and some window tint - you're good to go.
Have an 09 odyssey to test drive for the night. Pretty amazing all the ways that thing reconfigures. 1 of 2 kids likes it. pretty spendy though its an exl and its 16k with 90 miles. What about timing belts and transmissions? This particular van is a CPO.
carknut wrote: In reply to Klayfish: Thanks for the quick replies, but SWMBO dislikes the minivan.
Tell her to GTF over it... superficial chumps buy SUV's over minivans if they don't need to rather specific attributes a large SUV provides (larger towing capacity, off-road ability).
<-- single, 45, owns a minivan - great for keeping my rather expensive bicycles out of sight. And as mentioned: portable changing room. I'm actually looking to get rid of mine. Not because I don't like it, but because I miss having a fullsize, raised roof conversion van.
carknut wrote: Have an 09 odyssey to test drive for the night. Pretty amazing all the ways that thing reconfigures. 1 of 2 kids likes it. pretty spendy though its an exl and its 16k with 90 miles. What about timing belts and transmissions? This particular van is a CPO.
timing belt is 60-100k (i think it should have a maintenance minder on the dash that uses complex calculations to estimate when it should be done, but will be between those). Transmissions seem to be a lot better than the 00-04 ones. At least thats what the internet would have me believe. You can get an extra transmission cooler right from honda (part of their towing accessories I think). It adds an air cooled cooler to the trans cooling circuit.
Wifey and I have an 05 ody with 160k and we love it.
(Side story) I recently bought brand new snow tires on steelies for it.
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