Yet another RallyX Car Question

captdownshift wrote: BG chassis, either mazda 323, Escort GT, mazda mx-3, protege.

Don't forget the Zetec powered Escort ZX2

I just bought a 318ti. They have one weakness. The limited slip diff is unique to the car and costs $600+ if you can find one. All the reasonable bolt on options bump you to modified due to a ratio change. In modified, you are either 800lbs overweight or 80hp short depending on how you look at it.

In reply to BlueInGreen44:

BP+T is the way to eventually make silly power in the BG chassis.

In reply to ojannen:

I think for someone looking to get started and have some fun a stock ti with an open diff would work well. Mine had a limited slip from an older 325(? I think) fitted by the previous owner. It was a lotta fun but the stock E36 318i sedan I had (open diff) was pretty good on loose surfaces too, especially with the right tires.

In reply to captdownshift:

True. I wasn't thinking about boost although turbos and silly power are excellent things to have as eventual goals.

Tom - nothing yet but possible email issues on both ends!

RE: 318ti, I love that funky little thing. All the ones I've seen locally have been autos though.

Captdownshift - I'd certainly be interested in whatever you have to offer, the Baltimore area is a bit of a drive for me from Woodbridge (although I'm super close to Rally Farm...) but I can come up this weekend and take a gander!

Edit: late 80s/early 90s Prelude too low/fragile?

ojannen wrote: I just bought a 318ti. They have one weakness. The limited slip diff is unique to the car and costs $600+ if you can find one.

That's not really bad as far as parts go. A diff for my VW is $1500ish.

Or you can find a 944 Turbo trans with a limited slip and scavenge the diff from it... but that's actually more expensive.

Cblais19 wrote: Tom - nothing yet but possible email issues on both ends! RE: 318ti, I love that funky little thing. All the ones I've seen locally have been autos though.

Even better!

The auto is a good thing? I know it can be helpful for turbo cars (really curious to see how a CVT Civic with the turbo will do at some point, always in full boost when in low), but didn't think it would be that great for a NA?

Knurled wrote:

irish44j wrote: and sadly, torsen-based diffs are pretty much worthless and are killed easily in rallycross, IMO.

I'll let the Englands know Chris Greenhouse ran a Torsen type diff in his Neon at rallycross and stage rally, too. I don't *think* any problems he ever had were diff related.

Didn't say they were "problems,"per se (though maybe I overstated them by saying "worthless"), just that they usually don't last as long and aren't as effective as a clutch-style LSD.

Also didn't say nobody runs them in rallycross/rally, especially if that's what a car comes with stock. But most rally setups use a clutch-style LSD if possible/affordable/available, to my knowledge. Torsen setups are in many cases superior on pavement, but clutch-types are generally considered better for loose surfaces. YMMV.

As to England......would love to know what that proves (nothing at all?). Miatas with open diffs are already plenty fast in rallylcross, moreso with any kind of LSD. England beating my heavy stage rally e30 by 1 second with a supercharged Miata with a torsen is hardly evidence of anything at all though. The car would be faster than mine with an open diff too (and he's probably a faster driver to boot). Buy hey, Vaughn crushed both of us in the 924 with a clutch-type LSD, so if winning is your "evidence" of which diff is best here, then..........

In my opinion, anything you can do to keep your head outside the car, so it speak, is Good. All the little things people laud as increasing "driver involvement" are not so good when you're driving competitively, as it also counts as "driver distraction".

This is a lot of why the GC 2.RS is so popular. They don't really seem to care what gear they are in.

ojannen wrote: I just bought a 318ti. They have one weakness. The limited slip diff is unique to the car and costs $600+ if you can find one. All the reasonable bolt on options bump you to modified due to a ratio change. In modified, you are either 800lbs overweight or 80hp short depending on how you look at it.

not totally sure, but I thought the e30 small case diffs fit the Ti just fine once you swap the half-shafts. I think for the medium-case e30 diff you may have to do a bit more work. Don't quote me on it though.

irish44j wrote:

ojannen wrote: I just bought a 318ti. They have one weakness. The limited slip diff is unique to the car and costs $600+ if you can find one. All the reasonable bolt on options bump you to modified due to a ratio change. In modified, you are either 800lbs overweight or 80hp short depending on how you look at it.

not totally sure, but I thought the e30 small case diffs fit the Ti just fine once you swap the half-shafts. I think for the medium-case e30 diff you may have to do a bit more work. Don't quote me on it though.

Quoting.....

While adding a LSD is legal in prepared it is not legal to change the housing or half shafts to do it.

Cblais19 wrote: Tom - nothing yet but possible email issues on both ends! RE: 318ti, I love that funky little thing. All the ones I've seen locally have been autos though. Captdownshift - I'd certainly be interested in whatever you have to offer, the Baltimore area is a bit of a drive for me from Woodbridge (although I'm super close to Rally Farm...) but I can come up this weekend and take a gander! Edit: late 80s/early 90s Prelude too low/fragile?

Since you are very local to me I suggest a mazda. Or anything but a BMW since we already have a whole class full of them.

Local RallyX mazdas come with access to a lift and tire machine in woodbridge.

irish44j wrote: As to England......would love to know what that proves (nothing at all?). Miatas with open diffs are already plenty fast in rallylcross, moreso with any kind of LSD. England beating my heavy stage rally e30 by 1 second with a supercharged Miata with a torsen is hardly evidence of anything at all though.

It's evidence that "what does it matter". They were faster than me when their car was a Prepared car. And going from a welded diff to an open diff didn't really slow me down any in the RX-7. I'm still a half second or so behind John E. lap for lap

moxnix wrote: While adding a LSD is legal in prepared it is not legal to change the housing or half shafts to do it.

Sort of correct. The limited slip must fit the stock, unmodified case (boo, no Positraction swap for XR4Tis, which requires case grinding, and it still blows my mind that a GM diff would fit a European Ford rearend at all...) but while the rules do specify the CASE must be as stock, it could be argued that the stub shafts are not part of the case and are parts that attach to the differential. After all, if you install a diff in a VW 020/02A/02J, you have to replace the ring gear rivets with bolts as part of the procedure for diff installation, right?

There are a lot of Mazdas (and Subarus, IIRC) with VLSDs that need stub shaft or inner CV swap when you remove the viscous diff, too.

Note: I am speaking purely as a biased competitor, not anywhere near in any official capacity.

moxnix wrote:

irish44j wrote:

ojannen wrote: I just bought a 318ti. They have one weakness. The limited slip diff is unique to the car and costs $600+ if you can find one. All the reasonable bolt on options bump you to modified due to a ratio change. In modified, you are either 800lbs overweight or 80hp short depending on how you look at it.

not totally sure, but I thought the e30 small case diffs fit the Ti just fine once you swap the half-shafts. I think for the medium-case e30 diff you may have to do a bit more work. Don't quote me on it though.

Quoting..... While adding a LSD is legal in prepared it is not legal to change the housing or half shafts to do it.

Oh, must have missed him saying it was for prepared...whoops.

Knurled wrote:

irish44j wrote: As to England......would love to know what that proves (nothing at all?). Miatas with open diffs are already plenty fast in rallylcross, moreso with any kind of LSD. England beating my heavy stage rally e30 by 1 second with a supercharged Miata with a torsen is hardly evidence of anything at all though.

It's evidence that "what does it matter". They were faster than me when their car was a Prepared car. And going from a welded diff to an open diff didn't really slow me down any in the RX-7. I'm still a half second or so behind John E. lap for lap

I would argue that it matters more on certain cars than on others. Andy Thomas we super-fast in his Celica with an open diff, though he's even faster now with the LSD in it. For some of the lighter RWD cars, especially running on relatively grippy grass, it probably matters less. But you were at Frostburg in the gravel.....LSD definitely makes a huge difference there. The one event where my clutches were all toasted and my 150k mile original LSD diff was basically open, did not go well at all lol.

moxnix wrote:

Cblais19 wrote: Tom - nothing yet but possible email issues on both ends! RE: 318ti, I love that funky little thing. All the ones I've seen locally have been autos though. Captdownshift - I'd certainly be interested in whatever you have to offer, the Baltimore area is a bit of a drive for me from Woodbridge (although I'm super close to Rally Farm...) but I can come up this weekend and take a gander! Edit: late 80s/early 90s Prelude too low/fragile?

Since you are very local to me I suggest a mazda. Or anything but a BMW since we already have a whole class full of them. Local RallyX mazdas come with access to a lift and tire machine in woodbridge.

Shawn wants more Mazdas so he gets more contingency money when he wins

OP, doing a search of DC CL within your budget, assuming manual transmission and 2WD (FWD or RWD), and pre-192 for vintage plates and no inspection, here would the top cars that I would personally pick, were I buying a low-budget rallycross car "in driving condition":

CRX, almost too original/nice to use for rallycross, really: https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/cto/d/honda-crx-si/6196415120.html

325e...lots of torque and an LSD, would do well in stock RWD. For that price, fixing any issue would not be difficult within your budget https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/d/bmw-es/6204668028.html

CRX, would have to be mod class due to engine swap but would still be competitive I bet: https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/d/honda-crx-new-tires-mpg/6198058689.html

325i...just find some stock springs/shocks and sell off the BC coilovers https://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/d/bmw-stanced/6214510713.html

more CRX...https://fredericksburg.craigslist.org/cto/d/black-honda-crx/6203066003.html

I see that Scirocco there. IDK. We had a couple of those run over the years and I do not recall them being competitive at all. YMMV.

My opinion is get a box with four wheels that isn't mechanically contrary and that you're comfortable with (like rear drive? get rear drive. like front drive? get front drive...) and has a wheelbase under 105 inches or so and go out there and drive.

At last rallycross we had, among 30-odd competitors, a Civic hatch or two, a Cavalier, a nonturbo DSM, a Z32 and an FC in Stock Rear, some Neons, some Miatas, a 944... Get a box with wheels and a helmet and go have some fun.

I'm more and more of the opinion that diffs don't matter much. I was only a second or so back per run in my PF car (with open diff and automatic) from the only AWD car in my heat, a certain black PA car on new tires being driven by a good driver who placed rather well in Virginia earlier this month.

moxnix wrote:

Cblais19 wrote: Tom - nothing yet but possible email issues on both ends! RE: 318ti, I love that funky little thing. All the ones I've seen locally have been autos though. Captdownshift - I'd certainly be interested in whatever you have to offer, the Baltimore area is a bit of a drive for me from Woodbridge (although I'm super close to Rally Farm...) but I can come up this weekend and take a gander! Edit: late 80s/early 90s Prelude too low/fragile?

Since you are very local to me I suggest a mazda. Or anything but a BMW since we already have a whole class full of them. Local RallyX mazdas come with access to a lift and tire machine in woodbridge.

lol! I don't have any interest in a Miata unfortunately - I already have a soft top vehicle taking up my garage. I'm interested in what Captdownshift has on the BG platform, any other Mazdas in particular? It would be nice to have somebody local to wrench with - although I do have access to the super-cheap 8 lift auto shop on base with a ton of nifty industrial tools.

Throwing a big "Thank you!" Out there to all of you for chiming in, this is one heck of a community you guys have.

I also just got back from taking my 318iC around the area for the first time ever, felt pretty nice - so the E30 might be back on the list. That black 325i swap with the E36 interior makes me want to hurl a bit .

I really want to go look at that gorgeous red CRX, there has to be something horribly wrong with it right? It seems almost too good to be true at that price point.

Knurled wrote:

moxnix wrote: While adding a LSD is legal in prepared it is not legal to change the housing or half shafts to do it.

Sort of correct. The limited slip must fit the stock, unmodified case (boo, no Positraction swap for XR4Tis, which requires case grinding, and it still blows my mind that a GM diff would fit a European Ford rearend at all...) but while the rules do specify the CASE must be as stock, it could be argued that the stub shafts are not part of the case and are parts that attach to the differential. After all, if you install a diff in a VW 020/02A/02J, you have to replace the ring gear rivets with bolts as part of the procedure for diff installation, right? There are a lot of Mazdas (and Subarus, IIRC) with VLSDs that need stub shaft or inner CV swap when you remove the viscous diff, too. Note: I am speaking purely as a biased competitor, not anywhere near in any official capacity.

I don't read the rules as allowing you to make any changes to the stub shafts? If they are not part of the differential where is the allowance to replace them?

"Vehicles may substitute one differential" "Differentials must be contained in a stock unmodified housing/third member" Nothing there allowing you to substitute anything but the differential.

Cblais19 wrote: lol! I don't have any interest in a Miata unfortunately - I already have a soft top vehicle taking up my garage. I'm interested in what Captdownshift has on the BG platform, any other Mazdas in particular? It would be nice to have somebody local to wrench with - although I do have access to the super-cheap 8 lift auto shop on base with a ton of nifty industrial tools. Throwing a big "Thank you!" Out there to all of you for chiming in, this is one heck of a community you guys have. I also just got back from taking my 318iC around the area for the first time ever, felt pretty nice - so the E30 might be back on the list. That black 325i swap with the E36 interior makes me want to hurl a bit . I really want to go look at that gorgeous red CRX, there has to be something horribly wrong with it right? It seems almost too good to be true at that price point.

I never said Miata. I said Mazda. I happen to also own an FC and two 3rd gen proteges in addition to all the miatas.

moxnix wrote: If they are not part of the differential where is the allowance to replace them? "Vehicles may substitute one differential" "Differentials must be contained in a stock unmodified housing/third member" Nothing there allowing you to substitute anything but the differential.

Go and protest every Volkswagen in Prepared with a diff in it, then, since the rules say you can replace the differential but don't say you can replace the fasteners.

The rules can not and will not ever be 100% spelled out, the intent of the rule is so that you don't do something like put an STi's R180 rearend in a WRX. Whether a protest would get upheld is up to whoever is the protest committee, and whoever is a weenie enough to be checking out axles on also-ran cars (it's a joke, son, I say a joke!)