You Need This: Willow Springs International Raceway

I love Sebring, but you can argue that today‘s Sebring is not yesterday’s Sebring. If you want to experience a ’50s track in its ’50s configuration, you have this, Lime Rock, Road America and maybe a few more. 

Hopefully this one gets saved. 

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

I feel like GRM and Haggerty should team up to buy it and then lease it out to clubs for racing on the weekend and for YouTubers to review vehicles during the week. 

or SCCA/Gridlife/etc. Given the varied nature of gridlife events having a place that can host a rock concert, a race, time trial, and drift event all going on at the same time seems like a great fit.  

VIR opened in 1957.

The good news is I seriously doubt the land is particularly attractive to develop.  There is plenty of other land closer to civilization so I'd imagine it is likely it will remain a motorsports facility. 

Tom1200 said:

David S. Wallens said:

I’ve been lucky to drive the big track (wow, it’s fast) plus Streets–totally loved Streets. Might have once set some brakes on fire there, too. 

So round about 1989 I rode a TZ250 there; my overriding memory is doing near 150 through turn 8. You'd ride the inside edge of the track and lean out over the dirt...........I thought it cool then but would probably wet myself now.

At least at that speed you wouldn't wet down the back tire.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

It took me about 4 laps to work up to that. 

Going 130mph on my 125 at Riverside was just as cool. Mainly because it was the same size as a Honda 90.

I saw a post on another forum that someone had called to ask about it.  Apparently they're looking for something like $35M.

jfryjfry said:

The good news is I seriously doubt the land is particularly attractive to develop.  There is plenty of other land closer to civilization so I'd imagine it is likely it will remain a motorsports facility. 

Agreed. There's very little reason you'd buy that land in particular unless you wanted the racetrack on it.

I just got an email this morning from a vendor I've bought a bunch of BMW stuff from.

Sounds like it might have a buyer, "The Drive can report that a Boston-based private equity firm named CrossHarbor Capital Partners that specializes in “property turnarounds” for commercial real estate is in the closing stages of purchasing the iconic race track."

Is this the type of firm that throws cash at fixing up the place in order to flip it? Or do they keep and run the things they turnaround?

In reply to Andy Hollis :

That description smells like developer to me, unfortunately. 

There's tons of other cheap as hell land out in lancaster.. it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy Willow springs to turn it into a not racetrack. 

but the facilities are OLD and lacking.. It felt worse than TWS did in 2013. 

 

spacecadet (Forum Supporter) said:

There's tons of other cheap as hell land out in lancaster.. it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy Willow springs to turn it into a not racetrack. 

but the facilities are OLD and lacking.. It felt worse than TWS did in 2013. 

Yeah, if you look at it on Google maps, you'll see that it's surrounded by empty land and solar panels.  If you want to build houses, I have to believe it would be cheaper to buy the empty land than to buy land with a racetrack on it.

I think it's more likely that they'll try to turn it into a country club style racetrack, like Thermal.  Build a bunch of luxury houses with big garages on the property, sell them for a couple million each, reserve a lot of time on the track for exclusive use by members, set up private race series, etc.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

spacecadet (Forum Supporter) said:

There's tons of other cheap as hell land out in lancaster.. it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy Willow springs to turn it into a not racetrack. 

but the facilities are OLD and lacking.. It felt worse than TWS did in 2013. 

Yeah, if you look at it on Google maps, you'll see that it's surrounded by empty land and solar panels.  If you want to build houses, I have to believe it would be cheaper to buy the empty land than to buy land with a racetrack on it.

I think it's more likely that they'll try to turn it into a country club style racetrack, like Thermal.  Build a bunch of luxury houses with big garages on the property, sell them for a couple million each, reserve a lot of time on the track for exclusive use by members, set up private race series, etc.

 

 

I was just out there in January.  Ran Big Willow and Streets.  Epic place, but yeah...super old school and run down.  Not as nearly bad as TWS was, IMO.

As for trying the country club route, I don't see anyone wanting to live there.  It's truly in the middle of nowhere.  Second home?  Maybe.  Thermal would be the litmus test for that, and I don't have a read on how that place is doing financially.

Much like TWS in the waning years, access to the facility is super cheap.  On Fridays, you can basically test all day for $200, plus a annual membership fee of $100.  Open pit lane, no sessions.  No corners workers, though.

Lots of journalistic exploits because of the easy access.  But getting there is still a chore.  And it's not really in Lancaster, which is the closest "city".

Andy Hollis said:

As for trying the country club route, I don't see anyone wanting to live there.  It's truly in the middle of nowhere.  Second home?  Maybe.  Thermal would be the litmus test for that, and I don't have a read on how that place is doing financially.

I don't have any inside information, but Thermal seems to be doing well.  I was pretty dubious when I first read about the plan there, expecting that within a few years they'd have to give up and go to hosting regular track days to make ends meet, but AFAICT that hasn't happened.  Of course, Thermal is ~ 30 minutes from Palm Springs, while Willow Springs... isn't.

Our local analogue is INDE Motorsports Ranch in Willcox, AZ.  Also middle of nowhere (2hrs East of Tucson), opened as a 'country club' track, then expanded with public access through trackday/race orgs.  They seem to be doing fine, and two other 'country club' tracks have since opened between Phoenix and Tucson:  Apex and Podium.  Apex is still private, but Podium has been open to the public through several orgs.

IMHO, WSIR is kind of a unique opportunity for conversion to a 'country club'... iconic race history, and reasonable proximity to the LA area.  If they can spruce things up a bit to attract the 'country club' set, and continue to offer track access to us 'plebes', that model seems to be working elsewhere.

I agree that normal 'development' seems unlikely, giving the surrounding property values.  As long as it keeps the track open and operating, I guess it's a good thing?

Well it's sold to a private equity group.  I'll be very interested to see what they do with it, because it's pretty well in the sticks which one would expect would save it from the fate of Ontario Speedway.  

In reply to Rodan :

And, to further this, Arizona Motorsports Park has also been sold. 

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

Well it's sold to a private equity group.  I'll be very interested to see what they do with it, because it's pretty well in the sticks which one would expect would save it from the fate of Ontario Speedway.  

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

Well it's sold to a private equity group.  I'll be very interested to see what they do with it, because it's pretty well in the sticks which one would expect would save it from the fate of Ontario Speedway.  

The Hi Speed rail link  is going right by the property , whenever that gets done !

californiamilleghia said:

The Hi Speed rail link  is going right by the property , whenever that gets done !

I'm going with "never".  They'll waste billions on it for another 20 years before giving up though.

californiamilleghia said:

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

Well it's sold to a private equity group.  I'll be very interested to see what they do with it, because it's pretty well in the sticks which one would expect would save it from the fate of Ontario Speedway.  

The Hi Speed rail link  is going right by the property , whenever that gets done !

Haahahhhahahahhahahahhahahhahahahah!!!

(that was supposed to be funny, right?)

I think the current numbers on it are something like: supposed to be 30 billion, take 10 years, connect LA to San Fransisco.  Currently, projected to be 110 billion, to maybe go LA to San Jose, (which will get way, way higher).  Status is: it's been 15 years, almost out of money, has yet to connect two small towns outside of larger towns 30 miles apart in the middle of CA where there is little use for it, with LOW speed rail.  It's the S-show of S-shows, it's amazing there has not been a major 60 minutes style piece on it, or a "huge fail" type movie done!  GIGANTIC waste of money.

Willow is so "out there", even for Southern California, I cannot imagine they would be able to use the land for anything other than a track.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

californiamilleghia said:

The Hi Speed rail link  is going right by the property , whenever that gets done !

I'm going with "never".  They'll waste billions on it for another 20 years before giving up though.

I agree , they need to pull the plug on this project , once they put the Palmdale link  it killed off the idea of "Hi Speed"

brandonsmash said:

In reply to Rodan :

And, to further this, Arizona Motorsports Park has also been sold. 

Yup.  We ran there in November, and that will be the last time for us.  I raced motorcycles there when it opened in 2003 and remember the initial shutdown.  We've been there pretty regularly since 2014.  Unfortunately, that property is too valuable and 'surrounded' to have survived forever as a track.