You wanted to know how Nissan sold the GT-R so cheap?

Apparantly, the trans is weak as hell. Seems like they learned a few things from Subaru about 'warranties' too.

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?s=e1fd8460f59723a576e211c361a92474&showtopic=25361&st=0

I'm not reading 25 pages of commentary, but how many transmissions have actually broken?

I read a few pages and it was up to 2 or 3. IMO, on any all wheel drive turbo car, the following should be printed on the window sticker, cover of the owners manual, maybe a sticker on the steering wheel, etc "The warranty on this car does not cover any type of drivetrain failure. If breakage occurs, you will be responsible for the full cost of rapairs, no matter what the cause".

Yup and Nissan is going to Void your warranty now if you use the Launch Control or whatever it's called. "Hey let's offer something from the factory but void the warranty if the customer uses it! ---Great idea man, way to save the company lots of $$$$$, we'll have a plethora of hookers waiting for you in a hotel room along with a small bonus on your next check!"

8,000lb car with monster engine and giant wheels has drivetrain failures when driven hard, more at 11.

I'd never buy a car like a GTR.

EDIT: Oh wait it actually weighs "only" 5300lbs, about as much as my two cars (With the Sammy offroad-geared) plus that super light black locost in Reader's Rides.

GameboyRMH wrote: 8,000lb car with monster engine and giant wheels has drivetrain failures when driven hard, more at 11. I'd never buy a car like a GTR. EDIT: Oh wait it actually ways "only" 5300lbs, about as much as my two cars (With the Sammy offroad-geared) plus that super light black locost in Reader's Rides.

No, it's not that heavy. I corner-weighted our test car. Off the top of my head, the number was closer to 3800 pounds. It's still no Miata, but it's not north of two tons.

You drive it like a race car, it will break like a race car.

If you can't afford to break your car, don't drive it like that. It's just not that difficult.

GameboyRMH wrote: 8,000lb car with monster engine and giant wheels has drivetrain failures when driven hard, more at 11. I'd never buy a car like a GTR. EDIT: Oh wait it actually weighs "only" 5300lbs, about as much as my two cars (With the Sammy offroad-geared) plus that super light black locost in Reader's Rides.

On the other while it weighs as much as both your cars, it has the horsepower of 5 of your cars. My fat but needs more than 100 horsepower to drag it around. (I know because the 78 hp I have now isn't doing it.)

I drive my street Miata like my Spec Miata. Nothing has broken yet, on either car, in over 2 and a half years. And it's not like the crushed shell roads here are in great shape either.

The street car has over 178k miles, the race car over 197k, both with the original drivetrain. It seems to me if you sell a car based on performance, and then tell those people they can't explore the limits of that performance, you won't have many customers after a while.

Remember when Subaru gave a free SCCA membership with the purchase of a WRX? Then, when people started autocrossing those WRX's, in stock classes mind you, Subaru wouldn't cover trans. repairs, and actually went online looking at results to find out if you autocrossed the car or not.

My dad always told me–don't buy the first of anything.

New cars always have teething problems. It's awfully early in the product cycle to damn the car.

racerfink wrote: The street car has over 178k miles, the race car over 197k, both with the original drivetrain. It seems to me if you sell a car based on performance, and then tell those people they can't explore the limits of that performance, you won't have many customers after a while. [/quote] Would you expect/demand Mazda to honor warranties if those were new cars?

I don't think Mazda ever worried that stock miatas were ever going to break their rotating components. The car was built for longevity and some sportiness, but not extreme performance.

On the other hand, the GTR is supposed to be a pinnacle of engineering and racing performance. I don't think Nissan is willing to trust amateurs to modify their equipment and keep it working for the 80k price tag. This was a supercar built on a budget, not a Ferrari.

It might come to light that Nissan built a poor transmission, but all I see so far is some people that didn't follow the instructions and their transmissions broke for as yet unknown reasons. I'm not going to join the dogpile on Nissan yet.

...and so far I haven't heard Nissan voiding warranties for autox use of the GTR.

^^ what kind of used ferrari can you get for $80K? No, seariously.

neon4891 wrote: ^^ what kind of used ferrari can you get for $80K? No, seariously.

alot, probably the newest would be an early 360. Good cars I hear.

neon4891 wrote: ^^ what kind of used ferrari can you get for $80K? No, seariously.

Lots. We actually have a Ferrari in next issue's "budget supercar" story.

neon4891 wrote: ^^ what kind of used ferrari can you get for $80K? No, seariously.

At least a few years ago, you could get a "driver" 308 for $20k. Even if they went up in value, it can't be much. Cheaper than a Pantera, anyway.

My curiosity is piqued, now. Off to the porn site, by which I mean collectorcartrader.com!

Entering a high of 80k and a low of 0, I see 90 results, the first 26 of which are "Call for price". After going past the replicas entered as Ferraris, I see a 1967 330 GT (misprint price?) and lots of Mondials, 308/328/348, and a 400i.

What a whiner :-). I'm nothing but amused. You sit there and abuse the piss out of a car, then expect the OEM to replace the parts you abused?? Was he not aware how hard it is on an AWD drivetrain to launch it like that (he should spend some time on STI's & evo drag race forums)? There's a big different between driving a car hard and abusing it. I don't rev my miata to 6000 RPM and dump the clutch, it's common sense.

And people wonder why we often don't get the a lot of cool cars that are sold elsewhere in the world.

zomg u meanz thatz if Iz launch mi awd carz hardz... .. it will ezplodez....!!!1!!1111!1!!1!!11

same thing that happend to the wrx. some nerds launch an awd car dragster style and the trans explodes.. ohh noez.. It's a rally car.

yeah the wrx trans is not the strongest.. its a freaking rally car. plenty of wrx's have made it into high mileage with spirited driving..

wait for the power of the internet to now perpetuate a rumor that these cars trans are crap, based off one thread in a forum that goes viral. dumb.

or you could disregard my poorly forumlated and executed rant above and read the following: A good summary of the thread would be.. "guy tries to break car and does.. Nissan calls him on it, much whining ensues"

ignorant wrote: A good summary of the thread would be.. "guy tries to break car and does.. Nissan calls him on it, much whining ensues"

edit: were I said frontier I ment titan A perfect summary. Also in my experience Nissan is generous with thier warranties when they feel that the problem is thier fault. Frontier rears, frontier brakes, 350 Z rear suspension/tire wear, just to name a few. I would gladly take nissans side on this if the abuse is documented. As a second thought though, If I were in the GTR development or marketing team, I would suggust making launch control a separate, nismo distributed option; leave all the software and whatever else in the car and just take the button away. Nismo is racing parts, no warranty, don't even ask.

Weak transmission or not the GTR still looks like ass IMHO.

Doesn't BMW's SMG allow you to use Launch Control so many times before it voids your warranty? Is the Nissan this way too?

Can you imagine going out on a test drive (after putting down a huge deposit, I'm sure) and the dealer tells you, "Press that button. OK. Now shift into Neutral, hold the brake, press the accelerator to the floor, honk the horn 5 times, and then turn on the windshield wipers. Now, RELEASE THE BRAKES!" Then you buy the car and it has no warranty.

Is this a problem that could have been fixed if they went racing first, developed a good drivetrain, then modify it a bit for road use, then stick it in your supercar? I want to write my theory paper on this but doubt my teacher will allow the use of the topic...

"Does building an awesome race car lead to a better street car, or does building an awesome street car lead to a better race car?" I know I'll have to take out awesome if I want it to be a legit theory paper...

Hey David,

Did you include an Esprit in your budget supercars article? They are a budget bargain, actually.

I have to say that if you build a car and market it as a rocketship that can smoke a 997, Z-06, etc... and you actively go out and place the car in a segment where people are going to punish it.... and you start voiding warranties right away when someone drives it that way you invite the bad PR.

Recall the BMW E46M3 goes boom! issue. Turns out it WAS a bearing problem and they ended up fixing all those motors anyway... but all I remember is that they tried to screw some guys early on because their motor happened to pop on a racetrack - even though it wasn't overrev'd or run hard when cold. If they had just said... OK, we handle this on our dime and back the performance aspect of this car - its free marketing from enthusiasts rather than 10yrs of bad press and bad resale on leases.

All anyone remembers is BMWNA sucked hard. Nissan should learn from that and tolerate a little a$$hattery for the greater good.