Lately they are all over my neighborhood ridden by pre teens or even early teens.
Seem decently fast and capable of 2 people.
So what do they cost? How well are they made? How fast are they?
Tell me good stuff and bad stuff about them. Please.
'Electric bikes' covers a huge group of different bikes. These days there are electric versions of pretty much any category of non-electric bike: cargo bike, mountain bike, road bike, city bike, scooter, etc.
If we step back and look at all bikes that have some component of electric-powered drive, we can split the entirety into pedal-assist, and throttled. Pedal-assist amplify your own efforts, and won't give you anything unless you are pedaling. In most jurisdictions, these are considered bicycles and allowed to behave as such. Throttled e-bikes don't require pedaling to go, but also often have pedals. They blur the line between bicycles and low-powered electric motorcycles, sort-of like modern mopeds. Governmental jurisdictions and insurance are still trying to figure out what to do with these, so your local situation may vary.
When it comes to the mechanics of them, there is a lot variety and some innovation (as with anything fairly new and rapidly growing) but we can start to understand them by splitting them into hub-drive and mid-drive. Hub drive have the motor inside the wheel hub. Mid-drive have the motor next to and geared to/belted to/chained to the pedal cranks.
If we take a 10,000 foot view, hub drive are often cheaper, can be a retrofit for an existing non-electric bike more easily, allow regenerative braking, and have good instant torque...but suffer in terms of efficiency, weight distribution, and increased stress on the wheels and fork/frame. Mid-drives offer great efficiency, smooth and quiet operation, balanced weight distribution, and better integration into a specific e-bike design, but are tougher to retrofit, and don't offer regen.
There are a few big players in the market for power units, as well as some small ones. Lots of bike manufacturers buy or partner with electric power suppliers and battery suppliers. Not many bike companies develop their own. This means that you can find Bosch or Shimano or Bafang powered bikes sold under many brand names, and vice versa.
Speed depends upon what regulations they are built to. Class 1 and Class 2 are limited to 20mph. Class 3 are limited to 28mph. The limits are just for the electric drive; the rider can go faster than the limit via human power if strong enough. Many bikes can be 'hacked' to exceed the manufacturers operating parameters. 
As with all forms of hotrodding, reliability will likely decrease, and risk of mechanical failure and injury is all on you.
Prices range from a few hundred dollars to fifteen grand or so. For an automootive analogy, do you want an unknown-brand, semi-kit-car, local-trip econobox, or the latest and greatest drive-all-day sports car or GT from a name brand with lots of cachet? 
They are tons of fun...just like a bicycle, but you can go further, or you can cover more ground in the same time. Don't forget that it is advisable to step up your protective gear with the increased speed. Helmets, gloves, and lighting to make you visible is a good start. Motor vehicles may not accurately judge your approach speed.
Oh yeah, cheap ones may burn down your house/garage while charging!
Im sure others will add more.
I like messing with the little Razor dirt bikes. Currently have a couple that the kids love to drive around the yard. I upgraded the suspension on one of the MX650s and running an overvolt to a 48v lithium ion battery. Runs along pretty good even with me on it.
I have a Lectric XP Lite. List price is $799. It isn't a high end bike but I am not a high end rider so it works out. It has a weight capacity of 250 lbs, but I have been over it and it seems fine. The range is on the lower side of the bikes I have seen but it works for me when I ride around town or around camp grounds. The XP Lite is limited to 20 mph and it can't be changed. The XP3 can be moved up to 28 mph. For me 20 mph is really fast on a bike, the electric assist messes with your head because it is so easy to move quickly. I absolutely love it. My other bike is a Sunday Model C, I like it too but I can't ride it any appreciable distance.
I havne't found the bad stuff yet, I strongly recomend it to everyone and I let anyone that wants ride it to try it out.
In reply to ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) :
Thank you very much.
Very informative.
In reply to ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) :
Thank you very much.
Very informative.
ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) said:we can split the entirety into pedal-assist, and throttled.
Actually, unless you build yours specifically, all eBikes can do this. My first eBike, a Sondors THIN has both a Pedal Assist Sensor (PAS, what detects your pedaling) and a basic throttle with 5 "speeds" based on how many watts of power it'll draw from the battery.
Governmental jurisdictions and insurance are still trying to figure out what to do with these, so your local situation may vary.
They are largely to Classes I/II/III based on speeds the bikes are capable of. The restrictions are good, but frankly a basic 750w capable hub motor or mid-drivecrank motor can hit level III (25+ MPH) no question.
If we take a 10,000 foot view, hub drive are often cheaper, can be a retrofit for an existing non-electric bike more easily, allow regenerative braking, and have good instant torque...but suffer in terms of efficiency, weight distribution, and increased stress on the wheels and fork/frame. Mid-drives offer great efficiency, smooth and quiet operation, balanced weight distribution, and better integration into a specific e-bike design, but are tougher to retrofit, and don't offer regen.
Correct, though there are plenty of mid-drives that aren't quiet at all
Many bikes can be 'hacked' to exceed the manufacturers operating parameters.
Many brushless hubs can handle above their rated power spec because of the volume of things you can do, both on the physical side (like motor heat sinks attached to the hub) and firmware/hardware, like having a controller that allows for field weakening. One of my geared Bafang hub motors is "rated" and was ran at 350 watts, but can handle up to 48 volts nominally; the controller I have can push 18 amps, so it'll make around ~620 to 650 watts and it'll have no problems with it.
Prices range from a few hundred dollars to fifteen grand or so. For an automootive analogy, do you want an unknown-brand, semi-kit-car, local-trip econobox, or the latest and greatest drive-all-day sports car or GT from a name brand with lots of cachet?
Eh, I prefer to phrase it as the difference between kit cars to something like a new Mustang off the lot, the difference being that this mustang is actually something you can reasonably build by hand yourself.
Oh yeah, cheap ones may burn down your house/garage while charging!
Mostly an issue of poor batteries, a bad BMS (or even NO battery management, which has been seen before) and charging way too hard. The rate of battery fires has dropped sharply, but nobody should ever charge one without being nearby and it should be attempted when it's at room temperature.
If someone is reasonably handy with electronics, you can also attempt to open a charger and modifiy it to output less voltage. Lithium cells really only go thermonuclear when they go above their max voltage of 4.2, because in chemical batteries additional voltage is just like pressure- eventually the container can't hold it. Many cheap chargers have potentiometers on the outputs, so if you find one and can reduce the fully charged cell voltage to 4.1 or even less (found by dividing the series of batteries in the pack by the charger's output voltage, should always be around 4.2 to 4.25v) and the BMS can still equalize the cell at that voltage, then you've nearly eliminated the chance of battery blowup AND doubled it's lifespan because now it's not working as hard. Of course this'll leave you with less range, but the capacity difference between 4.1 and 4.2 volts can be literally in the tens of milliamp hours.
My concern is at 265 pounds am I too heavy for them. Heavy work schedule and better diet have reduced my weight by 15 pounds but I doubt I ll lose much more before the summer is over.
My wife makes me look trim in comparison ( she won't tell her weight) so for her I'm sure we will need a electric trike. What are the weight limits on those?
frenchyd said:My concern is at 265 pounds am I too heavy for them. Heavy work schedule and better diet have reduced my weight by 15 pounds but I doubt I ll lose much more before the summer is over.
My wife makes me look trim in comparison ( she won't tell her weight) so for her I'm sure we will need a electric trike. What are the weight limits on those?
Unless it specifically says "weight limit" don't worry about it.
I'm not a fan of electric trikes. The single front wheels tip easily and rarely ever had differentials, so steering is also problematic.
frenchyd said:My wife makes me look trim in comparison ( she won't tell her weight) so for her I'm sure we will need a electric trike.
Hopefully your wife doesn't know about this website
In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :
We live in an area that is too hilly for her to pedal over to the bike trail.
Even I (at 75 ) probably could use a little help. But It won't work if she can't ride safely.
We need something to help her exercise. Currently we walk downstream in a river a little less than 3 feet deep. About a mile 4 days a week. But that ends next week. The water gives her some buoyancy saving her knees. The current helps her along. I'm there to provide her stability.
I figure we could ride 4-5 days a week until early November. Maybe that would enable her to join the YWCA and walk in the pool for an hour?
If it's not safe for her then I've got to come up with another solution, any suggestions?
Following this because I'll be in the market for one soon. My target price something 800- 1200 I won't feel bad about chaining to a post and walking away from/leaving out in the weather for hours at a time.
Pedal assist would be ideal for me. The faster the better. 28 sounds good, 20 isn't going to cut it. I'm not sure how range translates into real world but I dont anticipate any rides more than 50 miles.
In reply to frenchyd :
There are 1F-2R ('delta') trikes with a "Feet Forward" riding position, sort of like halfway between a normal 'upright' adult trike and a full recumbent. Worksman is one of the big mfgs, there are others. The FF delta trike should have somewhat better stability (CG is lower and shifted towards the axle w/ 2 wheels), and also they available with a seat rather than just a bike saddle.
The problem w/ a front hub motor losing traction is real: https://youtu.be/r0RxUV1rz20?t=600
Quite expensive, but there is basically a fat tire e-bike with dual front wheels: https://riderungu.com/product/new-rungu-dualie-standard/
I knew CO was working on an e-bike "rebate" program, looks like MN is also (but it is not in place yet): https://www.bikemn.org/e-bike-rebate-2/
Wow was that ever helpful. Thanks. She woke up at 6:00am and I showed her the video. Since she watched it all the way through. That indicated she was really interested . ( 10 seconds or less- nope!)
Next Saturday we are going to a local bike shop to see what they have in stock and see if she can ride it.
Again thank you for your help.
In reply to Oapfu :
The Minnesota electric bike rebate program is really big. My wife and I make too much to take full advantage of it but we still get the state to pick up 50% of the cost of a new trike and 50% of a new electric.
Those with more traditional income get a lot more than that off.
I have a Biketrix Juggernaut Duo 2 that is Canadian-built. It is a mid-drive, 1000-watt, fat-tire bike. It is rated at 350 pounds. It has pedal assist and a throttle. With both batteries mounted it has a 100 mile range. It has more than enough power to manage any hill. Top speed is about 30 mph, which is entirely too fast. It was about $3400. I have been very happy with it.
It is available with a step-through frame.
I will say, if you are buying it for weight loss, it's not the magic bullet you may think it is. I've lost exactly zero pounds from bike riding. They say you can't outrun a fork. You certainly can't out-pedal one. What it will do is give you an excuse to get outside and do some moving. I don't ride mine enough to justify the amount I spent on it but it is nice to ride a quality bike.
In reply to Toyman! :
At our age maintaining mobility is far more important than potential weight loss . But your point is valid.
In some climates or even at some times it could be a really cheap commuter.
I mean you'd have to decide for yourself if the ride is safe enough to do as a daily commute.
That might require rethinking your route to and from work. The way I normally go is mostly freeways and takes on average 23 minutes.
However there are residential area with bridges across the freeways that are mostly empty. Going 20-30 mph the trip would likely take a 1/2 hour or so. But there are outside electrical outlets handy to charge the bike back up. I've already asked and they have no objection.
The ride would be more interesting than the typical crowded freeway. Perhaps there is such a route on your route to and from work?
In reply to frenchyd :
Some days a bike would be faster and I actually looked into it when I bought my bike. Unfortunately, the roads around here are downright dangerous for a bike rider.
With the way Charleston is divided by the harbor, the Ashley River, the Cooper River, the Wando River, the Goose Creek Reservoir, and all the countless creeks, commuting routs are limited by the bridges you have to cross. That sends all the traffic down the few routes we have. There are basically 2 roads that move from Goose Creek where I live to North Charleston where my office is. Those two roads handle about 100k cars a day. Needless to say, it's a zoo and traffic accidents are frequent. Becoming a statistic is not something I'm interested in.
Funny this is coming up. I just bought two e bikes for me and the Mrs.
Mine is a Himiway Cruiser step through. It has a 750w rear motor setup and should be good for 25-30 miles of riding. For fatter, taller me (6' 225 lbs) it really is perfect. I wanted a budget e bike that was solid and this thing performs really well. New they are about $1400, but I found Himiways Ebay store and bought a "customer return" that had partially been out of the box but never fully assembled for $839 shipped to my door!! A bargain.
For my 5'2" wife, I grabbed a Lectric XP 3.0. It's powered by a 500w rear motor and should offer 20-25 miles of range. It's a folding bike, handy for putting into a wagon or trunk of a car. This model sells for right around $1000.
Mine is great for my size, hers is great for her size. Both bikes are well made and fun to ride. I've even posted some short reviews of both!
In reply to ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) :
I missed this thread the first time around, but would like to compliment you on a well written reply to him. Lots of good info., with out telling him to "put an LS in it"
Anything that I could justify buying, is out of my budget, but they've been getting reasonable, and the lower end stuff seems to be getting to be a bit better quality, as well.
Glad to see this come back up.
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