It's all about responsibility, what others have said.
It's all about responsibility, what others have said.
Eye patches are cool. Rooster Cogburn cool.
In reply to SVreX:
Honestly it is more about the independence. My parents are controlling about a lot of things so I claw at any opportunity I can escape that. The transportation aspect of it comes as a bonus mostly.
I can relate to your crash story. I also fully understand that gravel and t-shirt do not mix after taking a chunk out of my knee going downhill on my bike. I was going pretty quick and hit a small rock with my front tire and went careening into a gravel driveway.
Take a moment to read this https://rockthegear.wordpress.com/2014/01/15/i-am-my-helmet/ and please think about how quickly things can go wrong. I fully support the idea, just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into. I was fairly independent at a young age as well. I bought my first motorcycle at 16. It was a Honda cm 400, I'm pretty sure I didn't ask my parents permission to buy it. I just showed up at home with it one day.
NoPermitNeeded wrote: I found a place relatively close to where I live that offers a good beginner rider program. http://legacy.montevallo.edu/atsc/motorcycle/ When I pitch the idea my parents might ask me specifically what type of bike/scooter I want to get. I have researched and the best compromise of non-threatening and still cool I've found is either a Honda Grom or Ruckus. My question being, is the Grom too "bike-like" that it might scare them off of the idea?
The answer is not zx14r.
In reply to Nick (LUCAS) Comstock:
Damn. That's gruesome. It's stories like that where the result is life changed forever that will prevent me from doing punk stuff if I get to ride.
SVreX wrote: Turns out, I was not Superman.
Well, I did gain the power of flight for a short stint once but never the invincibility. When the YZ landed on me it hurt. A lot.
Hell, I've been riding for thirteen years, took the MSF course, wear the gear, ride responsibly and my mother is still worried about me riding. And I'm 48!
That gruesome stuff is what you need to remember.
I've got a buddy sitting in the hospital at this very moment with a broken ankle, ALL ribs broken, four broken vertebrae and two punctured lungs.
He can't even remember how it happened. All we know is that there was a corner and a guardrail.
No need to terrify the kid - corners and guardrails are known scoundrels and to be avoided at all costs.
Most motorcycle accidents happen because of a few rider behaviors. Kid... Read Hough's Proficient Motorcycling, chapter 1 on risk. Read the whole book, actually.
Eliminate the top risks and it's really as safe as anything we do that involves speed and danger. Which is to say... risky but manageable. Parents are risk adverse. I have two boys who are allowed off-road hilarity only. I do not play by my own rules. Never did. I should run for government.
Good luck!
In reply to Huckleberry:
I think there is a valid point in terrifying the kid. At his age, he feels indestructible. We all did. He should be made very aware of the pain that can and will happen if a motorcycle isn't ridden with utmost respect.
In reply to Huckleberry:
Be careful. I am completely with you about encouraging the OP and avoiding fear mongering, but this is not a true statement:
Huckleberry wrote: ... it's really as safe as anything we do that involves speed and danger.
Minor incidents that would be nothing more than a fender bender in an automobile can often be deadly on a bike.
The pitch has been made, all I can do now is hold my breath.
NoPermitNeeded wrote: Damn. That's gruesome. It's stories like that where the result is life changed forever that will prevent me from doing punk stuff if I get to ride.
No, it won't, you're young. Besides, that wasn't the problem. She wasn't doing punk stuff herself.
Life happens on a bike. When it does, it's a lot more dramatic.
What would be a minor fender bender in a car tends to hurt real bad on a bike. Lots of times, it's not your fault. But, it is your responsibility to be far more vigilant on a bike to prevent it.
So sure, not riding like a hooligan helps keep you from getting splatted. But that does nothing for the person who turns left right in front of you because they didn't see you. That's when you have to be hyper vigilant and responsible to see that they are possibly going to turn, likely to turn, and are indeed turning. And to have already done things to mitigate the crash. From using your lights, your horn, your handlebars, your brakes, your throttle.
This comes with practice, experience, and maturity.
SVreX wrote: In reply to Huckleberry: Be careful. I am completely with you about encouraging the OP and avoiding fear mongering, but this is not a true statement:Huckleberry wrote: ... it's really as safe as anything we do that involves speed and danger.Minor incidents that would be nothing more than a fender bender in an automobile can often be deadly on a bike.
True. But minor incidents on skis, rock climbing or leaping out of airplanes can have the same result. You can make all of those manageable risks though if you try. You can do the same with a motorbike. There are a handful of things that are responsible for the majority of crashes. Knowing what they are and training yourself appropriately brings the risk level way down.
I'm not saying it's ever 100% safe - but if you understand where the threat is and do your best to prepare you can greatly increase the likelihood you will die of something else potentially even more unpleasant. Like colon cancer.
google "motorcycle crash flip flops."
You're welcome. Now go buy some boots.
Tom Suddard wrote: google "motorcycle crash flip flops." You're welcome. Now go buy some boots.
Hey, it's all about the ride. 
But then, sometimes all the safety gear in the world won't protect you from your own mistakes.
My parents are 84, with six boys three of us have bikes. It's OK for me to hop in a plane with no engine, for my brother to run Formula Ford, no problem with Jack going to Russia; but those damn motorcycles ....
Here's a link to the MSF course near you, check it out. Paying for it out of your pocket will go a long way in your favor.
Good luck, Dan
http://legacy.montevallo.edu/atsc/motorcycle/sitelocations.shtm
The only thing my mom ever wants to hear about my bike is when I'm going to sell it. Mothers and motorcycles go together like oil and water - even if she permits it, she will never "approve" of you owning one.
I'd recommend starting with a project bike, because mothers seem to feel less threatened by motorcycles that don't actually run. Spending weeks/months/years getting your project into safe and running condition will 1) give your mother some time to slowly come to terms with the idea of her baby riding a big bad motorcycle and 2) show her the blood sweat and tears you are willing to invest in this endeavor.
I'll also offer a dissenting opinion on the moped front, I think they're actually a bit difficult to learn on relative to a small displacement bike as the dynamics are quite different. The small size of the wheel/tire package means you have a lot less gyroscopic force keeping you upright and they can feel a bit wobbly and unstable.
Another quip about mopeds, and this is not something inherent to the machine itself but more so the lower barriers of entry in terms of training/licensing, is that I observe a LOT of riders who don't have a clue when it comes to things like proper lane positioning and managing visibility in traffic. People ride them like bicycles, hugging the shoulder 100% of the time. I also don't think I would ever take a 50cc on a road with a speed limit greater than 35. A smaller dual sport with a low seat height would be my recommendation, as you could learn on it in the dirt (where you can experience the limit of grip at much lower speeds) before ever venturing onto the street.
Lastly, budget as much for gear as you plan to spend on the bike - it adds up. You NEED to cover ALL your bases on this front, which includes jacket, gloves, helmet, proper boots, and at the very least abrasion resistant jeans. All this stuff needs to be comfortable as well, you don't want your gear becoming a distraction while out riding. And ATGATT - learn it, live it.
Furious_E wrote: Another quip about mopeds, and this is not something inherent to the machine itself but more so the lower barriers of entry in terms of training/licensing, is that I observe a LOT of riders who don't have a clue when it comes to things like proper lane positioning and managing visibility in traffic. People ride them like bicycles, hugging the shoulder 100% of the time. I also don't think I would ever take a 50cc on a road with a speed limit greater than 35. A smaller dual sport with a low seat height would be my recommendation, as you could learn on it in the dirt (where you can experience the limit of grip at much lower speeds) before ever venturing onto the street.
A few comments on this;
In Ohio (and IIRC Maryland) at least, it is a requirement to stay over near the shoulder on mopeds.
http://www.motorizedbicyclehq.com/motorized-bicycle-laws-ohio/ said: While riding, you must ride within 3 feet of the right side of the road whenever practical.
I admittedly had one that could do 30-35mph (whereas ohio law says they dont qualify if they go over 20mph, but almost all do)
That is one area that I would agree on with more thought, depending on traffic, a small dual sport might be safer than a moped by aspect of it being faster. I was ran off the road several times on my mopeds back in the day and had a road rage-er pursue me, etc.
That being said, the moped may be an easier sell to the parents.
I have ridden a 150cc scoot once, felt weird just hopping on one, but I would imagine you get used to it.
I rode a moped when I was young.
It's been a while, but at that time they were required to follow the same rules as bicycles, not motorcycles. This included lane positioning, licensing, helmets, registration, everything.
They are too underpowered to stay with the flow of traffic- they were speed limited at something ridiculous, like 25 mph. You can't ride in the lane.
Huh, didn't know the laws were different in that regard. Guess I learned something 
That being said, I still think I would behave differently on one than how I see most people riding (i.e. more motorcycle-like). IIRC, and admittedly is been a while since I've ridden a moped, all of the ones I've ridden have been 50cc and I seem to recall 35-40 mph was about what they could do on flat ground, which is about traffic speed riding in town. Open road with a higher speed limit then yea, I'd probably keep towards the shoulder, but if that's the type of riding I was doing I don't think I'd plan to buy a moped.
The closest I've ever come to crashing was riding a 50cc scooter.
I was pushing it hard in a corner (don't want to lose ANY momentum, ever. The front wheel hit a dip in the pavement and skipped sideways about 4 inches. Scared the hell out of me.
Tiny contact patches suck.
Funny, my Mom got me into riding and gave me my bike. Last year she hit some oil in the road and laid down the sporty, scarred her and now she doesn't want to ride anymore. I've been down a few times and think it is just part of the learning curve, push as hard as you dare, crash, dial it back a notch. I think a honda elitist or a puchs might be a fun little mess.
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