Miata of Adventure bikes?

The KLR650 is the MTD riding mower of motorcycles. It's cheap, not terribly exciting, has many flaws but will generally always get the job done. It's also pretty easy to work on. My main gripes with it were it was absurdly tall (and I'm nearly 6 foot) and was no fun at all on the highway.

For the $1200 I spent on my ancient 1989? model, it was a safe bet to dip my toe into motorcycles in general and ADV bikes in particular. I still have a fondness for them, but don't want another. I can still ID one by the exhaust sound. 

My 'little' Scram does pretty much everything the antiquated KLR did but isn't as tall, is more comfortable, has a smoother engine, is more nimble, is still off-road capable enough for where I ride dirt and only cost $5000 with 300 miles on the clock. It's also not as ugly.  By the spec sheet it has no right being as fun as it is. I grab the keys to it more often than I do for my Triumph Bonneville. 

Not to sell anyone on a RE specifically, but it's funny how certain bikes will just pull you in where others, with vastly more impressive specs, will be a total yawn...even though there is nothing wrong with them (my departed V-Strom comes to mind). The nice thing about most ADV-ish bikes is they are pretty easy to resell should you not be enamored. Just don't buy new; plenty of used ones with not a lot of miles that, at minimum, will save you all the silly dealer fees. My Scram was a few hundred off MSRP, no fees, and came with a bunch of accessories. Another buyer's remorse was my ticket to a great deal.

" By the spec sheet it has no right being as fun as it is."

Well that's a pretty Miata-ish quote. 

I'm shooting for that segment that's decent on the highway  yet reasonably competent offroad because it would seem to blend the three types of riding that I anticipate doing. (in approximately this order of  frequency):

-Screwing around on the (paved) windy roads near me. My Velocette is excellent for this, and adequately quick, but not reliable enough and has crap brakes.

-Exploring fireroads in the mountains with the occasional non-technical singletrack thrown in.

-Hooking up with a couple friends who have big-bore adventure bikes.

Expecting one bike to do all this well may not be realistic, but I'ma gonna try and get close.  

You need to decide if you want a thumper or not.  Thumpers kinda suck on the freeway, I don't care which one you choose, but they're going to be better offroad due to their much lighter weight.  Otherwise you need to grab something like a Yamaha T7, which will be much better on the freeway, still be ok offroad but weigh ~100lbs more than a good thumper (ie, NOT a KLR).  On a long freeway trip I sometimes wish I was on my riding partners T7, then when I have to help him pick it up off road, I'm really happy I'm on my 690

Rodan said:

Someone told me this a long time ago, and I think it's about perfect:

"What the Italians call "character", the Japanese engineer out, and the Germans deny implicitly."

That's great.  I love my Italian stuff.  I currently have two Ducati 848s (I just bought a dedicated track bike), a Bimota db4, and an Aprilia RS250 (the Aprilia has a Suzuki engine tho).

Rationally, I should be tracking an R6 or 675R but I just like the 848 and I enjoy reading up on how to make it work better.  It's fun being the only one at the track.  I generally even enjoy maintaining it although I'm pretty sure I'll have to swap some valve shims this time around, which may cause me to re-evaluate that position.  :)

In reply to mfennell :

Back when I was tracking bikes regularly (early 2000s), one of my track acquaintances had a 748.  He got about 50% as much track time as most of the rest of us... that thing was always broken.  My Ducati experience wasn't much better (ST4S).  I still love the damn things, and would consider having a 900SS in the garage for a Sunday rider.  Probably not another 4v bike though... LOL.

My Scram 411 pic above was taken down in VA/KY. I was on a group ride with a bunch of internet buddies. 

Ridden in the proper power band my 24 horses of fury had no trouble keeping up with them in the really twisty bits. On long open roads, yes, they could leave me somewhat in the dust. But they were really no quicker through the corners than I was. I'm not a spectacular rider, either. 

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm shooting for that segment that's decent on the highway  yet reasonably competent offroad because it would seem to blend the three types of riding that I anticipate doing. (in approximately this order of  frequency):

-Screwing around on the (paved) windy roads near me. My Velocette is excellent for this, and adequately quick, but not reliable enough and has crap brakes.

-Exploring fireroads in the mountains with the occasional non-technical singletrack thrown in.

-Hooking up with a couple friends who have big-bore adventure bikes.

Expecting one bike to do all this well may not be realistic, but I'ma gonna try and get close.  

 

You're right, you're asking for a lot. Basically any venture onto single track will make you wishing you had bought the lightest bike you could afford, but on pavement you want that mass back for stability and you also want the smaller wheels for handling. 

If you toss out the idea of single track, with the expectation that fire roads are for leisurely sightseeing, you can have a ton of fun with a Vstrom 650. The SV650 is the miata of motorcycles and the strom keeps the engine with all day comfort, and it can hold its own in the corners. A versys will be similar but even more road focused. 

I've taken a strom on unimproved roads, it will manage. It's mostly a matter of "when" something happens, the potential for injury is much higher with a 470lb bike. 

DR650 or DRZ400 on supermoto wheels with a 80/20 street/dirt tire

We owned a multi-line powersports dealership for many years which sold Kawasaki, Suzuki, BMW and Ducati. Your question was tackled several times per week with customers either just getting into the sport or looking for a different type of riding. Whether it's looking to go off-road, touring, adventure touring, sport touring or whatever, the biggest question is one you need to ask yourself. Your initial post tells me you want one bike to do pretty much everything. You would need to figure out what percentage of each type of riding you will be doing. When people wanted an adventure bike and after asking them many questions, they usually mean that the extent of their "off-road" riding will likely be dirt/gravel roads not "single-track" woods riding. Choosing just one bike is all about compromise. Where will you be riding most? Likely for most it's on-road. If you can look toward the future and it's useage, what percentage of riding types can you see yourself doing? 50% on and 50% off? Of the off-road, what percentage gravel roads vs hard core in the woods riding. Once you figure that out, then it's time to decide where you would rather compromise. If you are going to ride 50 miles on-road to get to the area where you will be riding off-road and then only spend an hour or two covering 10-20 miles of dirt roads in a National park or somewhere, I would compromise the dirt manners for better street manners. That part is the hardest to come to grips with, just how much of each type of riding will you really do.

Over the years, my personal favorite has been the Suzuki V-Strom 650(DL650). The v-twin motor was originally put in the iconic SV650 and then the V-Strom. It's fantastic on-road and the torquey motor makes it great fun on dirt/gravel roads. This is where tire and tread become the limiting factor. The nice thing is, these bikes have been around for so long, picking up a second set of wheels isn't very spendy. You could have a set of street/touring tires and more aggressive "knobby" off-road tires already mounted up and ready to swap. Should only be 10-5 minutes to swap wheels/tires with basic tools. This would also allow you to swap sprockets at the same time. 
 

I've owned many bikes over the years and dual-sports were always my favorites. I enjoy riding back country roads, seeing a trail and going exploring. Single cylinder "thumpers" are best for this, but limit your ability to travel very far due to the ever-present vibrations. Now, DR650/KLR650 guys will disagree, but it's the truth, vibration will curtail the time you spend in the seat. KTM owners won't typically admit that their bikes vibrate at all, so be ready for them. 
 

I'd find a used V-Strom 650, but a second set of wheels and tires, a different rear sprocket and a bike lift. I would compromise the single track riding for much better on-road and dirt/gravel road manners, but that's the type of riding that I prefer to do. 

One of my regular riding buddies routinely flogs his ktm890 adventure through the same trails the rest of us are sliding through on 250-350cc enduros on. Then while the rest of us are trailering home he sets the cc and rolls on home. He swears it's the bike and not his ability. 

It's a combination of bike, rider and tires. I found the difference being that the larger bikes require work/effort to ride in anything technical, while the smaller bikes are just 'fun'.

One way that these bikes are nothing like Miatas is how many low-miles, barely ridden ones there are in my area. It's kind of like kayaks. "Boy that looks like so much fun!", followed by "I almost died today" or "I need something bigger/faster/more sexy".

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

Around here Covid made that even more so. No shortage of super low mileage/low hour bikes for sale in the last year. I used to search KLX300 and get 2-3 hits if I was lucky. Now I get more than 60

In my experience, the single-cylinder vibration concerns for longer rides and highway use isn't as simple as thumpers=vibrations that are limiting and twins=smoothness that allows one to do more/longer on the slab. How big is the thumper? Does it have balance shafts? How big is the twin? Is it parallel or V? What V angle? What firing order? It isn't a simple thing to boil down to one blanket statement.

I had a buddy with one of the BMW inline twins with a 360-degree crank who swore up and down that his bike had to be smoother than mine because it was a twin cylinder. 🤣

Does a big-bore thumper with no balance shafts and off-road gearing vibrate a lot on the highway? Yes. Does a modern high-end thumper with dual counterbalancers, weighted bar ends, rubber in the footpegs, and on-road gearing vibrate? Sure. But are those vibrations limiting? I'd say no worse than many multi-cylinder bikes I've ridden.

My riding is equal parts urban stoplight-to-stoplight commuting, exploring gravel logging roads and non-technical single track, and carving the twistiest of paved mountain roads. On rare occasions, I ride with buddies on Teneres/Africa Twins, and/or do a highway road trip. The KTM 690/Husky 701 is awesome for this use case. It is massively lighter and better off-road than the twin-cylinder ADV bikes, way better suspension/power than older 650s, way better on the highway than 250-400cc thumpers, and well worth the money IMO. If I could only have one bike for the rest of my life, it would be my 701 with Enduro and Supermoto wheelsets, hands down.

Whut he said. Singles can be surprisingly smooth. Also, each engine has an RPM that will make more or fewer vibes while cruising. Engines have 'happy spots' in their rev ranges and notable imbalances in others. My Scram 411 has no bad vibrations. My KLR was pretty unbearable on the highway. My ancient Bullet 500 is smoother than it has any right to be. My two parallel twins are not any smoother than my better singles. 

Another budget ADV option

CF Moto 450 twin

In reply to Peabody :

Will be sold as the Ibex 450 in US... seems pretty decent for the price.

For a new sub 400lb ADV bike coming soon, the Kove 800X Rally is a really interesting one have been following but it's not an inexpensive option ($14K). Bit over 380lbs wet weight with 5 gallons onboard and 800cc motor supposed to have ~100hp and ~65ftlb... lots of exotic materials on it over the standard $10k 800X to get the weight down. Standard version supposedly almost 30lbs heavier. 800X Rally little lighter than the CF Moto 450 Ibex with over double the power/torque... but also double the cost.

Fwiw, I was in exactly your position and bought a BMW single. It was the perfect bike to learn on, but ultimately I wanted to be able to comfortably run more than 65-70mph on the highway so I bought a R1200GSA. 

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/budget-adventure-bike-2009-bmw-g650gs/192442/page1/

We've moved to the Canadian east coast and lotsa of back road exploring that tends to end with a gravel road to finish the loop.

 For the most part even the paved roads aren't very good,our FJR1300 is a fantastic bike but not very well suited to life here.

 Wife is going back to riding her own bike and I picked up a pair of 1st gen versys 650's for cheap.

 They are very easy to find clean examples for 3k or less and pretty bulletproof.

 Shockingly good fun in the twisty bits,can handle gravel roads/fire roads just fine with the 80/20 Shinko 705's we're using.

 Gearings short so pretty snappy getting up to speed for a 650 and has a good intake honk in the upper revs and wheelies are easy peasy.

 Suspension isn't awesome stock,just had both sets of forks revalved for a more compliant ride.

 Rear shocks are now yamaha R1 triple adjustables cheap off ebay with the versys spring swapped on.

I'd like to try a KTM 690 enduro. I just don't expect to spend very long going in a straight line, and am willing to tolerate a little extra vibration in exchange for a big drop in weight and corresponding better offroad capability.  It also has dual balance shafts so it shouldn't be bad.  I'm used to a 500 cc thumper (The Vellocette) anyway.

Tom Suddard said:

Fwiw, I was in exactly your position and bought a BMW single. It was the perfect bike to learn on, but ultimately I wanted to be able to comfortably run more than 65-70mph on the highway so I bought a R1200GSA. 

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/budget-adventure-bike-2009-bmw-g650gs/192442/page1/

Small update: this bike is now for sale. I just posted it up on Facebook for $4900 including the luggage and GPS, which seems fair for a turn-key adventure bike ready for its next trip.

Price is $4k for a GRMer.