2001 Rav4 burnt transmission fluid & slipping during acceleration

Hi there,

I found this site after googling "burnt transmission oil" and found the minds responding to be very bright and generous, so kindly chime in if you could be helpful.

Here is what is happening. I live in LA, though I am in New Zealand at the moment, and my friend has my car in LA. I purchased the car 4 months ago from my trustworthy landlord, who had had the car since is was brand new. Before I purchased the car, I took it to my mechanic to look over to see if there were any issues or if he felt the car was a good buy. He came up with a about $500 worth of little things like burnt trans oil, dirty oil pan, spark plugs and the like, but he felt the car was pretty solid. I purchased the car for $5700. Two weeks ago, I did most of the suggested, including replacing the burnt trans oil, oil pan, spark plugs...

My friends sent me an email a couple of days ago saying the car was slipping, then struggling a bit with acceleration. She dropped it off at my regular mechanic to run a diagnostic. They arrived at code p0755 suggesting transmission problems. They said my car was still under warrant since (96 months or 80K). My car has 75 K on the clock. My friend dropped off my car at Toyota and below is the email they sent me with the proposed path moving forward.

"Hi As per our pone conversation here are the recommendation and finding for the 01 Rav 4

check engine light on code p0755 harsh shifting to repair we will need a ECM reolaced to setart with est $ 1040.00 if trans is still shifting harsh will also need to get a TRANS est $3485.00 other idems that the tech found was oil leaking from valve cover gasket.timing cover,crank seal ,reseal valve stem seal ,spark plugs, est $ 2899.00 ADJUST REAR BRAKES EST $ 48.00 CABIN AIR FILTER EST $ 70.00 THANK YOU TONI KUBINSKI"

When I asked about the warranty, he said this.

THE REASON IT IS OUT OF WARRANTY IS DO TO TIME NOT MILES. AS FAR AS THE TRANS WE WILL NOT KNOW TILL AFTER THE ECM IS REPLACED AND IT COULD BE SOME TIME BEFOR YOU CAN TELL. YOU ARE MORE THE WELCOME TO CALL TOYOTA AND SEE IF THY CAN HELP ,1-800-331-4331 I WOULD BE MORE THEN HAPPY TO HELP YOU AS MUCH AS I CAN TONI

My mechanic is pretty confident the car needs a new transmission given the burnt trans oil history and said if we cannot get Toyota to cover it under a warranty, he can do it for $1700 - $2000 and forgo replacing the ECM. My mechanic and I both smelt a rat when with some of the other findings. I mean, the spark plugs in the car are only two weeks old. Why would they suggest replacing?

I would love your expert notes on what you suggest I should do. How can I confirm that this is still under warranty because I am no longer in the time frame but am still under the mile requirement?

I also want to know that if the transmission is going at such a low mileage, does this mean I have a lemon and should expect other things to go in the future?

Thanks a bunch - I look forward to your responses.

Best - Mary-Lyn

I would avoid the Stealership. I'm a bit surprised a Rav4 is having these kind of problems.

Unfortunately, Toyota's are VERY, VERY, VERY, did I mention VERY yet?, finicky on transmission repairs. They are correct on the warranty, clearly you are out on time, even if the in service date was years after it rolled down the assembly line. I haven't meant a Toyota auto trans that has been worth the time and effort to fix EVER.

Poop happens. Not every "bulletproof reliability" (where is the rolleyes smiley when I need it?!?!) Toyota will go 2 gazillion miles between oil changes and have nothing happen. Things break. Parts fail. It happens to everyone.

In reply to The_Jed:

Then you haven't heard about the buybacks on them for catching fire then have you?

Those use an Aisan Warner trans, I believe, with a pulse width modulated torque converter lockup. The make fluid quite dark fairly quickly. I would suggest you find the best independent transmission shop in your area, and have them look at it. I would not be surprised if it ends up being something fairly simple, but you need a smart guy first. The dealerships don't always have a first-class trans guy on staff.

P0755 says its shift solenoid B. If the ECU is not commanding the solenoid, the dealer may be right. It also could be a bad wire, a stuck or electrically open solenoid, or a few other things.

Is it possible for your friend to park the thing until you get back, so you can deal with the situation first-hand?

I'm not a Toyota or transmission expert, but I'll put my $.02 in anyway.

75k miles seems very unusual for a trans to fail. Perhaps there is a known problem with that model trans, but you will need talk to the Toyota experts if that is the case.

As far as the warranty goes, all manufacturers warranties that I know of go by mileage or time, meaning the warranty expires when either one is exceeded.

The dealership's diagnosis sounds suspicious to me. Yes, modern automatic transmissions have ecms to control them, but it sounds like they are just guessing. Also it seems to me that if the ecm were faulty, (which can be difficult to diagnose), replacing it should make the problem go away right away. If they are making an educated guess based on past experience, they should have the decency to say so up front. The email that you posted sure doesn't sound like thats what they're explaining. And the service writer should be slapped for bad spelling & grammar. Since they're also telling you that you need stuff done that was just done, I'm just going to say that they are stereotypical crooks, and that you should not return to that stealership.

There is atleast one member of this forum that has run a transmission shop, hopefully he'll show up soon. (I think its Curtis 73, but I'm not %100 sure)

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I worked for a Toyota dealer and saw a couple of these. Certain 2001-2003 RAV4's had an extended warranty on the transmission and yes the ECM had to be replaced as part of the repair. The warranty is most definitely VIN specific. The warranty is 10 years/150,000 miles and an independent shop CANNOT do this repair at no charge, only a dealership. Toyota also states the root problem is not repairable outside of a factory setting. The TSB which outlines this is TC002-06.

The repair consists of replacing the PCM and installing a factory remanufactured transmission. Replacing only one or the other will NOT fix the problem.

Before you spend a dime at an independent, contact Toyota yourself (not through the dealership, call the customer assistance hotline yourself) with the VIN number.

I found Toyota to be fairly generous with out of warranty repairs, so even if it has expired by time on this particular vehicle you may be able to get at least partial assistance. But they will do this ONLY if it is repaired at the dealership! If the PCM is exchanged for an aftermarket or used part or has been tampered with internally, your chances of any assistace will plummet to near zero.

Burnt transmission oil should have been the first clue.

aka: run away fast.

HappyAndy wrote: 75k miles seems very unusual for a trans to fail. Perhaps there is a known problem with that model trans, but you will need talk to the Toyota experts if that is the case. The dealership's diagnosis sounds suspicious to me. Yes, modern automatic transmissions have ecms to control them, but it sounds like they are just guessing. Also it seems to me that if the ecm were faulty, (which can be difficult to diagnose), replacing it should make the problem go away right away. If they are making an educated guess based on past experience, they should have the decency to say so up front. The email that you posted sure doesn't sound like thats what they're explaining. And the service writer should be slapped for bad spelling & grammar. Since they're also telling you that you need stuff done that was just done, I'm just going to say that they are stereotypical crooks, and that you should not return to that stealership.

Sure, it is unusual for a trans to "fail" at 75k, but it happens ALL the time.

As to the rest, Toyota I think doesn't care or something when it comes to transmissions and their repair. Their repair manuals suck when trying to fix them. So fixing them when they are broken is just throwing darts at the dartboard or rolling the diagnostic dice to fix them. I can't wrap my feeble mind around the idea of having to replace ECM/ECU/PCM's to fix adaptive strategies or failed internal transmission electrical components.

Go, Curmudgeon. You win.

A further thought - If it turns out to be covered under the extended warranty, good. If it is not, you should be aware that a proper diagnosis involves special equipment, and a highly trained technician. If somebody gives you a free diagnosis, that means they did not spend the time required to properly test the system. I doubt you would get out of a shop for less than $200 for a diagnosis, unless you approve the repair, in which case that time will be built into the cost of the repair.

A free diagnosis usually involves a wildass guess done by a disgruntled flat rate tech.

Thanks, this was super helpful. Yes, I have read this is a recurring issue for this year, though it appears they only honor the enhanced warranty to the original owner. The Toyota dealership did give me a phone number to call at head office, so I will try and negotiate a discount.

I also read that I can remove the ECU myself and mail it off to be repaired and reprogrammed with a one-year guarantee for $250. Once I get it back, it's a 'plug & play' situation with the car starting. The symptoms they described on point with what is happening. Below is what they say they do. I recognize there is risk for doing this option, but if Toyota is not willing to give me a discount, then it is appealing.

My other question is the history of burnt transmission oil. Is this separate to the ECU or are these two connected? My mechanic thinks it suggests the trans needs replacing. It is feasible to change the trans and not the ECU? Hope this makes sense.

Below is from theotherdeal.com with regard to fixing the current ECU... The best choice is our professional service. We PROPERLY repair and reprogram your actual RAV4 ECM computer. When we ship it back to you, it will be ready to be installed and used right away ("plug and play"). No programming will be needed and no trips to the dealer. We do a high quality job and take preventive measures to avoid this from happening ever again.

Again, thank you very much.

Mary-Lyn

Thanks for this. Good to know.

In reply to Ranger50:

Ranger50 wrote: In reply to The_Jed: Then you haven't heard about the buybacks on them for catching fire then have you?

Nope, that's news to me. Then again, I'm not the most informed person out there.

Thanks for this. I have since learned this is common problem with this year and model. I am checking to see if I qualify for a recall discount.

I did find a web site that can repair and reset the current one for $250. I just need to figure out how to take it out and reinstall it. Apparently it is not difficult. They also indicated it might be something very simple.

Yes, I can have my friend park it till i get back, though it's not for a month and it was helping her have a car. Oh, well. Life.

Good idea to send it to a reputable transmission shop.

Many thanks - Mary-Lyn

Completely agree. Wish my mechanic had felt that way when found this before I purchased it. I paid him to access the worthiness of the car, which I thought was the wise thing to do. Ugh!

Cheers - ML In reply to iceracer:

My grandma has a used RAV4 awd and blew the tranmission up, guess it was on its way out when she bought it. The tech at toyota was able to get toyota to repair the transmission for free, wonder if there is a common issue with the ravs.

The problem, as I understand it: there is a programming problem and a valve body problem. Therefore replacing just one of the two won't fix it.

If the transmission fluid is already smoky burned, as in it has a burned odor, there is no way in h e double hockey sticks that a PCM reflash is going to fix it, I don't care what the web sites say. Burned up is burned up.

What happens: a clutch pack in a transmission consists of 'friction' plates and 'steel' plates which are applied by hydraulic pressure, it is the PCM's job to open solenoids to properly apply this pressure. The pressure keeps the plates clamped together tightly.

If the hydraulic pressure is low, the plates can 'slip'. Just like rubbing your hands together rapidly, this generates heat. This heat then damages the friction material on the clutch plates, the friction material is basically real fancy cardboard. Once it is burned and begins coming off of the friction plates, all the PCM reprogramming on the planet won't fix it. The only way to fix it is to diassemble the transmission and replace the damaged plates.

So if the fluid is smoky smelling and you have someone reprogram that PCM without repairing the transmission internals, you might as well burn that $250.00 because it certainly will not fix the problem.

Also, as noted earlier, Toyota says this is not fully repairable outside of a factory setting. This means if an aftermarket shop rebuilds the transmission and is not able to correct the root cause (and no I do not know the exact modifications necessary) then you have a ticking bomb just waiting to go off in your wallet again.

And there you have it.

My Rav4 yr 01 seem like having the symptom of ECM problem. Sometimes when the car accelerate at low speed or idle, it hard to move... the rpm will goes up to 2000-3000 then only it will slowly get the momentum again. Is this related to ECM problem?

My mechanic said it might be something wrong with ECM . He advised me to skip the dealer and to call to Module Repair Pro Inc (Van Nuys CA). First of all I had found the information about their service online (Web link removed) I also read the customer reviews. I had spoken with staff and they invited me for the diagnostics. One day later, they had diagnosed the problem and repaired. Prices are reasonable. I highly recommend

Why is it that people tend to ignore what the OBD is telling them. It said that one solenoid is defective. This in turn caused slipping, which cause burnt fluid. The transmission is now junk.

Maybe if it had been looked at when the light first came on the transmission could have been saved.