2nd Amendment

Strizzo wrote: the kid driving drunk shouldn't have to die for it. they should be caught and arrested. hopefully they can be one of those 7 people a year DUI checkpoints actually catch. when someone breaks into a home while the people are still inside it, i'd rather the "stupid kids" die than the innocent people about to sit down to dinner

Exactly. That's what I mean about playing a stupid macho game. I am not about to waste time trying to determine motives, empathizing with upbringing, etc. I'll do what I have to in order to protect my family.

If everyone is packin' heat(or at least may be) what idiot is willing to take a chance to hold you up, knowing that it might be his last conscious act? Pistollas for all!

Osterkraut wrote:

Strizzo wrote: that, and you don't shoot to injure, to stop, or to scare in that situation, you shoot to kill

Minor detail here, but you DO shoot to stop, not kill. I could shoot you with a .22 in the femoral that would kill you. With that fatal wound, if you were attacking me and a stage 3 BG, you still might kill me. You shoot to stop. Most of the time, that's center mass, and a kill anyway. Hell, if you shoot and miss or miss center mass, and the BG stops, mission accomplished. There's been reports of guys curling up into a ball and crying just at the sight of a "victim" with a handgun/shotgun/whathaveyou. I might have a longer post to follow, if I can put thoughts to paper...err...electrons.

well, i guess you shoot till empty or they stop, or both. my point was that you don't shoot someone in the leg to get them to stop, someone with adrenaline flowing won't feel the pain until several minutes later.

Because shooting in the leg won't stop them. Putting two .45 rounds (or more) in the chest probably will.

Again, I think we all generally agree, we're just arguing semantics.

agreed

Strizzo wrote:

Osterkraut wrote:

Strizzo wrote: that, and you don't shoot to injure, to stop, or to scare in that situation, you shoot to kill

Minor detail here, but you DO shoot to stop, not kill. I could shoot you with a .22 in the femoral that would kill you. With that fatal wound, if you were attacking me and a stage 3 BG, you still might kill me. You shoot to stop. Most of the time, that's center mass, and a kill anyway. Hell, if you shoot and miss or miss center mass, and the BG stops, mission accomplished. There's been reports of guys curling up into a ball and crying just at the sight of a "victim" with a handgun/shotgun/whathaveyou. I might have a longer post to follow, if I can put thoughts to paper...err...electrons.

well, i guess you shoot till empty or they stop, or both. my point was that you don't shoot someone in the leg to get them to stop, someone with adrenaline flowing won't feel the pain until several minutes later.

If the gun you're firing at their leg says DESERT EAGLE .50 on the side (and you've got some hollow points in there), they'll stop no matter where you shoot them. Can't walk if you have a 2 inch chunk of leg muscle missing, even if you don't feel it (you will). Boy, that thing will just ruin anyone's day if they're on the receiving end.

Bullet Tooth Tony proved that you don't even need to fire your gun when you have "Desert Eagle .50" written down the side.

If a desert eagle .50AE is being shot at someone, I'll be impressed if they hit anything.

Im terrible with a pistol. Cant hit E36 M3. I have to slowly aim and squeeze off a round. I cant imagine how hard it would be in a life or death situation. I bet i would be like the dude in pulp fiction who missed with his entire clip at like 5 feet.

Shotgun though in an indoor shooting range.... 10 ring every time.

Really, rex? I've always liked those DE's and I kinda want one with all the convertable options: 357, 44MAG, 50AE. I just don't have two or three large to pee off on stuff I don't need. Just did that on the Europa.

can you get a dessert eagle that fires off shotgun rounds lol

GlennS wrote: Im terrible with a pistol. Cant hit E36 M3. I have to slowly aim and squeeze off a round. I cant imagine how hard it would be in a life or death situation. I bet i would be like the dude in pulp fiction who missed with his entire clip at like 5 feet. Shotgun though in an indoor shooting range.... 10 ring every time.

I was discussing this with my girlfriend the other day. I told her: "A pistol isn't a real home defense weapon. A pistol is what you use because you can't carry anything else. The cops never arrive at a situation where there are guns and say, 'No, leave the shotgun and AR-15 in the car. We have our pistols. They're good enough.'"

Dr. Hess wrote: Really, rex? I've always liked those DE's and I kinda want one with all the convertable options: 357, 44MAG, 50AE. I just don't have two or three large to pee off on stuff I don't need. Just did that on the Europa.

Don't get me wrong, they are cooler than freddie jackson sipping a milkshake in a snowstorm. Gas powered rotating bolt magnum automatic pistol? I'll take two.

The problem is that unless you've trained with it, the recoil on something like that is out of this world. It would make initial shot placement and follow up very difficult to say the least...there is a reason that a DE isn't a service pistol anywhere. Furthermore, there's not much that a .50AE is going to do to a BG at 15 feet that a .40S&W, .45ACP, a good expanding 9mm or .357SIG isn't going to do to them. And you might actually be able to fire one of those without breaking your wrist.

9X19 isn't the world's most common pistol caliber because it sucks.

On the flipside, it's just like Salanis said. The old adage "A pistol is what you use to fight your way back to your rifle" is pretty much correct. It is my opinion that a shotgun would be a much more effective home defense implement for a number of reasons: Stability in aiming (Contrary to popular belief, you do in fact have to aim a shotgun) Leverage (useful if your assailant somehow covers the distance on you and gets his mitts on your weapon) Ease of use (I know each goes bang when you pull the trigger, but my guess is that aiming and shooting a shotgun or rifle is alot more intuitive for most people than a handgun) Stopping power (In close range, which is better: 1 .30 caliber hole or 10 of them?) and finally, Intimidation. People always talk about the "racking sound scaring people off" and I think it's kind of bogus, but I do imagine that people's balls shrink fairly quickly with a big 12 gauge bore in their face.

Not only that, but recoil is a non issue for smaller framed individuals with a properly sized shotgun. My wife is not a very big person, but she has no problems firing her 20 gauge. A .357 revolver or a .50AE desert eagle? She'd probably hit herself in the face.

You don't realize how big a .50 Desert Eagle is until you hold it, or compare one of the rounds to a .45. It's unbelievable how big that thing is. I've got a friend who has one. I've never fired it, but he did show it to me last time I was at his house. We've not been shooting since he got it. I'm curious to try it out.

therex wrote: A .357 revolver or a .50AE desert eagle? She'd probably hit herself in the face.

Like this?

billy3esq wrote: You don't realize how big a .50 Desert Eagle is until you hold it, or compare one of the rounds to a .45. It's unbelievable how big that thing is. I've got a friend who has one. I've never fired it, but he did show it to me last time I was at his house. We've not been shooting since he got it. I'm curious to try it out.

Indeed, you really need something like this to get a sense of how utterly huge it is:

(Desert Eagle up top, M1911 At the bottom -- I think a para ordinance)

A Desert Eagle is a goddamn hand cannon. I want one really bad (to hunt with, to be honest) but I don't have that kind of scratch to blow on a pretty pistol.

I hear we're talking about Desert Eagles! Let me weigh in on this weighty subject.

A few cons:

They're huge. Flat-out huge. If you were to carry one on a regular basis, it'd give you hip problems!

They're finicky to the point of being unreliable. The saying goes that a Desert Eagle will at least be REALLY LOUD for that first (and only) shot it gets off.

The pro: Being weighty, and gas powered, they're easy to shoot. I shot the .44 Mag variant, easy as pie. The problem is, it was shoot, clear the jam, shoot, clear jam, clear jam, shoot, etc, etc.

I'd take one if given to me. Would I keep it on the nightstand? Hell no, I want a handgun that goes off every time I hit the bang-switch. Would I ever, ever spend the 2k+ on one? Once I develop the money tree, MAYBE. It's low on a long list, though...

If you want the bad guy to be staring down a HUGE hole, there's a company making a Glock conversion for a round called the .50 GI. Don't know anything past that, though....

Salanis wrote:

therex wrote: A .357 revolver or a .50AE desert eagle? She'd probably hit herself in the face.

Like this?

Not sure which is funnier; the chick hitting herself in the face, or the guy's t-shirt. Classy.

If she'd tried to double-tap, I think she would have blown the top of her own head off.

DAng, Can ya find a chick with skinnyer arms? She needs to drive with the PS belt off for a while!

LOL Just kiddin'

The best gun to have ? Is the one you know. Remember the old saw: Beware of the guy with only one gun.

And remember to have it with you... 24/7

Home on the nightstand won't help on the street

I've fired the .50 variety. It may be my next gun. It shakes your heart, every single empty round pops out and hits you in the same spot: right above your left eyebrow; and the muzzle flash is so bright that you can't see anything else (even if someone down the street is firing one - indoors).

That said: it's not nearly what you guys seem to think. It's heavy, so it retains a lot of the recoil for you. I only noticed that my trigger finger kept bumping the trigger guard after each shot. Yeah, and I had a tiny cut from where the shells kept hitting me (right above the glasses).

500 Smith and Wesson is a larger round still. That gun scares the E36 M3 out of me. I fired one load (5 rounds) from one once. That was enough.

Yeah, I think those DE's are cool, and that's about the only reason I'd want one. Is it as cool as my Europa whcih cost about the same? Don't think so, which is why I have an Europa and not a DE right now, I guess. I really don't need a DE, but then I really didn't need an Europa either. I needed an Esprit. Funny how those DE's never jam on TV. Must just be a coincidence.

Personally, my home defense guns are a SKS and a AKM. My vehiclular defense weapons are Helwans. You can see I have a utilitarian weapon theme going.

Hah. If I bought two pistols, the other would be a Kimber 1911. That is one pistol that you just hold by your side, casually look at what you want to shoot, raise to eye level, and fire. I took out the little X at 25 feet without aiming. Every shot after was within an inch. I can't do that with my 9mm.

Osterkraut wrote: I hear we're talking about Desert Eagles! Let me weigh in on this weighty subject. A few cons: They're huge. Flat-out huge. If you were to carry one on a regular basis, it'd give you hip problems! They're finicky to the point of being unreliable. The saying goes that a Desert Eagle will at least be REALLY LOUD for that first (and only) shot it gets off. The pro: Being weighty, and gas powered, they're easy to shoot. I shot the .44 Mag variant, easy as pie. The problem is, it was shoot, clear the jam, shoot, clear jam, clear jam, shoot, etc, etc. I'd take one if given to me. Would I keep it on the nightstand? Hell no, I want a handgun that goes off every time I hit the bang-switch. Would I ever, ever spend the 2k+ on one? Once I develop the money tree, MAYBE. It's low on a long list, though... If you want the bad guy to be staring down a HUGE hole, there's a company making a Glock conversion for a round called the .50 GI. Don't know anything past that, though....

my grandfather did some contract work for IMI and one of the things they gave him was a .50 AE DE. i've only seen it once, and remember him saying that he can't shoot it because theres a brace that you're supposed to wear so that it doesn't break your wrist. i didnt know what it was at the time, but all i remember was it was HUGE

poopshovel wrote: Not sure which is funnier; the chick hitting herself in the face, or the guy's t-shirt. Classy.

The bikini top with camo cargo pants is equally classy.

BTW, we need a "roll-eyes" smiley.