? about Ft Hood

Yesterday's reports were saying there were at least 3 perpetrators (1 in custody, + 2 more), and they were using the word "shootings", implying both more than one shooting and an orchestrated effort.

Today they are saying 1 shooter, and using the singular "shooting", although they are still slipping back to the plural "shootings".

What happened?

All that is being released (that I have seen, anyway) is that it was an Army psychiatrist (Maj.) who went on a bit of a rampage in the SRC. 12 were killed and 31 were injured.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/05/texas.fort.hood.shootings/index.html

Here is one of the many articles about it.

At this point, I think they are still trying to put the pieces together. More complete info will be out later. A lot of the "news" is just speculation with reporters trying to out scoop each other.

Early reports seemed to take the angle of there being an "attack" on Fort Hood.
Then the reports swithced to "it was one of our own."
Now there seems to be an attempt to provide distance so as to clear the idea that he was not "one of our own."

While a terrible tragedy, I'm more OK with "one of our own" than with several of our own

I heard a report that said this was in a "gun free" area of the base. If so, it makes a good case not only for concealed carry but removal of the gun ban. No one would walk in and start shooting if they knew it would be instant suicide.

Here was a guy with documented psychological problems who was ranting on the internet about suicide bombers being heroes. Not only was he allowed to walk around a military base with loaded guns, but they were going to ship him out to Iraq on our side!

Somebody in the military bureaucracy screwed up big time.

He was under investigation for those rantings prior to this incident. If they had conclusive evidence against him in this regard, he likely wouldn't have gotten to this point. So at this point it is far from a certainty that those rantings are his.

As for removing the gun ban; I don't think anyone that contemplates doing this thinks a whole lot about whether they'll survive the encounter or not. I would think they expect to die. I think the term is called "suicide by police".

I for one hope he survives his trip to the hospital, because I don't think he intended to live through this rampage. I want him to rot in prison for the rest of his days. In cases like this death is too merciful punishment for the criminal.

Snowdoggie wrote: Here was a guy with documented psychological problems who was ranting on the internet about suicide bombers being heroes. Not only was he allowed to walk around a military base with loaded guns, but they were going to ship him out to Iraq on our side! Somebody in the military bureaucracy screwed up big time.

Not proven it was him ranting. Investagators believe it was someone else with the same name. A relatively common occurence among muslim names. But they are investagating just in case. A case of the news jumping on anything they can to scoop each other. Again not uncommon.

sachilles wrote: He was under investigation for those rantings prior to this incident. If they had conclusive evidence against him in this regard, he likely wouldn't have gotten to this point. So at this point it is far from a certainty that those rantings are his.

Whether the rantings were his or not, shouldn't they at least held off on shipping him to Iraq until they knew for sure?

He wasn't gone yet(and they were to be shipped to Afghanistan). As stated above, there was no conclusive evidence that it was him. If he was deemed a threat prior to the incident, he would have been detained.

While this is tragic, I think we'll find that the guy was just plain nuts. I don't think it was some sort elaborate terror plot. I think we'll find that he was a military officer that ultimately snapped. With any luck we can interrogate him to find the answers.

I want to agree with sachilles. But, as we know, that story does not get much "play" so I suspect that we will endure days of other "possibilities."

News 8 here in Dallas just reported the internet posts as a 'fact'. You just can't trust the media.

triumph7 wrote: I heard a report that said this was in a "gun free" area of the base. If so, it makes a good case not only for concealed carry but removal of the gun ban. No one would walk in and start shooting if they knew it would be instant suicide.

Look at Miami's crime rate from 10-20 years ago, and look at it for the last few years. I don't have the numbers in front of me right now, but iirc something like 1 in 7 or 8 people in Miami has a concealed carry permit, that combined with the stand your ground laws, has made Florida a very unforgiving place for violent crime. Not saying it doesn't happen, but just as often you hear of someone blowing away the guy who tried to rape/rob/go on a rampage etc. Handgun bans need to go, they only give the bad guys the guns. I know it would be expensive but mandating a training class quarterly for concealed carry permit holders would make a ton of sense, you could even pass some of the cost on to the permit holders, say 50$ for a 1 day class, split it between classroom and range, law enforcement has to requalify at least once a year if not more often, and they are EXPECTED to put in range time on their own. I know alot of handgun owners that purchase a weapon, take it to the range, and then quit going. GUN CONTROL IS HITTING WHAT YOU AIM AT!

ok rant over

Glad someone finally brought it up. I've been thinking some pretty horrible things over the last several hours. Let's just all say a prayer that Officer Kimberly Munley recovers enough to suit up and finish the job. Then we can all take a road trip to wherever he's burried, consuming massive amounts of pork skins the whole way, and...well...you know the rest.

That's how it works in my head anyway. I suppose the more likely scenario is that the murderer will get some high-power attorney whose name reads like an eyechart, and the taxpayers will foot the bill for the DA's long, painful, drawn-out battle in court, just like they paid for his food, education, not to mention the medical treatment he's getting in the hospital right now.

See you in hell, motherberkeleyer.

PS: Sorry, I'm still pissed, and probably will be for a long, long time, but whatever happened to the good old days when we rounded up the enemy and stuck them in internment camps? You know, just till things "calmed down" a little.

The guy has survived. He is going to be so pissed when he wakes up and doesn't have his 72 virgins around him.

I hear the police officer has survived too.

Apparently the "shootings" reports came from the fact that he may have shot up two locations.

Does the Army still hang people or use a firing squad?

@poopshovel So your advocating throwing all muslims in this country into forced internment camps?

Military base=Military legal system? Therefore he may not get the easy out that our legal system seems to offer folks. That being said, I don't think he'd get away with it in the regular legal system even with Johnny Cochran as his attorney.

Do they still have space at Gitmo?

sachilles said: Military base=Military legal system

Yes, he will fall under the Uniform Code of Military Justice or UCMJ and there is very little room in the UCMJ for those who murder their own. He will not walk away from this.

Thankfully

He was an employee and active military working on the base. He will get a military trial, a court marshall and whatever comes with that.

It will fit the crime.

GlennS wrote: @poopshovel So your advocating throwing all muslims in this country into forced internment camps?

Nah. Just being an overly reactionary asshat. Does seem as though there were plenty of overlooked "warning signs" that would indicate he was a threat though.

Regarding some of the earlier speculation as to who said what and when, some quotes from the Associated Press, as of this morning:

The AP said: Soldiers reported that the gunman shouted "Allahu Akbar!" — an Arabic phrase for "God is great!" — before opening fire, said Lt. Gen. Robert Cone, the base commander. He said officials had not yet confirmed that Hasan made the comment. Col. Steve Braverman, the Fort Hood hospital commander, said early Friday that Hasan was on deployment orders to Afghanistan. A military official later told The Associated Press that Hasan was to be deployed to Iraq. It was not immediately possible to verify the discrepancy. The military official, who did not have authorization to discuss the matter publicly and spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity, said Hasan had indicated he didn't want to go to Iraq but was willing to serve in Afghanistan. Cone said authorities have not yet been able to talk to Hasan, but interviews with witnesses went through the night. Retired Col. Terry Lee told Fox News said Hasan had hoped President Barack Obama would pull troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq and got into frequent arguments with others in the military who supported the wars. Faizul Khan, a former imam at a mosque Hasan attended in Silver Spring, Md., said "I got the impression that he was a committed soldier." He said Hasan attended prayers regularly at the mosque in Silver Spring, Md., and was a lifelong Muslim. He spoke often with Hasan about Hasan's desire for a wife. In an interview with The Washington Post, Hasan's aunt, Noel Hasan of Falls Church, Va., said he had been harassed about being a Muslim in the years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, and he wanted out of the Army. "Some people can take it and some people cannot," she said. "He had listened to all of that and he wanted out of the military." At least six months ago, Hasan came to the attention of law enforcement officials because of Internet postings about suicide bombings and other threats, including posts that equated suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades. Investigators had not determined for certain whether Hasan was the author of the posting, and a formal investigation had not been opened before the shooting, said law enforcement officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss the case. Federal authorities seized Hasan's computer Friday during a search of his apartment, said a military official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation.

Here's what the UCMJ says about Murder:

UCMJ Article 118 said: Any person subject to this chapter whom without justification or excuse, unlawfully kills a human being, when he-- (1) has a premeditated design to kill; (2) intends to kill or inflict great bodily harm; (3) is engaged in an act which is inherently dangerous to others and evinces a wanton disregard of human life; or (4) is engaged in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of burglary, sodomy, rape, robbery, or aggravated arson; is guilty of murder, and shall suffer such punishment as a court-martial may direct, except that if found guilty under clause (1) or (4), he shall suffer death or imprisonment for life as a court-martial may direct.

Looks like there are really only two options and Leavenworth is not a pleasant place...

DustoffDave wrote: Here's what the UCMJ says about Murder:

UCMJ Article 118 said: Any person subject to this chapter whom without justification or excuse, unlawfully kills a human being, when he-- (1) has a premeditated design to kill; (2) intends to kill or inflict great bodily harm; (3) is engaged in an act which is inherently dangerous to others and evinces a wanton disregard of human life; or (4) is engaged in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of burglary, sodomy, rape, robbery, or aggravated arson; is guilty of murder, and shall suffer such punishment as a court-martial may direct, except that if found guilty under clause (1) or (4), he shall suffer death or imprisonment for life as a court-martial may direct.

Looks like there are really only two options and Leavenworth is not a pleasant place...

Sounds good to me. Letting the cop put two to the head isn't "cruel or unusual," is it?