Afterlife?

Do you believe there is an afterlife?

If so, how do you justify/prove/believe in it?

If not, how do you live day-to-day without completely breaking down?

Looking for just a good conversation here, no need to dip into religion or try to convince anybody of one way or the other. Just trying to see what other people's (whom I respect) thoughts were on the subject.

Going through some personal stuff with the imminent arrival of Javelin Jr, and I'm told it's normal.

Thanks for the discussion, I may be reading this at 2AM if I don't sleep... again.

All matter is preserved, so there's continuation of the stuff I'm made up from. It's been around 14 billion years or so, should be around a fair bit longer unless the mayan calendar-misinterpreting whack jobs are right - then I've got about a year left. On a quantum physics side of things, there are some who think it could be possible to have an existence or consciousness outside of the body - perhaps in a different plane/dimension. No substantial proof of that - I'd recommend making the most of the life you know about - live life like it's the only one you get.

Do you believe there is an afterlife? NO!

If so, how do you justify/prove/believe in it? No need, doesn't exist.

If not, how do you live day-to-day without completely breaking down? Easy Peasy Lemon Squeazy. Making lemonade at every possible opportunity.

Nah, I don't believe in it, and I'm just fine that way. I try to extract every possible thing from my time here.

They say you really die twice, the first time when you stop breathing, and the second time when your name is spoken for the last time.

I live every day like I am trying to prolong my second death.

nope.

I think the best answer is from the extended version of the operatives coda with Mal in Serenity
Operative: "How could you go on?"
Mal: "If you're still standing there when that engine starts, you never will find out."
(Don't freeze up trying to ponder everything. If you do, you'll never cope/survive. just try to do your best each day and keep moving)

[Edit. I just listened to the director's commentary. Joss says, "You just keep walking. I'm not going to tell you how to live, and that's how you live. You just keep walking.ep He's answering the question by not answering it.]]

1.) No.

3.) By seizing the one life I do have, and reveling within every little nook & cranny of it. Watch that sunset. Hell, watch a sunrise, if you stay up late enough.. Feel the diff lock on corner exit, and enjoy the ride up the straight. Don't just swallow the sushi..run it around inside your mouth with your tongue and taste it. Buy the expensive Scotch/Wine/Beer/Tequila/etc. every once in awhile, and smell it before you drink it.

Most important: Tell the people you love that you love them. Tell the people you hate to berkeley off, because you're too busy to darken your day with that E36 M3.

Listen to your parents' & grandparents' stories..remember them well enough that you can tell them to your kid. Listen to your kid's laughter. Get your friends to tell their stories about you while you're still alive to hear it..and tell them your stories about them afterwards.

Last tip..sleep when the baby sleeps, that's the only chance you'll have for it.

I don't think it matters what I believe or not. I kind of like to believe in some form of reincarnation (whether we have an eternal soul that inhabits new forms, or add to some cosmic consciousness, or what). I don't worry about it because whatever is is. Whatever I believe doesn't change that.

Can't prove one way or the other what will happen after. As for reincarnation, similar reasons to the conservation of energy type angle as Oldtin suggested.

I think life is good and really enjoy living it. I want to leave the world a bit better than I found it. If there is something after, great. If there is nothing else beyond this life, I figure I should enjoy it and help other people enjoy it while they have the chance. Worrying about it won't change what happens.

Oh, and Beer. Beer helps.

Do you believe there is an afterlife?

Yes.

If so, how do you justify/prove/believe in it?

I can't prove either way. I think we exist physically (bound by time and space), mentally (not bound by time, space, or the laws of physics), and spiritually (not bound by time, space, or the laws of physics). I'm sure you can think of people who spend far too much time in at least one of those realms.

If not, how do you live day-to-day without completely breaking down?

I believe in God. Without that, I think I would either give up and live gratuitously self-indulgent, or go on a shooting rampage (which is probably the same thing).

I still struggle a lot with the whole purpose of life thing, and I think I'm not alone on that one. My recent thoughts are that our physical existence is more a training ground for the hereafter. Life is intended to get you thinking and acting in a mentally-and-spirtually-minded sense so that when you finally kick off the oxygen habit, you are actually ready for whatever is out there.

If life is, in fact, a training ground, then the pain and suffering you experience is more palatable, if it could be that.

I also think we hang on to life more dearly than we need to. I'm not saying I don't value life - I'm saying that if we are, as I theorize, ~more~ than just physical beings, then the short time we exist on this physically governed, linear-timed earth really isn't all that much, and isn't the be-all-end-all of who we are or who we could be. Maybe there is more.

If I'm wrong, and we all just return to dust, then all this really doesn't matter, does it? In the mean time, if it brings me peace, and if it brings you peace, then maybe we can get through this miserable life thing a bit easier.

Going through some personal stuff with the imminent arrival of Javelin Jr, and I'm told it's normal.

When I held my first kid in my arms, life seemed so incredible, so miraculous, so bigger-than-evolution, I wondered how anyone could hold their own baby and think there is no God. Right now he's 6, and sometimes I want to punch him in the esophagus. Soon he'll be a teenager.... Still, though, I think life is a miracle. None of this existence really makes sense.

Thanks for the discussion, I may be reading this at 2AM if I don't sleep... again.

Journal your thoughts in writing. It helps your brain think you've "dealt with it" and it will let it go. Otherwise you continue "circular reasoning" and you stew on the same thoughts over and over again.

I brought some religion into this, but my theories are not that of the church I attend. I haven't been ex-communicated or burned at the stake yet, but I do get some eyes rolling when I start philosophizing about my ideas. Y'all are allowed to believe whatever it is you want to believe.

Javelin wrote: Do you believe there is an afterlife? If not, how do you live day-to-day without completely breaking down?

Nah, and it's easy. I try to live productively and by making most people's lives that I interact with a little easier/better/more enjoyable. Then again, I'm a twenty-something male who only has to care for myself. What do I know about anything? My life has just started.

So far it's 8 to 1 and the nos have it. The best part about this thread so far is that no one has started frothing at the mouth and verbally beat up a previous poster . . . yet anyway.

I just turned 63 and have had a lot of time to consider this. But I think I'll just keep it simple. If I and what most people refer to as themselves are just these computerized bio/electro/mechanical forms you see then there really is no I or you. We are just programmed to THINK we exist. My 65 MGB USED to exist but it was crushed and now it's a Toyota.

To quote the Moody Blues from "In the Beginning":

"I think, I think I am, therefore I am, I think. . . . I'm more than that, I know I am, at least I think I must be."

Yes, I am here, so there has to be an after life. Can I prove it to you? No, not really. I truly believe that most people don't want to think or believe there is an after life because that would mean that they were truly responsible for their actions during this phase of their existence.

Do you believe there is an afterlife?

No.

If not, how do you live day-to-day without completely breaking down?

Why should I be breaking down? This quote is relevant:

"I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit." - Mark Twain

Good old Mark Twain, the George Carlin of his day.

Nope, no afterlife. Sure, it would be nice to have one as taught by classical religions, but my head just can't buy into things of pure faith. If others choose to believe in it, and that gives them comfort, I'm cool with that. But...I think wasting your time here on earth in a belief (and possibly misguided hope...after all, faith isn't proof) that something better will come is foolish. I'm sure any Creator would be annoyed by someone ho-humming through earthly life after it's been provided to you. Get busy and do something with it.

My advancing age coupled with the terminal illnesses of a few friends has pushed me to get off my posterior and do some things I'd been wanting to do. Race a real car on a track with other real cars (check). Ride a motorcycle (check). Pick at a banjo and teach myself a song or two (check). It's frequently called a Bucket List and I think they are a good idea. You need to set goals for things other than careers or home improvement projects.

And if I'm wrong and their is an afterlife...bonus round!

1) Nope, there is no afterlife in the spiritual sense. More below.

2) How can it be proved one way or another? Wouldn't you have to die? At that point, it's a bit late to make any corrections. I'd rather deal with what I know to be real: this life.

3) I persevere because this life is the only chance I will ever get to be decent to other people and to try to prepare my daughter for her life as an adult.

That is an afterlife of a sort if you think about it: a lot of what I try to teach her is the same stuff my parents taught me. So my dad (and when she passes on, my mom) live on through me and through her.

What you are experiencing is similar to my thoughts as the Curmudgeonling was getting closer and closer to arrival. The realization that you have taken on the awesome responsibility for another whole life is a daunting thought and yest it will make you reconsider what's really important.

Like ddavidv, I've checked off a bunch of things on my bucket list but there's still some to go, like skydiving. My kid wants to do it too, so maybe some of me has rubbed off on her.

1.) Yes, I believe in eternity.

2.) Probably couldn't prove it they way most people want. Can people prove it doesn't?

3.) Don't have to ever worry about breaking down, I have a Helper.

Christians have faith. Faith is believing in something without question, do the right thing, follow a given path and you get your reward in the end. Christians can point to the Bible for reference and prove this point.

Scientologists however believe this stick of meat you're trapped in is a tempory shelter. Some members, with training, can leave the shelter at will; there's an unbelievable universe or two out there.

Afterlife? Absolutely!

Where? Send me a postcard.

Dan

Do you believe there is an afterlife?

Yes.

If so, how do you justify/prove/believe in it?

Why do I need to justify or prove it? If I could, it wouldn't be belief.

If the limits of my own understanding are all there is, this is truly a sorry existence.

Faith begats faith. What I mean by that is that I didn't begin to see things of eternal nature until I FIRST took the step of faith. After that, more was revealed to me, which made me have to stretch my faith further. I find the confirmations AFTER I take the steps of faith, not before.

And I find my faith limitations pretty daunting. There's a lot I do not yet know how to believe in.

But I do know 2 things. 1- There IS a God. 2- I am NOT Him.

As a parent I have a more important question I focus on. Do I want my children to be faithless?

I do not.

SkinnyG and SVrex have said everything I believe and agree with.

SkinnyG wrote: I believe in God. Without that, I think I would either give up and live gratuitously self-indulgent, or go on a shooting rampage (which is probably the same thing).

I am always a little bit frightened when I hear this answer. It implies that only the fear of punishment keeps you from anarchy. I am not a believer, but I come from a family that has been involved in the church for generations. My interactions with others are every bit as moral and upright as any of my family members, based upon the desire to treat people as they treat me- a fundamental Judeo-Christian ethic that doesn't require later reward or punishment to support.

The need for an explanation must be strong in religious types. While I would like to know exactly how everything works and why it happens, I'm not so self confident and sure of my own intelligence that I need a supernatural explanation of things I don't understand.

SVreX wrote: Do you believe there is an afterlife? Yes. If so, how do you justify/prove/believe in it? Why do I need to justify or prove it? If I could, it wouldn't be belief. If the limits of my own understanding are all there is, this is truly a sorry existence. Faith begats faith. What I mean by that is that I didn't begin to see things of eternal nature until I FIRST took the step of faith. After that, more was revealed to me, which made me have to stretch my faith further. I find the confirmations AFTER I take the steps of faith, not before. And I find my faith limitations pretty daunting. There's a lot I do not yet know how to believe in. But I do know 2 things. 1- There IS a God. 2- I am NOT Him. As a parent I have a more important question I focus on. Do I want my children to be faithless? I do not.

What he said.

SVreX, I'm starting to wonder if I have an unknown older brother in GA. The similarities of beliefs , in a lot of things, are kind of shocking. I'm going to have to buy you a beer one day.

I don't believe that humans can be trusted to speak about God. So that throws all organized religion out the window for me.

That said, everything I've ever come across in life works in a sinusoidal fashion. Nothing ever randomly appears out of nothing. Nothing ever completely disappears into nothing. Everything always occurs in a cycle that is never ending.

When talking about seasons, spring is just as much the end of winter as it is the beginning of summer.

In this way, I also believe that birth is just as much the ending of death, as it is the beginning of life.

And it is such that I believe that the sum total of 'spirit', whatever this may be, is constant and shared. Recycled and reused for all of eternity.

Yes I believe in an afterlife.

Don't have to justify it to anyone but myself. I've seen things that I believe are close enough to miracles that have solidified the idea that "hey, these people must be doing something right".

In the end though, the one thing that I keep coming back to is this:

SkinnyG wrote:

I believe in God. Without that, I think I would either give up and live gratuitously self-indulgent, or go on a shooting rampage (which is probably the same thing).

I'm not saying that I would be a bad person or not care about morals without religion, but there really has to be an endpoint to being a good person. In my views at least.

Javelin wrote: Do you believe there is an afterlife? yes If so, how do you justify/prove/believe in it? don't have to justify it... it's my belief ... can't prove it, it just is.... it's called faith you either have faith or you don't .. I do If not, how do you live day-to-day without completely breaking down? see above... the old cliché comes to mind... " I'd rather live my life believing and it not be true than not believe and find out I was wrong"... besides it doesn't cause me any problems to live my life in a faithful / believers way...

Also, if you've ever delved into any physics course, you may have been shocked by the absolute simplicity of it all. The rules that govern our physical universe are incredibly elegant. What are the chances of that? I mean, evolution makes perfect sense, but the laws of physics remain constant since whatever the beginning was. I can't help but think that this is the result of some intelligent creator.

Javelin wrote: Do you believe there is an afterlife?

No.

Javelin wrote: If not, how do you live day-to-day without completely breaking down?

Honestly, I understand the feeling of hopelessness only in the sense of disappointment people might have in being sold on a story that when scrutinized later, does not hold water. I was raised in a religious environment but I cannot recall a time that the promise of everlasting life seemed plausible. I was the kid that asked difficult questions in Sunday School and never got satisfactory answers. I also ruined Santa and the Easter Bunny for my siblings by digging a little too deep into the facts. As I grew up I learned to try not to ruin other people's journey unless they ask. I was either born a skeptic or spent too much time watching Nova with my grandfather I guess. I was spared the feeling I've lost something by never having had it in the first place.

There is plenty of motivation for me to love and provide for my children and to provide them an environment to love and raise theirs and so on. I take enjoyment in the world around me without the dangled carrot. My conciousness may be temporary but my contribution to the DNA of the future is how my traits live on. Good enough for me.

Where some see evidence of God I see unexplained phenomena assigned to a black-box representing more opportunity to learn something and record it for future generations to build on. Legacy bonus round!

I'm like GPS, I was not enamored of what I was told as a kid. This will make some folks unhappy, but here's how I feel about things:

Q. Where did the universe come from?

A. God created it and everything in it.

Q. Then where did God come from?

A. He's always been there.

Q. How do we know this?

A. It's a matter of faith. Something we must accept even if we can't explain it.

Q. Okay, that's fine for some folks. What if I'd like a better explanation?

A. To want a better explanation is to question the very existence of God and He does not like that. So by asking that question you condemn yourself to eternal damnation.

Q.

The unfortunate thing is that if someone dares to question the existence of god many people immediately consider that person to be immoral. (Not true.) That can make it very difficult to get on in this world, so those who choose to question learn (as GPS said) to 1) not ruin other people's journey and also 2) there are very real consequences in the work etc world if it's made common knowledge.

EDIT: I made it sound like everyone of faith is intolerant. That's not true. There are very many people of faith who are willing to accept that atheists are not a threat. Some of them are peole I know personally (as in off this board) and are in this discussion.

As an atheist, you learn very quickly that you can't always tell who is and isn't tolerant. So you learn to STFU around people you don't know well as that can most definitely backfire.