All Cars Are Terrible

No, that's not a teaser. It's actually true: all cars really are terrible.

In my 21 years of having owned, driven, and worked on dozens of different makes, models, and body styles, I've come to realize that not a one of them really embodies what a car ought to be. Some have come close, and most haven't missed the mark by an atrocious amount, but every single one of them leaves something on the table.

Is there such a thing as a "Perfect" car? I'm sure there isn't. But could a vehicle exist that at least checks all the boxes, even if not in a perfect way?

I ought to resign myself to my purgatory; I will likely never find an acceptable car. Having not found it yet, it's almost impossible it will ever be built, given the current trends in car design. At some point, when I have more money and time and skill, I may attempt to build it myself. But how likely is it that I'll succeed...versus ending up with something worse than the sum of it's parts?

Has anyone here found a car they can honestly say is "Not Particularly Terrible"?

Here. You get like this when you're hungry.

You're being awfully vague, there. There are many different tasks that a car might need to perform, and there are often design choices that, by sheer physics, biases it towards one task or another. And, frankly, some people could care less about one or more task that a given vehicle could be tasked with. So, there will be a perfect car for a given task, but a jack-of-all-trades will invariably make compromises.

As far as I can tell, it's impossible to make a car that will seat 5-6 comfortably, offroad, tow, cruise, get good mileage, have enough power to be fun, be a competitive autocross/road race car and be reliable. By definition, making a car that will seat 6, go offroad and tow will add lots of weight and drag that will make it more difficult to get good mileage, have enough power, and handle in an autocross.

Heck, it's hard enough to find a smallish RWD sedan that can handle. You basically have 4 choices: 3-series, ATS, G35/37/Q??, IS???.

1998-2002 Honda Accord EX 5-sp would be my nominee. Not great at anything, but pretty darned good at everything.

I agree; all cars are terrible in their own ways. All of them CAN and WILL break. It's just choosing what you are willing to deal with.

As far as daily drivers go, I always do my due diligence in research before I commit to buying one. For instance, I knew right from the start with my Mazda 3 that the engine mounts would go prematurely. I expected it, so when it happened, I was prepared.

That said, some cars break worse than others. You just need to decide how much punishment you're willing to take.

In reply to scardeal:

I was vague in the initial post. And I recognize there are invariably compromises. Hence, why I admitted that "Perfect" was impossible.

The problem, I've realized, is that when I bought my first vehicle, I had a very small sample of vehicles I'd ever driven- so, by the metric of those vehicles, it was pretty decent.

Then I started buying more, different cars, and realized what other cool stuff a car could be, so my standards got higher.

Per the original post, what I'm speaking more specifically of is a day-to-day car that hits all of the high points. Obviously if I want to tow or haul or hit the track, something very different and specialized will be needed, with the attendant compromises.

The W123-chassis Mercedes-Benz comes very close, for me, to hitting the goals for the daily. Main shortcomings are being a bit ho-hum in the looks department and being somewhat underpowered.

Volvo 122's are also very close, but don't offer the ride quality of the W123. And could use a bit more power, too.

RWD, manual transmission, 4 wheel independent suspension, Excellent brakes, enough power to feel "peppy", good enough fuel economy that I can afford to drive it, comfortable seats, excellent visibility, simple enough to be reliable and easy/ enjoyable to work on, and attractive styling. I'd say those are the big hitters on my "want list".

Name me a car that hits them all. I dare you. Hint: anything made after around 1972 is probably going to miss in the styling department.

Sounds to me that you need to make your own resto-mod car.

Find the ideal looking car, and go from there.

The one thing I would suggest, though- instead of specific tech level requirements- I'd go more for the results. In the era you like- there were many live axle cars that handled and rode better than their IRS competitors. So instead of the IRS in the Mercedes, it's the ride and handling you like.

Is there a Mercedes car that you like the looks of?

4 wheel independent suspension, Excellent brakes, enough power to feel "peppy", good enough fuel economy that I can afford to drive it, comfortable seats, excellent visibility..

anything made after around 1972 is probably going to miss in the styling department.

There's your problem. These two quotes don't occur anywhere at the same time. You get one or the other. Not both.

Which is why we all modify cars. Find one that's close and modify the hell out of it to be all the others.

So, basically, what I want is the styling of a 1950's American car, the simplicity of a 1960's Swedish car, the comfort of a 1970's luxury car, the handling & sophistication of a 1980's German car, and the build quality and reliability of a 1990's Japanese car.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

That's how projects end up in a death spiral

I want something quiet. -This thing is slow. -Add power adders -I want something quiet.
I want something comfortable. -The handling is terrible in this. -Upgrade suspension. -I want something quiet and comfortable.
I want something that'll seat five human sized adults. -Minivans are terrible and you should feel terrible.
I want good gas milage. -This thing is slow. -KERS is expensive.

I have that issue too though and I have been threatening to buy a luxobarge to commute with. SWMBO gives it a week after I buy one to be bored without a stick and being absurdly overpowered.

It's one of those things: Fast, Cheap, Reliable or Quiet, Fast, Attractive. Pick two.

volvoclearinghouse wrote: RWD, manual transmission, 4 wheel independent suspension, Excellent brakes, enough power to feel "peppy", good enough fuel economy that I can afford to drive it, comfortable seats, excellent visibility, simple enough to be reliable and easy/ enjoyable to work on, and attractive styling. I'd say those are the big hitters on my "want list".

Ever owned an e28 5 series or e32 7 series?

Or, plop an inline six from either of those two BMWs into that Jag you have...

In reply to The0retical:

I don't even car that much about quiet. The current daily duties are split between a W123 240D (which I would describe as "slightly too busy") and a 240 Volvo wagon (which is plenty quiet for me). I just want seats that make my butt feel as though God Himself is coddling it.

Why are we surprised when something created by imperfect beings is imperfect?

In reply to Robbie:

The only BMW I've ever owned is a 1971 2002. I liked that car, but it was horribly unreliable, especially considering what a dead simple car it was. The 80's Bimmers appeal to me in a similar way as the W123, but the styling isn't quite there...and, as silly as it sounds, I just wouldn't describe myself as a BMW-sort of fellow. I'm the same way about Volkswagens.

McLaren F1.

Doesn't rust. Perfect Seating position. Doesn't break often.

Robbie wrote: Or, plop an inline six from either of those two BMWs into that Jag you have...

Actually, that Jag I have is darn close to perfect. Which is why I'm pretty motivated to get it reliable. So far it's checked just about every box I've listed. I haven't owned it long enough to really be sure, though. And it's still got some handling/ driveability issues to sort out. But it is close.

The fuel economy might be the worst part of it- it seems to get mid-teens in the miles-per-gallon department. So maybe it's a "once or twice a week" car.

Honestly, the best car I've ever owned isn't a car. It's been trucks. I'm a truck guy. Cars don't feel right. Im currently building the perfect "car", so give me a few years and I'll report back.

But the closest a Car has gotten would likely be the Forte that I sold. With the exception of no door sound deadening allowing atrocious amounts of road noise in, it was pretty darn good. Handled great. Had more than enough power. Fantastic brakes. Awesome stereo, good HVAC, everything fell to hand nicely. Seats were supportive without being stiff and uncomfortable. It was sporty enough to satisfy the need, but soft enough that a 1000 mile one way trip wasn't bad.

For me, the "perfect car" depends on my needs at the time, which can vary a lot day to day. But I've had those days where I want to get rid of everything with an engine and live like a hermit.

911?

This sounds analogous to finding that 'perfect' mate.

I had a thought like this a couple years ago. My Allroad was a pretty amazing car that suffered from typical German over engineering and thirstyness. If Honda could build an accord wagon with their J35 mounted longitudinally and Rear biased AWD system. A slick 6 speed manual gear box and subdued but handsome styling.......nobody would buy it, they'd want sport cutes

The0retical wrote: I have that issue too though and I have been threatening to buy a luxobarge to commute with. SWMBO gives it a week after I buy one to be bored without a stick and being absurdly overpowered.

BMW M5 would check both the stick and absurdly overpowered options in a luxobarge. Just saying.

trucke wrote: This sounds analogous to finding that 'perfect' mate.

I'm lucky, I found mine.

All of life is a compromise. Embrace it.

wvumtnbkr wrote: McLaren F1. Doesn't rust. Perfect Seating position. Doesn't break often.

Terrible visibility for overtaking. Little cargo space. Zero offroad capability. Ridiculously long 1st gear. Astronomical initial cost, maintenance costs, and repair costs.