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bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin SuperDork
6/6/19 3:24 p.m.

My middle son is sixteen and very inquisitive. We try not to be political in our house because my wife is hard Left and I am pretty hard Right. So he questions everything. His Socials teacher had the class watch the Gore movie about the apocalypse, and my kid thought it was a great movie, and came home and did more research as he likes to do. And found that there are quite a few errors in the film. When he pointed out some of the discrepancies the next day he was laughed at and called a climate change denier by the teacher, for the amusement of the rest of the class. No further discussion or critisism was allowed. I am more than a little pissed, both for the teacher using my kid to score points with the class, and also because he could have used the film as a valid teaching tool with open discussion, but instead chose to just push his own agenda and brainwash a bunch of kids with non factual propaganda. WWGRM do?

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler PowerDork
6/6/19 3:28 p.m.

I forsee this going well.  laugh

But to answer your question, I think you handled it just fine. You showed the kid that there can be more than one side of an issue and encouraged him to think for himself. Regardless of whether the teacher was in the wrong or not, you still have a lot more influence over your kid than they do.

RevRico
RevRico PowerDork
6/6/19 3:30 p.m.

Schools are too busy teaching children what to think instead of how to think. Encourage his inquisitive behavior outside of the school. Question everything, trust no one, particularly those in authority.

 

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
6/6/19 3:33 p.m.

There are actually a couple of minor factual errors in the movie, if these are the ones he pointed out then the teacher was wrong:

https://skepticalscience.com/al-gore-inconvenient-truth-errors-intermediate.htm

trucke
trucke SuperDork
6/6/19 3:33 p.m.

Great job encouraging research to formulate their own opinion!  You can ask your son what his opinion of the situation is.  He did research, but the teacher denied his research.  How effective is that teacher?  This will be very enlightening for him. 

I have these kind of talks with my kids when we watch the news.  They are learning quickly that you cannot always believe what you hear.

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
6/6/19 3:34 p.m.

If nothing else, he has been taught to question everything and that people in authority aren't always right. 

If that is all he takes away from the class at the end of the year, I'd call it a success. 

02Pilot
02Pilot SuperDork
6/6/19 3:34 p.m.

The days of teaching students how to think, rather than what to think, are sadly long behind us for the most part. I suggest you use this experience simply as a demonstration that there's a difference between teaching and indoctrination, and that your son consider this carefully when he selects a college (assuming he's going). It will take some digging, but some schools are far better at teaching critical thinking than others - it's worth find one that excels in this, as it is the root of a good education.

dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
6/6/19 3:35 p.m.

Keep in mind that even a smart kid will be mortified with a little pushback. It's possible they labeled and mocked him in class, it's also possible they pressed him on his claims and made him uncomfortable enough that that's what he heard.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
6/6/19 3:36 p.m.

I suppose another question would be, what websites did he get his questions from?  Maybe an opportunity to explore how to find reliable information, and a conversation on observational bias.

RX Reven'
RX Reven' SuperDork
6/6/19 3:39 p.m.

As a moderate that has lived my whole life in an extremely polarized state, I’ve come up with the following motto to help ease the frustration…

If you have to embellish, spin, or falsify to make your point…you don’t have a point.

mtn
mtn MegaDork
6/6/19 3:45 p.m.

Teach him to also figure out, what data was available at the time the film was made? Because 13 years have passed since its release, we know more now than we did then. 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
6/6/19 3:48 p.m.

The movie is actually an excellent example of a very good presentation.  It is meant to persuade. 

The teachers reaction is a excellent example of not seeing the forest in the trees.  As O2 pilot pointed out, the main lesson that should be learned is "are you persuaded?" not "what is the ultimate truth of the situation presented".

Encourage his critical thinking.... it will be desperately needed...

T.J.
T.J. MegaDork
6/6/19 3:55 p.m.

As others have already said, he’s already learned the important lesson of not blindly trusting authority. Have him watch Tony Heller’s videos on Youtube. Al Gore’s movie is a good example of persuasion, not necessarily an example of science. 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
6/6/19 4:01 p.m.
RevRico said:

Schools are too busy teaching children what to think instead of how to think. Encourage his inquisitive behavior outside of the school. Question everything, trust no one, particularly those in authority.

 

this. all of this twice. 

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
6/6/19 4:27 p.m.
T.J. said:

As others have already said, he’s already learned the important lesson of not blindly trusting authority. Have him watch Tony Heller’s videos on Youtube. Al Gore’s movie is a good example of persuasion, not necessarily an example of science. 

And Tony Heller's videos are an excellent example of pseudoscience. The only thing worse than blindly trusting authority is blindly distrusting authority so hard that you'll believe any nonsense that contradicts the authority position.

Remember: Even many of the worst, wrongest people around will state that the sky is blue and that you should drink at least four cups of water per day. They can still be right about those things - they haven't tainted those facts with their badness.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
6/6/19 5:13 p.m.
GameboyRMH said:
 

...The only thing worse than blindly trusting authority is blindly distrusting authority so hard that you'll believe any nonsense that contradicts the authority position...

There really is no difference in those two things, unless you assume an authority figure always has your best interest in mind (there are many, many, many example of this not being the case).  More likely?  Maybe. You still can't tell unless you exam it, so It doesn't even mater if it's more likely.  It can never be assumed, even in the case of (unfortunately) parents.

The point here is not "blindly distrusting" or "believing any nonsense", the point is to question things you hear, no matter the source (OK, if you are in basic training, you might want to back off on this a bit).

The world is not black and white, it's essence is shades of gray...

TJL
TJL Reader
6/6/19 5:37 p.m.

Politics aside, sounds like you have already succeeded with your child. Question everything.  When there is politics and piles of $ involved, dont accept anything without checking yourself. 

Also this is a great teachable moment for him that even a teacher Will be wrong and do your research.

And yes, kids arent taught how to think and figure things out, its just how to pass a test so our scores look better and schools keep the funding and accreditation.

my son is almost 4 and im a pretty moderate libertarian. Im scared poopless about him being in school soon. 

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UberDork
6/6/19 5:47 p.m.

Wasn't there recently a thread about homeschooling?  Seems relevant here.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
6/6/19 6:22 p.m.
aircooled said:
GameboyRMH said:
 

...The only thing worse than blindly trusting authority is blindly distrusting authority so hard that you'll believe any nonsense that contradicts the authority position...

There really is no difference in those two things, unless you assume an authority figure always has your best interest in mind (there are many, many, many example of this not being the case).  More likely?  Maybe. You still can't tell unless you exam it, so It doesn't even mater if it's more likely.  It can never be assumed, even in the case of (unfortunately) parents.

I am indeed assuming that the majority of authority figures will make more true than false statements, in which case you would believe less falsehoods through blind trust than automatic disagreement.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
6/6/19 6:35 p.m.
GameboyRMH said:
 

I am indeed assuming that the majority of authority figures will make more true than false statements, in which case you would believe less falsehoods through blind trust than automatic disagreement.

To my point though, you have no way of know which ones are false or true (no matter the ratio), unless you question all of them.  You also cannot assume each lie has the same impact.  E.g. you could believe fewer lies, but more influencial ones.

T.J.
T.J. MegaDork
6/6/19 8:04 p.m.

In reply to bearmtnmartin :

Having a questioning attitude and being able to think critically will pit your son way ahead of the average Joe (and some folks in this thread), so it sounds like things are on the right track with him. This sounds like one of those times where he needs to pick his battles and let it go. Nothing he can do or say will change the teacher’s mind I’d bet. 

JoeyM
JoeyM Mod Squad
6/6/19 8:17 p.m.
bearmtnmartin said:

 WWGRM do?

I'd recommend that they follow up with the movie Cool It! about Bjorn Lomborg.  I usually pair Cool It!  with Chasing Ice to give two different perspectives when students watch films on that topic. 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
6/6/19 8:41 p.m.

Another thing to consider and teach (sorry I like the topic of objective critical thinking) is that something can be entirely true and still deceptive, or that two thing that seem to contradict each other can both be true.

For example, it is entirely true that the average person has one testical, but that of course is very deceptive.

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin SuperDork
6/6/19 8:42 p.m.

He is a very smart and motivated kid. He will do fine regardless of the occasional poor teacher he comes across. I have calmed down a bit and I will proceed to do nothing. But I appreciate the input. 

TasdevEngineer2of3
TasdevEngineer2of3 New Reader
6/6/19 10:16 p.m.

I finally figured out that school (k-12 plus the "university experience") is a game. As a student you can play the game, ignore the game or fight against the game (or I guess quit the game). Each leading to differing outcomes. Started talking to my son about this perspective when he was in grade school. I don't think it sunk it until late high school - maybe when hormones hit helped.

I believe that most children do learn things in school - despite the game. And a few learn the game and how to win. I also believe that what is "taught" to them is measured against their value system and they learn what to listen to and what less so. My and wife's job as a parent was to help my child develop that value system while he were very young. If parents aren't available and don't want to do so, I hope someone steps up.

I also felt the thing to do was to keep talking to him and listening - not just about how the game was going but other perhaps more important stuff.

Cynical? Perhaps.

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