Any Bayonet experts here?

I have an early Springfield Armory M1905 bayonet, dated 1906 (first year of production). The serial number falls within the range for 1906, but there is also a deep mark stamped next to the serial number, and I can't find any reference to that mark online. I assume it's some kind of inspection mark.

Also, one side of the grip has a number stamped into it as well. I assume it's an inventory or regiment number, but there's something a little funky about that too. It's either a 58 with the 8 stamp held upside down, or maybe an 82, with with an upside down 5 in place of the 2 (I used to set type and I can understand how these mistakes can happen).

Can anyone help me identify either the inspection mark or the number on the grip?

I don't know much about them but I might know a guy.  Let me send these photos to him and see what he knows.

I know it's better to be behind one than in front of one.

Cool. Yours looks like a 1918 production year. Is it still the full 16" length or was it ground down to 10"?

In reply to EastCoastMojo :

It was not cut down. I believe that the date stamp indicates the true year of manufacture and the serial number seems to confirm that was made in 1906. 

I'm going with that being a 58.  It might be related to a particular rifle, like one with a serial ending in 58, but I'm guessing here.  Not a bayonet or '03 expert.

In reply to Woody :

I'm no expert, I was going off the info on this site for the manufacture date. You are correct, I had added an extra digit (not the inspection mark, just poor number recall on my part).

I now want to become a bayonet expert. Imagine, someone could bring one in to that Pawn Shop show and Rick would say "I don't know much about these, but I've got a buddy who is a Bayonet Expert"--what a cool thing to be an expert in. 

In reply to EastCoastMojo :

Thanks for the link, lots of good info there!

mtn said:

I now want to become a bayonet expert. Imagine, someone could bring one in to that Pawn Shop show and Rick would say "I don't know much about these, but I've got a buddy who is a Bayonet Expert"--what a cool thing to be an expert in. 

Lol!

Part of the reason for my renewed interest in this thing is that I'm trying to establish a fair market value for it in the hope of passing it down the line soon. I've owned it for about 40 years and in all honesty, I've done very little bayonetting in that time.

One other thing that I learned whilst researching this is that the earliest ones were recalled to implement a production change to the latching mechanism, as the early bayonets were failing to remain securely attached to their rifles. They were returned to the manufacturer, retrofitted with a new catch and stamped with an "A"  (for Alteration) on the top of the hilt. Mine has this "A" stamp.

Lifted from here: http://www.cruffler.com/Features/SEP-01/trivia-September01.html

"VARIATIONS
The Annual Report of Springfield Armory for the Fiscal Year ending June 30, 1908 states "In November, 1907, it was reported from the Philippine Islands that the Bayonet, Model 1905, would fall off the rifle during firing of the piece and investigation at this Armory, showed that this defect was due to faulty design of the bayonet catch A new bayonet catch was designed to overcome this defect and all bayonets in store (155, 727) have been altered. In addition, the necessary gauges, tools and fixtures together with 27,500 new model bayonet catches were fabricated and shipped to the Manila Ordnance Depot for alteration of bayonets in the Philippine Islands."

The change involved a lengthened catch hook, and required that a longer slot be rnilled in the undercut groove of the pommel. Those bayonets already completed that were modified to accept the longer hook were marked with a small capital "A" (for altered) in front of the undercut groove in the upper tang. For some reason, this stamping was continued for years after the change had been made. Springfield bayonets up to 1910 are seen with the "A", and a Rock Island dated 1913 in the author's collection is still stamped with the "A". Unmodified bayonets are quite rare."

Curtis said:

I don't know much about them but I might know a guy.  Let me send these photos to him and see what he knows.

I checked with my buddy.  He was clueless.  He clarified that he likes bayonets but doesn't know much about them.

I know that I am allergic to their sting.

Woody said:

mtn said:

I now want to become a bayonet expert. Imagine, someone could bring one in to that Pawn Shop show and Rick would say "I don't know much about these, but I've got a buddy who is a Bayonet Expert"--what a cool thing to be an expert in. 

Lol!

Part of the reason for my renewed interest in this thing is that I'm trying to establish a fair market value for it in the hope of passing it down the line soon. I've owned it for about 40 years and in all honesty, I've done very little bayonetting in that time.

But you know the first time you’ll need it is right after you sell it. 

The "Flaming Bomb" stamp is Army Ordnance. The oldest "branch" stamp. It's on a lot of things.

Woody said:

One other thing that I learned whilst researching this is that the earliest ones were recalled to implement a production change to the latching mechanism, as the early bayonets were failing to remain securely attached to their rifles. They were returned to the manufacturer, retrofitted with a new catch and stamped with an "A"  (for Alteration) on the top of the hilt. Mine has this "A" stamp.

After a bit more research, I have only found this mark on bayonets dated 1906 (first year of manufacture).

Based upon little more than my best guess, I think that the mark is a modification to the original serial number, probably done at the same time that the recall was done at the armory and the hilt was stamped with the "A". Regardless of whether it is an inspection mark, or a "1" of a different font, the serial number would still fall within the range of those listed for the first year of production.

Ask this guy: www.forgottenweapons.com  (also Ian; not me).

As for value, try searching through Rock Island Auctions sale history.  There might be one or two sold.  My guess is a few hundred.

Interestingly, I was reading a book on the flight tonight and it mentioned a quote from one of the leaders of the French revolution. Prince Talleyrand:

"You can do many things with bayonets, but it is quite uncomfortable to sit on them."

Meaning you can never really govern by force.

Just thought you might like that in a bayonet thread!

Condition is everything, and a matching scabbard for it in good shape really pulls a premium. As pricing, unless its in pristine condition, you're looking at maybe a hundred smackers. Maybe $200-300 for good condition with scabbard. Have to remember, they made millions of these things.