I have a friend, a lawyer who went to a small town in Alabama to try a lawsuit that would keep him there all week. His client joined him and they went to the local liquor store and bought a bottle of bourbon on the Saturday before the trial started. They finished the bottle Wednesday night and went back Thursday afternoon and asked for another. The owner gave them the stink eye and said: "Just sold you one Saturday."
Don't be that guy.
chuckles wrote: I have a friend, a lawyer who went to a small town in Alabama to try a lawsuit that would keep him there all week. His client joined him and they went to the local liquor store and bought a bottle of bourbon on the Saturday before the trial started. They finished the bottle Wednesday night and went back Thursday afternoon and asked for another. The owner gave them the stink eye and said: "Just sold you one Saturday." Don't be that guy.
Which guy? Pretty sure I'm one of those guys 
dyintorace wrote:poopshovel wrote:Doubt it. I was born into existence in this town in 1969.dyintorace wrote:Pretty sure it was my town before it was your town, but whatever you say, boss!!!poopshovel wrote:Come to my town and beers are on me.dyintorace wrote:Conversationjack! I'll be down there probably middle of next month to rehearse with the band. Would love to take you and the crew out for beers.jonnyd330 wrote: Yummmm they have Swamp Head there, there is a craft beer bar near me that has their Midnight Oil that stuff is good.You should come up here soon and visit the brewery. You can take tours and they have lots of beers on tap in their "tasting room". Awesome place to hang out.
OK, you win!!! I was just a twinkle in my father's eye!
poopshovel wrote:chuckles wrote: I have a friend, a lawyer who went to a small town in Alabama to try a lawsuit that would keep him there all week. His client joined him and they went to the local liquor store and bought a bottle of bourbon on the Saturday before the trial started. They finished the bottle Wednesday night and went back Thursday afternoon and asked for another. The owner gave them the stink eye and said: "Just sold you one Saturday." Don't be that guy.Which guy? Pretty sure I'm one of those guys
BullE36 M3. There's no way it would take you five days to finish a bottle of bourbon, especially if sharing it.
I would imagine part of the ownership experience is what you create. The place I linked to earlier in the thread (Tipples) is in this development:
If, instead, you emulate this fine establishment, named The Bunghole, you'll probably need to carry a gun as David mentioned:
poopshovel wrote: Spitfire: Sorry your patents are alcoholics. The guy who owns the liquor store didn't make them alcoholics. I hear a lot of Muslim countries have pretty strict "no alcohol" policies. If legislating morality is your thing, I'd start there.
Were alcoholics. My father pickled his liver at 46. Mother made it to 65.
Legislating morality isn't my thing, but I can see you don't give a E36 M3. That does not surprise me at all. And I do not mean that in a mean, antagonistic way.
dyintorace wrote: I would imagine part of the ownership experience is what you create. The place I linked to earlier in the thread (Tipples) is in this development:
Funny. The first pic looks a lot like the strip mall we're looking at. I'll try and get a pic or three tonight. I am a little scared of what sitting empty and not climate controlled for (x) years has done to the place, but aside from weeds and stuff everywhere, it still looks pretty good from the hwy.
Hopefully nothing a couple industrial-grade bug bombs and rat poison can't fix.
There's a local brewery trying to get rolling down here in macon that has mentioned many, many hurdles to growler distribution. Lots of resistance and odd permitting I think.
while living in Rome (GA) I always heard scuttlebutt about the corruption around the liquor stores and bars in the town due to the dry counties to the north. Watch your back and make sure you know who's the real owner (or at least where the money goes) from the other stores in town.
I remember hearing that Georgia Southern is in a dry county and that the first store over the line was owned...by the dry county's sheriff. And they loved to stop DUIs coming back. If your personal agenda falls on the OTHER side of corruption, it might be something to consider.
And if you launch, we'll go out of our way to stop by on all our Dahlonega wine runs. That's at least 3-4 times a year....
It would seem as though the hurdles here are either not so big, or the people selling are ignoring them. Chick that owns a wine shop down the street is doing growler pours. I vundah eef her pahpuhz are in order. As she is a lesbian Democrat in one of the reddest counties of a red state, I have a hard time believing she is politically connected in any way.
Might want to jump on it. GRM is looking for ways to increase revenue and might steal your idea.
Enyar wrote: Might want to jump on it. GRM is looking for ways to increase revenue and might steal your idea.
Build a liquor store, rob a liquor store, it's all the same to me! I "don't give a E36 M3!"
David S. Wallens wrote: I've wondering about all that inventory. We have a little liquor store near the house, and he has just a ton of inventory. Did he have to pay cash for all of it? Is there some kind of financing system for liquor?
Yep. Most distributors will give their stores "net 30" credit accounts, so you basically have a month to pay for your last delivery. Of course startup inventory costs may be astronomical, but once you have a (good) reputation with one or two distributors in your area, the rest will be beating down your door to get you signed up.
Poopy: The biggest hurdle I've encountered/seen/heard of in getting any kind of booze bidness off the ground is licensing. If there are no liquor stores in your area, it may be because the county/township/council/whatever has decided for whatever reason that they don't want one. This is usually for 'moral' (read: socioeconomic) reasons, and there's no convincing them otherwise.
An example: in my ward/district of South St. Louis City, there are no standalone liquor stores. Grocery stores have liquor, beer, and wine, and some gas stations/c-stores have a full license to sell booze, but again, no standalones. Until a local company with a good amount of internet sales and a few liquor warehouse "superstores" wanted to open an outpost. I know it took him several years of wrangling, with all kinds of weird compromises - for instance, nowhere in St. Louis City can you buy a 40oz beer/malt beverage; he had to agree to have no cold beer in stock; etc - he finally got it open. He does killer business now, but he put his time in for this location.
Again, it comes down to local mores and codes. I'd suggest you spend a lot of time learning the codes, an more importantly, working any and all connections you have to the city that might help grease the wheels.
I looked into this a few years ago, mostly because they are easy to run. An old friend of my dad's owns two and his first caution was to be sure you got in near (preferably next to) a grocery store. Standalones don't do that well (except in certain circumstances, more on that later), you need high traffic in the strip mall and that's what the grocery store does for you.
Around here you occasionally see them next to a convenience store, the deal generally is that the c-store owner will already have an off premises beer/wine license. They simply add a wall to block off the liquor store from the c-store and sell booze there (in SC beer and booze are separate licenses). The big problem I see with that is you need strong traffic because the liquor store will require its own employee, since it's walled off from the main store.
There's also the 'category killers' such as Green's, that's a chain of big ones around here and I believe they are around your area as well. They are usually huge stores and due to their size can buy in large amounts, often they will sell for ~ the same price smaller stores have to pay. They will generally have standalones, but they place them in close proximity to large apartment complex areas or the big shopping malls. That way they ride the mall's coattails, so to speak. There's also one right at the edge of USC here, gee wonder why they did that? 
Thanks for the info. Alex!!! Any idea what kind of margins are on liquor, beer, & wine, respectively?
I'll jump off the rules & regs. bridge when I get to it, but my biggest concern right now is whether or not it's going to be more profitable than the frame shop.
One of the guys who works at the liquor store down the road (this is the one with the horrible location; yet is crazy busy every time I go in) volunteered that they do $25k in sales on a busy Saturday. My eyes bugged out for a minute, but if the margin is only (WILD guess here) 5%, then that's a paltry $1,250 BEFORE operating expenses...and that's on the BEST of days.
Back to the rules & regs., I'm guessing the biggest hurdle would be the churches. Not sure if there's any truth to it, but what I'm told is that selling liquor isn't TECHNICALLY illegal in this county, but it's set up so that the churches get first right of refusal (so to speak) on the liquor licenses. Again, no idea whether or not there's any truth to that.
Curmudgeon wrote: I looked into this a few years ago, mostly because they are easy to run. An old friend of my dad's owns two and his first caution was to be sure you got in near (preferably next to) a grocery store. Standalones don't do that well (except in certain circumstances, more on that later), you need high traffic in the strip mall and that's what the grocery store does for you. Around here you occasionally see them next to a convenience store, the deal generally is that the c-store owner will already have an off premises beer/wine license. They simply add a wall to block off the liquor store from the c-store and sell booze there (in SC beer and booze are separate licenses). The big problem I see with that is you need strong traffic because the liquor store will require its own employee, since it's walled off from the main store. There's also the 'category killers' such as Green's, that's a chain of big ones around here and I believe they are around your area as well. They are usually huge stores and due to their size can buy in large amounts, often they will sell for ~ the same price smaller stores have to pay. They will generally have standalones, but they place them in close proximity to large apartment complex areas or the big shopping malls. That way they ride the mall's coattails, so to speak. There's also one right at the edge of USC here, gee wonder why they did that?
"Next to the grocery store" is a great plan, and I know in Florida, that's how ALL of the big ones roll, but I'm almost wondering if there are laws prohibiting that in Georgia...or at least North Georgia. There are 2 big boys in Jasper where we live - both owned by the same dude. Both are in pretty horrible locations. Both are busy as E36 M3 all the time, and have been around for over 10 years.
The strip mall that I'm looking at is DEFINITELY an "island." No gas stations or groceries nearby...but it is smack dab in between two tourist towns, and EASILY accesible from the highway - like "turn right and park." The other great part: It's for rent OR sale. So I'd probably look at a lease-option-type deal. If, for some reason it tanks in the first year, I'm not on the hook for a half-million in bricks & sticks. What's better? I believe there are two reasons the place has sat vacant for years:
The location kind of sucks for local retail business. Again, it's BETWEEN two tourist towns. So the freaking bozo who opened a Flower shop in there was doomed from the start. People in Ellijay will shop in Ellijay. People in Blue Ridge shop in Blue Ridge...but if you live in Blue Ridge and want liquor, right now, you have to drive all the way down to the other spot in Ellijay (~20-25 minutes.) I'd get ALL of that business, plus at least a significant percentage of the "cash-cow;" tourists headed into Blue Ridge from ATL/Florida.
YOU CAN'T FIND THE FREAKIN' PLACE ONLINE. There's a dinky little sign out front with a phone# on it, and that's it. So if someone from out of town (ATL, Florida, etc.) is looking to start a business up here, the thing doesn't even pop up on any of the Real Estate sites.
I couldn't be next to a Grocery Store here in Blue Ridge, as there are no liquor sales.
If I put one in the Walmart parking lot in Ellijay, I'd be right across the street from the current liquor store.
I don't know your area so don't know what exactly is up, but when you say this location is 'terrible for retail' I suddenly get real uneasy.
If you are in a fairly exclusive business (such as my dad's speed shop, it was the ONLY one for a ~50 mile radius) then your location is not really all that important. If you are in a business where there's a fair number around (such as the liquor business) then your location suddenly becomes MUCH more important.
As for the margin: if that's $1,250 after ALL the bills are paid (including the owner's exorbiant salary ) then that's not really bad at all. My dad's bud was evasive about his margins 
, but: he had 4 employees, both he and his wife drove new Caddys and she didn't work, he was Greek and they'd fly back there for a week each year, he lived in a damn nice house with a pool etc.
There's a bunch of them out there, if they were not making any money...
Poor choice of words on my part. "Terrible" if you're selling trinkets and trash. There's a Wallyworld for that. It would be the only Liquor store ON the Northbound side of the hwy for literally hundreds of miles.
That sounds a bit better. Another question you might want to look into: SC has laws restricting hours for liquor stores, 7AM-7PM Monday-Saturday, not allowed to open on Sunday or on election days. Yeah, imagine what might happen if you get all drunk up and go to the voting booth... Anyway, if you have similar restrictions down there you might want to go perch near there and see what evening commute traffic is like up to your closing time. Crappy traffic = hmmmm, might want to look further...
poopshovel wrote:SVreX wrote: If YOU are gonna stand behind the counter, it will succeed. If not, crapshoot.Aww man. Thanks dude. Wait. I think that's a compliment(?)
Yes, it was a compliment.
Let me put it another way...
If YOU are behind the bar, I'll stop in every time I am in town. If I lived in the town, I'd be a regular, just so I could hear you pontificate on virtually any world issue imaginable.
If I gotta listen to some dumba$$ $10 per hour barkeep or bimbo, I'm not coming. Unless she's hot. Maybe.
It ain't about the building, needs, or margins.
It's the license.
In some places, they are expensive. Like 6 figure expensive.
In some places you can't get one. Period.
Nothing you can do will change it.
A word on margins...
I owned a great coffee shop. It was well loved by the community, great name, great product. The margins were usually over 500%. We ran it efficiently with a very low overhead, no fat or waste.
Didn't matter. We didn't have the volume, and nothing was going to change that.
In the town we live in, the simple fact was that most folks wouldn't buy designer coffee. There wasn't enough business to share with the other coffee shops, and the loyal customers that did exist were not going to change shops at any price.
I had days with gross receipts under $20. Lots of them.
I could have increased my volume a bit, but not without a huge increase in overhead (advertising, 2nd location, etc) which would not have been offset by the bigger volume.
We spent 2 years and never paid ourselves a nickel. Usually went in the hole about $2K per month.
So, the game in my town is to see which shop can loose the most money without locking it's doors. I bailed.
Margins are important. In food services, you CAN'T do it without volume as well.
If you don't have a built in traffic generator, you've got nothing but a rent payment.
I can only speak from a service/restaurant perspective, but average markup on liquor is 3x in those settings. From what I can extrapolate from my invoices and the prices I've seen in stores, retail usually runs about a 2-2.5x markup. Now, the big boys can probably negotiate a lower cost based on volume, so there's that.
SVreX's point about volume is absolutely valid, but I believe selling booze is a lot easier than selling coffee.
Volume vs. margin:
There were these two guys who decided to go into business selling watermelons. So, they bought a truck, then bought watermelons for $1 each, sat on the side of the road and sold every one of them for $1 each.
They counted their money afterwards and realized they hadn't made any money, so they decided to try again. So they loaded the truck up with watermlons for $1 apiece, then sold every one of them for $1 apiece.
Afterwards they are counting their money, the first guy says 'we didn't make any money that time either'.
His buddy clouts him upside the head and yells 'Dumbass! I told you we should have bought a bigger truck!'
Basically, you need both. You need volume (like SVreX's $20 days in the coffee shop, even at a 500% markup that ain't paying the rent or electric bills) and you need margins (our watermelon peddlers found that out first hand).
People in that business are VERY evasive about margins and what they actually make. I even looked into buying a couple of existing stores, the owners wanted a high four figure non refundable sum before they would open the books. Hm. Wasn't willing to risk that much.
I don't know what it costs to get a liquor license in GA, up here it's not expensive but every SOB with an ax to grind gets a shot at saying no. Doesn't mean the ABC guys won't eventually come through with the license but it can take a while.
That was one reason I looked at existing stores; I'd have to get my own license as well (they are non transferable) but it would be a lot quicker with a store already in place because the potshots had been taken previously. That bit of info came straight from both the ABC people and a couple of business brokers.
One issue that I haven't seen mentioned is the risk of selling to underage people. Here in IL the state police and our town both run sting operations almost monthly. The local gas station got busted and received a hefty fine, as did the local bar. The bar couldn't pay the fines and was forced to close.
Obviously, its a issue you would take seriously, and also instill upon your employees - but it only takes a moment of carelessness/laziness on their part to potentially really screw things up for you.
poopshovel wrote: Back to the rules & regs., I'm guessing the biggest hurdle would be the churches. Not sure if there's any truth to it, but what I'm told is that selling liquor isn't TECHNICALLY illegal in this county, but it's set up so that the churches get first right of refusal (so to speak) on the liquor licenses. Again, no idea whether or not there's any truth to that.
If that's the case, see if the nearest church to your location is Episcopalian or Lutheran.
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