calteg
calteg SuperDork
8/16/23 5:48 p.m.

Recent job interview took a strange turn. They offered me a substantial pay bump, but it would require moving near the Seattle area. 

80% WFH with a commute into Seattle roughly 1 day a week. Looking at  outlying areas, specifically Everett,  but have no idea which neighboring cities have reasonable housing costs, good neighborhoods etc. I'm coming from Austin, where an  average house is 500-600k. Any advice would be appreciated!

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
8/16/23 6:42 p.m.

Yeah. Seattle. Million will buy you a commutable home. Maybe. 
 

you can commute from Everett.  Probably an hour or more now on 5 at peak times.  There is the possibility to take the train, depending on where you need to go inside Seattle, it is an option. 
 

I left Seattle in 2016. I miss the nature. Don't miss the rest of it.  I used to live on phinney ridge/greenwood. I've heard my old neighborhood is lousy with crime now. Total shame. 

Driven5
Driven5 UberDork
8/16/23 7:30 p.m.

There are perfectly acceptable neighborhoods all over the place. The question is what factors (other than price) are driving your selection? House size? Land size? Schools? Entertainment? Renting or buying? If the latter, between the pay and any equity you might have do you have an idea of house price you might be willing to afford?

The area is basically layed out N-S, with 1 major artery on either side (I-5 and I-405) of Lake Washington. So the vast majority of traffic ends up on those two roads. From a commute standpoint, you'll be best off looking as close to Seattle as your budget will allow. The 1/2 empty drive between Seattle and Everett would likely be over an hour each way, possibly pushing 1.5 hour at times. How much commute are you willing to tolerate your 1-2 days a week?

Also the earlier you can both head in and head home, the better. I know people that commute Lake Stevens to Renton, but do it very early.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
8/16/23 7:46 p.m.

You should probably check this site out.  As I mentioned previously, I listen to a radio host who is in Seattle, and it does not sound like it's trending well there.  The entire state finally decided it would not be a great idea to make drug use legal (apparently they have visited Portland!).... except one area... I think you can guess where that is, and where all the drug users will now flock to... (it's honestly freakin' insane, at least to me).  Not sure how temporary the note below will be.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/faq-what-happens-now-with-drug-possession-public-use-in-seattle/

A new law making the possession and public use of drugs both gross misdemeanors takes effect in Washington state on Saturday, but is — at least temporarily — excluded from Seattle’s criminal code.

My uneducated guess is that the housing market might be ready for a bit of a drop there.  Seems like a popular place to leave and the housing prices are already rather high.

Anyway, here the Everett area.  Clearly you want to be very choosy as to what part:

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/wa/everett/crime

The really goofy thing is Seattle ranks as the #8 city in the country people want to leave.  The most popular destination?  Los Angeles!  Which is #2!!!!  Talk about out of the frying pan, into the fire!

https://www.redfin.com/news/august-2022-housing-migration-trends/

 

Sorry, not trying to be depressing, just setting a low expectation, so you can be positively surprised.  I know it can be VERY pretty there, nature wise, (when it's not raining or drizzling).

calteg
calteg SuperDork
8/16/23 8:30 p.m.

In reply to Driven5 :

Factors,  in order: No HOA, no property crime, enclosed yard, at least 1 car garage. 2 bed/2 bath would be ideal. Finding a bargain that will appreciate is high on the list, but also highly unlikely.

Likely buying around the $600k mark, but potentially can afford more depending on how salary negotiations go.

I have complete autonomy over the day and time I travel, so traffic is a minimal concern. To other's points, I'd rather live outside of Seattle and commute than dodge dirty needles on a daily basis.

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy MegaDork
8/16/23 9:24 p.m.

In reply to calteg :

There was a kid that was flying into SFO and going to college but living elsewhere?

Can Monday be your office day?  Fly in on Sunday night? Motel 6? Office Monday and fly home Monday night?

Its not a gear place in Everett, is it?

procainestart
procainestart SuperDork
8/16/23 10:10 p.m.

I think I'd look at Renton before Everett. Or somewhere east of the city. Not sure on housing costs, but maybe look at Sammamish Plateau or Snoqualmie (the town, not the mtn pass). Or maybe even North Bend, which is farther east, quieter. Or Covington? If you only need to come to town once a week, maybe also look west of Seattle -- Port Orchard comes to mind, and I have heard that Bremerton, a navy town with a transient military population, is improving -- and commute by ferry, which is really common, and easy.  Bainbridge Island is probably not in your budget, but look anyway, as it's closest via ferry and I'm no real estate agent. 

Seattle has a really serious problem with drug use and homelessness, but I don't think that should be an issue. I'm not fearing for my life when I go downtown. That's not to say it hasn't impacted the city, but it's not exactly dystopian, either. 

I think the most important thing is, how do you and your family feel about the weather and lack of sunlight? Sunset is around 4:30 in winter. It's a myth that it rains all the time -- the reality is, it's gray, wet (but not often pouring), often raw, and dark, with a low, gray sky, from Oct thru March or beyond, and the joke is that the first day of summer is July 5 because it has often rained for the 4th. You have to learn to not cancel E36 M3 cuz the weather sucks. Guy I know, who moved away, used to call winter here The Long, Dark Tunnel; it's pretty apt, IMO. Summers are amazing, tho. 

Meanwhile, while it may be true that people are leaving, I sure as hell can't tell. There are so many more people here that I get texts from WSDOT midday almost every summer Sunday to let me know about stop-and-go traffic on westbound I-90, *80* miles from the city as all the weekend adventurers come home. On Memorial Day weekend, backups began 110 miles out. In winter, the ski areas are also jammed up on weekends, if you're into that -- there are two that I won't go to anymore because the traffic is so bad.

RonPNW
RonPNW New Reader
8/16/23 10:17 p.m.

I currently live in Seattle and have lived in Denver, Dallas, Houston, San Jose, Silicon Valley and Chicago.

Seattle is no different than any other major urban area with places you don't want to visit or live, places you do want to visit and live, places you can afford and places you can't. Given a choice, I would not liver anywhere else, so you know I'm biased.

Check out the Zillow home price site and use google earth and street view to check out some areas. 

Personally, I would look to areas near light rail or planned light rail. It's hard to beat letting someone else do the driving. It tends to be wetter, towards the mountains, but that area has some nice properties at nice prices. If you are an urban beast you could find a nicer, close in, property at a good price but expect to need to do some fix up / clean up.

Good luck and don't tell anyone else. It is getting crowded.

Ron

Wally (Forum Supporter)
Wally (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/16/23 11:22 p.m.

I have a friend in Everett. It's more expensive than I expected, like most everything out there, but I really liked the area, and it was a comfortable train ridd away from Seattle. I considered moving out there when I looked at relocating.  

Driven5
Driven5 UberDork
8/17/23 2:52 a.m.

All of the stuff I've seen about people "fleeing from" or "flocking to" cities seem to be a bit of clickbait headlines implying metro areas but really only specific to the city proper. They then talk about in/out movement as it's a 1:1 correlation between metro areas, not taking into account how many people are merely moving between the city proper and the suburbs in any given city. As far as I'm aware, despite people leaving the city proper, the Seattle metro area is still growing. I don't think anybody is pointing you towards the city of Seattle itself. 

Here's an interactive crime map you can use to peruse the area: https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-seattle-wa/ 

And you can compare to home: https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-austin-tx/

Despite my liking being on the 'north end', due in large part to having timed getting into the minimum crime (and good schools) belt between Seattle and Everett, Procainestart offers a pretty good primer on some good areas to begin your (re)search.

Everett is probably a little over 1/2 hour from Seattle without traffic, but easily over an hour when it's bad. The bad direction for rush hours is towards Seattle in the morning and away from Seattle in the afternoon.

Your general property desires are easy enough but your budget is going to be the biggest hurdle for the types of areas you want. I'd guess most HOA neighborhoods will be out of budget, and fully fenced is common. Not being particularly concerned about schools will help open up areas too.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
8/17/23 12:32 p.m.
Driven5 said:

All of the stuff I've seen about people "fleeing from" or "flocking to" cities seem to be a bit of clickbait headlines implying metro areas but really only specific to the city proper.....

Agree completely.  I live near Los Angeles, so I have an example in my area.   The real point of the "cities that people are leaving" is not really the numbers affecting the population (which are small, percentage wise), but the fact that people want out so much they actually leave (which is a big effort for most), and there is likely a much higher percentage that wishes they could, and there is a reason for that (which could vary of course).

Realistically, if they are moving to another large city, they are likely going to run into similar issues.

Seattle wise, personally, if it is a mostly WFH job, I would being looking as far away from Seattle proper as practical (I am not a fan of congested cities though).  There are some very nice (nature wise at least) areas around Seattle.  I would sacrifice making a somewhat painful one day a week drive in (maybe make it a super early day?), for more land, more nature, less congestion. 

I have been to Seattle and lived in San Francisco, so I am aware of and somewhat used to that style of weather (although it could be generally easily gotten away from in SF).  It's definitely something that might take some getting used to if you have not experienced it, especially if you are used to, and like, sunshine.  The upside of the weather at least is that when you are working you generally won't be thinking "I would rather be outside".  I do still, get a bit of flashback when I feel a cool, moist breeze or there is fog.  There is something a bit nice about it, for me at least.

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 PowerDork
8/17/23 1:10 p.m.

Calteg, where's the office located at? 

I lived there for a while and visit often but mostly familiar with the Southside/Tacoma areas. 

Puyallup is a very nice suburb that's easily commutable and reasonably priced vs. Everett/Redmond/Kirkland. It's also in Pierce county vs King County so you won't be paying as much of a premium. Bonney Lake is another nice area that borders Puyallup. 

Enumclaw is a cool little town with some breweries and cellars and some awesome views. The town has some cool running trails and easy access to Mt Rainier NP and surround National Forests. You could take some backroads into Seattle, Bellvue, Tacoma, etc. 

Gig Harbor/Port Orchard/Bremerton is another nice area outside of the cities. You could commute up to Southworth or Bremerton to take the Ferry into Seattle for your one day a week commute. The Tacoma Narrows bridge is expensive to drive back and forth over however. My recent rental car toll bill for that was $6.45 per crossing plus the fee the rental car company tacks on. 

I had friends that lived in Bellingham, it's nice but a hike from everything. Easy access to the San Juan Islands, Mt Baker and North Cascades National Park, close to Vancouver.

Most of the areas around JBLM are affordable but there's lots of less than savory people that wonder the streets in like Parkland, Spanaway, Lakewood, and Tillicum (yes thats what its called); however, Steilacoom has beautiful sound front houses and downtown area. 

Guess it all depends on what you're looking for and what you want. Do you want the hustle and bustle of a city? Suburbs? Or rural? 

 

 

Mezzanine
Mezzanine Dork
8/17/23 1:41 p.m.

I live across the Puget Sound from Seattle. I'm ten minutes from a fast ferry terminal that drops me off in downtown Seattle after a 26 minute ride across the water. I then walk ten minutes up the hill to my office in downtown. When you add buffers for parking and getting on the boat, it's 45 minutes to an hour commute, but it's the lowest stress possible. You get to ride on a boat in an incredibly beautiful part of the world and you aren't sitting in traffic. 

I only go into my office once a month or so, but pre-pandemmy I went in almost every day. If you're only going into the office once a week and your budget is $600k, then look hard at Kitsap County. You can get a more rural setting with the garage and all the criteria you cite and still be within easy ferry access to the city. There's multiple passenger only ferries operated by Kitsap Transit that go to downtown Seattle. If your office is close or a reasonable public transportation jaunt from there, that's what I'd recommend. Driving commutes are for chumps and a horrible idea in this region. I would not recommend taking the Washington State Ferry (WSF) system if you're in need of a car on the Seattle side. WSF is fine, but a driving commute with a ferry is pretty tough. I did it for one full year and it challenged my mental health. 

I live in Olalla (between Port Orchard and Gig Harbor) and my house meets all your criteria and my commute to Seattle is relatively easy. I don't believe you can accomplish either of those things if you live East of the Puget Sound or Seattle proper. 

 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/17/23 4:26 p.m.

In reply to Mezzanine :

$600k. That seems like a massive mortgage. 

SEADave
SEADave Dork
8/17/23 5:52 p.m.
DirtyBird222 said:

Calteg, where's the office located at? 

This is really important.  My office is in Seattle and my wife's office is in Seattle, but we have very different commutes.   Where you would want to live to commute into Green Lake would be very different from commuting into South Park (just for example) but they are both technically Seattle.  

Kendall Frederick
Kendall Frederick Reader
8/17/23 11:03 p.m.

In reply to Mezzanine :

Thanks for posting this.  My daughter lives in Seattle, and we love taking the ferry across to Bainbridge.  We talked cursorily about houses there, but they are still out of her price range.  Something in Kitsap might actually work very well for her (she works downtown within walking distance of the ferry terminal).

calteg
calteg SuperDork
8/18/23 8:20 a.m.

Looks to be a moot point. Apparently the reason they're desperate for personnel is because they don't scale pay appropriately. I appreciate the input  everybody! 

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
8/18/23 9:12 a.m.

In reply to calteg :

Been getting a lot of that lately.  You get a big title and 50k less a year.   No thanks. 
 

calteg
calteg SuperDork
8/18/23 4:55 p.m.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :

I applied for a job in Dallas where you  can get an okay house for $350k. A sketchy house in Seattle is $650k. They were offering an additional $10k for the relo.  No thanks

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