Apparently SpaceX is an OSHA-free chaos zone with a silly goal

Is there any chance we can we get this thread back on the rails?

As far as Elon goes, I used to be a fan, then I learned more about him, watched him get older, and got older myself. Now I'm not a fan--he lost me at the "Pedo Guy" comment, but there were warning signs far earlier. Somebody can accomplish really cool things while also really, really sucking. He's certainly hit both extremes of that spectrum. I don't really believe they're related, either. I think SpaceX could have still disrupted the space industry without killing people, and Tesla could have still become the most valuable car company without trolling marginalized groups on twitter. 

Some content recommendations that I've enjoyed:

I read Eric Berger's book about SpaceX earlier this year. It was a good read, but he's definitely an Elon fan--probably to a fault.
https://www.harpercollins.com/products/liftoff-eric-berger?variant=40332919308322

Behind the Bastards did a good podcast on the darker side of Elon:
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-one-i-do-not-like-63419860/

And Search Engine did an interesting podcast on what may have caused him to take his recent turn:
https://pjvogt.substack.com/p/whats-going-on-with-elon-musk

The thing that concerns me is the amount of hero worship around Elon. He is idolized in a way that other CEO's are not. He is often looked at as a genius/prophet/savior. This is why I look at him differently from like... Warren Buffet. I can respect Warren Buffet for being very business savvy, but that's it. I don't know of anyone who *worships* or idolizes Warren Buffet.

It is dangerous and pretty much always disastrous to worship anyone the way many people do with Elon.

I suspect there are "hero worship" Elon types out there.  I am not familiar with them, and I see no real evidence (?) of that on here in the (all too frequent) discussions about him. 

There does however seem to be some conflation between people who appreciate what some of his companies have done and those that "worship" him.  There also does seem to be some apparent bleed over for people who hate him, to hating his companies.  I am not sure how rational that is (?)

E.g. just because you like SpaceX or Tesla, do NOT imply you like Elon.   I also suspect there are lot fewer people who "worship" Elon out there than many suspect.

In reply to aircooled :

He's the richest man in the world. How did he get to be that?  We bought his products.
 

I think it's foolish to think the individual and the products can always be separated. When you buy his products, you financially support his stance on issues, and enable those positions. 

In reply to SV reX :

He just gets more publicity than most other CEOs and companies. 

Nestle, Hershey, Monsanto or whatever they're calling themselves these days, Dole fruit (ok long time ago but still), Johnson and Johnson, and the list goes on of companies ACTIVELY, PHYSICALLY harming people, but they don't get the news anymore because there's a hot new topic to exploit. And what do their CEOs do? Stay quiet, collect their golden parachutes, and jump to other companies. 

It's almost like companies using slave labor, knowingly putting poison into the air water and ground, trying to hide from cancer lawsuits and also companies that are big time media ad buyers turn a Venn diagram into a circle. But that would just be another crazy theory, because the same media would report on it if it was happening. 

SV reX said:

In reply to aircooled :

.....I think it's foolish to think the individual and the products can always be separated. When you buy his products, you financially support his stance on issues, and enable those positions. 

To some extent yes, I can see that, but I have not bought a Tesla, nor a SpaceX rocket (I suspect many here have not either), yet I appreciate them.   Does that mean I support his stances on issues?

Your point does very much point to the fact though that companies as a whole (and of course CEO's or owners) REALLY should not wander into controversial or political spaces if they can possibly avoid it, in general, it's just bad business practice.

Tom Suddard said:

And Search Engine did an interesting podcast on what may have caused him to take his recent turn:
https://pjvogt.substack.com/p/whats-going-on-with-elon-musk

This raises an interesting possibility relevant to the original topic, that maybe Elon doesn't want to go to Mars because he think Earth desperately needs an off-world bug-out compound, but because he thinks it will put him on the leaderboard of the alien videogame that he's practically certain makes up our universe.

Musk's "mistake" was not playing the game and choosing a side. He was a hero to many when he pushed green initiatives, they supported him when they thought he was on their "side." So many people have a "If you are not for us, you are against us" mentality. You need to check every box or pay the price. So when he shared opinions on various issues at odds with his supporters, they felt stabbed in the back, while he gained new supporters who believed he was now on their side. Both of which are equally stupid. Can't a person just have their own beliefs and opinions without being treated like they are a god or the devil? Can't we accept that even individual topics have a lot of nuance, it's not all or nothing? There is a lot of room between full blown support and "he has blood on his hands." 
 

I didn't care for him. I thought he was a snake oil salesman preying on people's emotion and gobbling up cap and trade credits to make a buck. His wealth grew disproportionally to the number of cars he was selling- he got rich off of the possibility Vs. the reality, which I was very skeptical of. Over time I've seen him bring the promises closer to reality, and I respect him for what he has accomplished. I also respect that he is his own person, and says whatever he thinks without being afraid of stepping on toes. Where most powerful people have handlers and PR firms managing their every word, he just lets it fly. Which is a horrible idea as a business owner. But I find it much more honest than someone who just tells me what they think I want to hear based on focus groups. 

In reply to aircooled :

If you have paid your US taxes, then you certainly have bought a SpaceEx rocket, and so have the rest of us. 
 

NASA is funded from the US Treasury, and SpaceEx handles 2/3 of NASA's launches. We are all buying their product, and benefiting from the related research. 
 

$62 million per launch worth (with 29 successful launches).

aircooled said:

Your point does very much point to the fact though that companies as a whole (and of course CEO's or owners) REALLY should not wander into controversial or political spaces if they can possibly avoid it, in general, it's just bad business practice.

 

I don't know about that. Controversial and political spaces seem to have been monumentally successful for countless companies, CEOs, and owners, including Mr Musk. 
 

Looks like pretty darned good business practice to me. 

Never mind.

Backing away for a while.

In reply to Beer Baron :

The only winning move is not to play.

How about a nice game of chess?

In reply to Appleseed :

I want to play global thermonuclear war. 

In reply to Mndsm :

Tic Tac Toe

In reply to Mndsm :

I'd piss on a spark plug if I thought it would help this E36 M3 thread.

In reply to Appleseed :

Sorry, but I don't read every thread on the forum.  A trans person posting isn't why I opened this thread--instead, I opened this after checking my emails on a Monday morning and seeing a flurry of up/downvote activity on this thread. And wow, did I open a mess.

I'm going to lock this and talk to the moderators about how to avoid a repeat.