Are we settling, or just poor?

JB's "settling" article

I read this as sort of an odd contradiction. A man who is chastising the reader, at least the one who has settled, for giving up on his dreams in an attempt to conform to his familial conditions. In essence, in order to be considered a successful non-conformer, you must conform to his ideals rather than that of your wife, or your child's, parents, boss's, or even your own.

As I think about this, having driven my 27 year old Accord to work again (Catywampus is like a fine Swiss watch!), and the minivan, wife, and four kids at home getting their education from Mom (and me at night), and don't think that I have "settled".

I have crafted my career, to the best of my ability, to give a mix of home time, money, and stability. These are my priorities. Likewise, having one income rather than two is one of my priorities. What this means, almost as necessity, is that a Ferrari or a 993 is not something which I could ever reasonably get. It also means that a minivan is a borderline necessity, if you consider it necessary to be able to drive all of your kids anywhere. Once there exists a minivan, and a car for getting to work and back, there is not a lot of extra on the table.

The author seems to think that unless you give up everything for an awesome car, that you have settled, as if all other priorities are simply noncritical in comparison.

In summary, I think that the real world is full of conflicting priorities, with limited resources (time & money) and balancing those. Now, it has been some time since I have raced at Lemons but I do believe that I do a pretty good job at maintaining some time and money for fun.

Now, I do understand the parallels he is making here. Sure, if you drive a Cayenne to the office every day, and your kids are handled with Mom, and you have plenty of cash, sure, do it in a Cayman or 911 instead. I get the point he is trying to make, but I believe, perhaps based on the rather generous economic situation the author has found himself in, that the real world rains down pretty hard on some of us, maybe even most of us.

Furthermore, if I give up my marriage, split custody of my kids, get a single bedroom apartment, and forget all other priorities to get that 993, am I now not settling in a much more catastrophic way? Sitting in traffic during the morning commute in a 27 year old Accord isn't much different than sitting in traffic in a Cayman, now is it?

I don't think I've read more than two articles on TTAC before so I was unprepared for Jack Baruth. Gotta say, and this is just my opinion but what an shiny happy person! Honestly, if this is indicative of what's over at that site, sign me out.

Of course it isn't settling, we all make decisions based on our place in life and socio-economic situations. berkeley him for suggesting otherwise!

I see no reason to click on the link or read the referenced article. I'll settle for not reading it I guess.

I hadn't read the article, but I think the general thought is that you have limited resources, so you need to decide what your priorities are and follow those. The key is that those priorities will demand that you sacrifice something if you truly make them your priorities.

The lie is that you can have your cake and eat it too. There are goals that can be mutually exclusive with one another, and you need to accept that accomplishing goal X might well mean sacrificing goal Y. When you do not commit to those goals, then you often wind up being the wishy-washy dreamer who lives his life saying, "If only..."

I too have sacrificed quite a bit of otherwise disposable income in the pursuit of family life. I don't have the car I'd like to have, and sometimes I feel a twinge of desire when I see a car that I can't afford. However, if I stop for just a single second, I realize that it is the price I pay for the joy of my family.

Just want to reiterate that only Jack Baruth could've filled Jeremy Clarkson's shoes as a Cartmanesque character for Top Gear...filled them and then some. I wonder if James May would've worked with him though...

Jack's probably right that a lot of people settle for crossovers unnecessarily. But he's wrong that nobody could want a crossover...well it's not so much that they want a crossover, but that it does the job and they don't "want" anything in particular automotive-wise.

Now my dad is the kind of person who would buy a crossover and like it. He genuinely has no desire for any kind of sports cars. His friends had Corvettes and Javelins when he was young, and he thought they were the stupidest most impractical things ever. He just doesn't care about cars. And a crossover is a fine multi-purpose transportation appliance.

Also I think you're right in that Baruth is ignoring real-world sensibilities. Are those of us with sport compacts "settling" for not getting a proper 2-seater sports car? Are supercar owners "settling" when they don't buy a Caparo T1 or Lotus T125? I think he's wealthy enough to be a bit out of touch with what budget constraints do to your automotive choices.

KyAllroad wrote: I don't think I've read more than two articles on TTAC before so I was unprepared for Jack Baruth. Gotta say, and this is just my opinion but what an shiny happy person! Honestly, if this is indicative of what's over at that site, sign me out.

No, Baruth is the only one like that.

Don't get me wrong, I think Baruth typically over-reaches to get a reaction and to make a point, and that's fine. I generally enjoy his articles, and I did enjoy reading this one, too. I find it hard to believe that I should be aspiring to be richer, divorced, and driving a cool car while "banging strippers" instead of driving Catywampus home to my family.

Brashness and aloofness aside, though, what I said still stands.

Baruth is an interesting guy. He takes his craft very seriously and feels that he needs to live the life he writes about so that he can write about it more authentically. You can't do Hemingway or Hunter S. Thompson while living in the suburbs and driving a minivan, at least without writing fiction. And you have to realize that he is bumping up against fiction all the time. He is a story teller. It's what he does.
He wants people to become emotionally involved in his writing even if that means pissing a few people off. He's not the first author to do this, nor will he be the last.
I've talked with him, just a short conversation, but he's not a hard guy to figure out.

If I buy a Ferrari instead of the Subaru crossover I think I want, I will be settling on looking cool and enjoying vroom vroom engine sounds at the expense of not being able to haul bicycles and associated gear to where I want to go. :(

There's some people who need to settle because time, money and space mean they're only going to have one car and that car needs to accommodate a family. Fair enough.

The people I don't understand (and the people baruth is is writing to IMO) are the ones who have plenty of income, 2 $50k luxury crossovers, the 3rd garage bay is filled with the kids' outdoor toys. Then the guy is at cars and coffee wishing he could own a Corvette. Dude. Go buy one.

TTAC is a great site, I read it daily. Not only for the articles, but for some of the comments which, from some of the regulars, are actually consistently humorous. That having been said, I have become so tired of certain types of car enthusiasts over the last few years. These types would be the either the dogmatic religious zealot, which the author herein most closely resembles, or the money oriented "spenders", which we need not discuss here anyway.

The zealot enthusiast maintains an irrational belief that there are certain automotive qualities that are universally desirable among those who would self-describe as car enthusiasts. This might include a low center of gravity, high power to weight ratio, a high degree of driver involvement and control in the operation of the car and a need for regular driver inputs. Now, broadly speaking, many of these may be true, but this description also reads like absolute hell for many people who also truly love cars, not just for the driving experience at 9/10's, but for features that make their lives easier and better, which is no less legitimate, and brings readers to sites like TTAC to learn (about what is usually the second largest purchase of our adults lives) as often as do sports drivers.

It's not much different than the church of the brown diesel manual wagon garbage, or the kids at Jalopnik praising one another for how committed they are to things most of them have no experience with beyond the adolescent desire to be "hard core" at something somewhat elitist, and think because they are too broke to afford a car with an automatic transmission, leather or heated seats makes them "car people".

One aspect the article fails to discuss is actually how comfortable, capable, feature rich and easy to live with many CUVs really are, not to mention providing some actual safety and capability features ground clearance can help with. Sure, these products offer the illusion of capability as soft roaders, but I see no difference here than the illusion of success, capability or driver skill projected by many sports cars.

Its like the old joke about Saturn. Everyone cares about cars. You can buy a Saturn to show you don't care about cars, but you still have to think about the position you want to take on the subject. Cars are heavily intertwined with self image, aspirations and fantasy. Some people fantasize about being happy with a family, and a good CUV might help. Just because a man thinks about his wife and family when he makes decisions doesn't make him afraid of them. Quite the contrary, it makes him a provider for them, and someone who can sacrifice short term immediate gratification for something a little more worthwhile.

I don't think I'm settling or poor. My choice to drive a 20 year old Saturn back and forth to work is a calculated decision based on a number of weighted factors.

I haven't read the entire article, but I'm not sure I have any desire to now. What a douche.

Are you settling by having a big time sports car when you get to spend less than 1% of the time at 9/10ths at the track? Sure it's a nice place to be when you're DDing it, but I'd argue I can have just as much enjoyment in my old dirty '91 Miata going 9/10ths at less than the speed limit on public roads 99% of the time. Are you settling with the sports car paying twice as much for consumables even though you haven't gotten your 1% in at the track since the last time you replaced the brakes?

Hell every time I drove my old Marquis with it's lethargic 3.8 CFI and 3 speed auto I had a big smile on my face, sitting in the grandpa fresh interior. That car was largely rust free and it looked good, a real survivor, and that made me happy every time I drove it. For it, 9/10ths was it taking an entire calendar month to get to 60 mph.

As to the Crossovers. Lots of people want to sit upright and at a higher height. Lots of people don't need a minivan or a truck. Enter the crossover. What's so hard to figure out about a good seating arrangement and outward visibility in an appliance vehicle? Also the perceived safety, whether it's real or not.

All of us who have a limit on our funds have to eventually decide what things are most important to us.

You picked your priorities: kids and family. Cars are secondary to that. It's not settling, because you would not be as fulfilled by driving a 993 home, as you are by having happy kids greet you. You don't have the money to have both, and that's fine.

Heck, I've put more priority on toys and I couldn't afford every toy I want, so I've "settled" for an S2000, Triumph Street Tripple R, minivan, and some electronic toys. I also go out to eat a lot, but I settle for places that are $15/plate, not $50/plate.

Also, I love having a minivan or a van. Utility is fun. The person who would pick a Forester over and STi might place a greater value on the ride height, taller tires, and more luggage space because they spend more weekends hiking, backpacking, or skiing than they do at the race track.

The author of that article is an elitist shiny happy person who lacks the creativity to imagine that other people might have different priorities than him.

I thought the article was well written and funny. I would like to have a beer with that guy.

I am on record as having had two baby seats in the back of an E36 M3, then later a 964. I ride a motorcycle to the grocery store in the winter. So... maybe YMMV. Compromise isn't really my thing. Well, atleast regrettable compromises anyway - I certainly settled for some things I wouldn't normally have because they made the Mrs happy. They weren't so much "settling" as they were fair concessions though.

Maybe I'm not the car guy I once was. I don't daydream of expensive and fast cars.

I daydream of having cars that are fun, and that means vehicles that allow me to go where I want to go while allowing me a budget that I can spend money on other things.

They are just tools, and having an expensive tool you never use is pointless.

tuna55 wrote: JB's "settling" article

He even tagged this horsesht 'despair' and 'emasculation'.

Uggh.

When you get something that does one thing really well, guess what - it does one thing. Am I going to go through my tools and everything else I own and throw out everything that doesn't do just one thing really well? No, because there's value in versatility--whether we're talking about furniture, cars, or people. How boneheaded do you have to be not to see that?

tuna55 wrote: The author seems to think that unless you give up everything for an awesome car, that you have settled, as if all other priorities are simply noncritical in comparison.

For the vast majority of people, the type of car they drive doesn't even make the first page on their list of life's priorities. Only an idiot looks at them and immediately thinks #despair and #emasculation.

For the record, my household has a crossover. It seats 7 (we have three kids, two in carseats) and we haul crap in it all the time. My commuting appliance is an EV. And I have an M3. And I have a Miata. And I really want my next car to be a Porsche... But the reality is that my fun cars, the ones I already own, only get driven a fraction of the time that I drive my EV or my crossover.

I think growing up hearing the kind of bullE36 M3 this article is pushing has permanently damaged my brain. I have major anti-settling problems: I have 3 race vehicles, one ultra powerful hooligan bike, a motorcycle race support vehicle and a rally support vehicle. When I have to buy a support vehicle it's incredibly painful, due to the little 13 year old version of me in the back of my head going "settling! you berkeleying Bob Costas!" just because the thing is somewhat practical. It's a great way to stay broke and constantly have to work on something.

I'm happy to be settling. Our '06 RAV4 crossover has been one of our best vehicle purchases, right up there with our '05 Odyssey. I happily drive either one, and both do a great job fulfilling their purposes.

I still enjoy my '01 Mustang GT 5spd that's almost stock (exhaust and K&N intake), but sounds great as you wind it up through the gears. Spending only $1500 on my fun car means I don't feel guilty for owning it and I haven't compromised my wife and children in any way. I don't want to be the guy putting out my family so I can drive a cool car that's beyond our means. So I guess from an outside perspective, I'm settling, but I don't feel that I am.

It's not settling, it's prioritizing. That's how E36 M3 gets done. You want a family, with quality time and all that entails, and you're on a limited budget? Sounds like you have that worked out perfectly, and own the right tools for the job.

Jackie B wants to bang chicks and drive fast cars, and write about the lifestyle, so he doesn't get what you have - a rewarding life spent with the family you love. He brags about missing his son's birthday party to hang out with chicks in the desert.

He gets to be a d-bag, and you get to be a father.

I haven't read it yet, but based on the comments I have to say that I did settle. I gave up all of my passions for the family. I'll read it when I get home tonight.

If you're taking life advice on being a man from the guy on the right, you're doing it wrong.

Automotive Guy Fieri.

bastomatic wrote: If you're taking life advice on being a man from the guy on the right, you're doing it wrong. Automotive Guy Fieri.

How come this forum doesn't have a +100000000000000 button yet

bastomatic wrote: It's not settling, it's prioritizing. That's how E36 M3 gets done. You want a family, with quality time and all that entails, and you're on a limited budget? Sounds like you have that worked out perfectly, and own the right tools for the job. Jackie B wants to bang chicks and drive fast cars, and write about the lifestyle, so he doesn't get what you have - a rewarding life spent with the family you love. He brags about missing his son's birthday party to hang out with chicks in the desert. He gets to be a d-bag, and you get to be a father.

Here here.

I couldn't even read to the end of the article, he scores too high on my D-bag-o-meter to wade through the self-congratulatory BS. If your man enough to be a father then be man enough to raise your kid. Anyone who brags about missing your child’s birthday to do something else is pure shiny happy person. He’s the one settling, settling into the panic of premature middle age neuroticism about death and living a midlife crisis to the fullest. Oh, and on the XT Vs STI, here’s why given the choice I’d have the XT. STi’s look stupid and ride rough. XT’s look cool, fly below the RADAR, ride better than the STi on Michigan’s special stages, err sorry ‘roads’ while still being fun to toss around and can fly by Police at 15 over while the STi was pulled over for doing 5 over.

bastomatic wrote: It's not settling, it's prioritizing. That's how E36 M3 gets done. You want a family, with quality time and all that entails, and you're on a limited budget? Sounds like you have that worked out perfectly, and own the right tools for the job. Jackie B wants to bang chicks and drive fast cars, and write about the lifestyle, so he doesn't get what you have - a rewarding life spent with the family you love. He brags about missing his son's birthday party to hang out with chicks in the desert. He gets to be a d-bag, and you get to be a father.

Yeah, I have no shame in owning a crossover and a Camry, mainly due to the big-block Olds convertible and the Slant-6 Duster I have in the garage behind them. Cars are like shoes to me, I wear the right pair for the job.

I think part of this point is the people bitching about not having something cool, but being perfectly able to do something about it. I'm not rich, but I busted my ass to fix up the stuff I own. I did most of my serious wrenching when I was single and unattached. I also had some of my craziest vehicles back then. Wishing you could do stuff like that and having no actual limitations is just being whiny.

As for being emasculated, that's a different problem. If you think owning a bitchin car = manhood, you are sad little man.