Are you science savvy?

13/13. Clearly we are an exceptional group.

Tom_Spangler wrote: 13/13. Clearly we are an exceptional group.

I was at another website that posted this (a science and scifi site), and everybody there was getting them all correct, too. You would probably get different results asking those questions to random people at a gas station.

the fracking question is the only one I would have missed on my own (well maybe someone mentioning that nitrogen caused them to fail = me actually thinking about that question ) if it hadn't been a topic of discussion here in NC for the last yr or so

mad_machine wrote:

fasted58 wrote: 12/13 Nitrogen got me, science class was so many years ago but why do I really need to know (or care) about that

sadly, that attitude of "why do I need to know about that" led to this test and only 7% getting all the answers correct. People can't just learn "what they need". If that were the case, we would still be living in small villiages surrounding stone castles while our lords lived (literally) like kings

Going on 55 now, I prolly haven't had to know that Nitrogen fact for over 40 years. If I really need to know I'll look it up in a book... no wait, the smart phone in my pocket.

mad_machine wrote:

fasted58 wrote: 12/13 Nitrogen got me, science class was so many years ago but why do I really need to know (or care) about that

sadly, that attitude of "why do I need to know about that" led to this test and only 7% getting all the answers correct. People can't just learn "what they need". If that were the case, we would still be living in small villiages surrounding stone castles while our lords lived (literally) like kings

totally disagree.

Do you understand and know the details of how a car is engineered? Or how cakes are made? Or how beer is brewed? Or how an instruments is made? How to play that instrument? How to make a bridge? How to really put in a hot rivet, but why is a bolt better than a hot rivet? How do you plant food so that the production is high enough, how to rotate it, how to properly fertilize? Do you know how Windows really runs? For most of that, it doesn't matter being that I can consume that, enjoy it, or be safe using it.

You don't need to know these trivial items to get along more than quite well in the world. I'm pretty sure Warren Buffet does not need to know most of this stuff.

If you asked these kinds of details about the shirt I'm wearing, there's a good chance I'll get some wrong too- yet I'm capable of using and wearing it.

And I'm 99% sure that quite a few of the developers of apps don't know the details of how an iPhone or Android phone works, but just enough that they can write apps that do something.

It's funny how people like to dissmiss others so easily.

alfadriver wrote:

mad_machine wrote:

fasted58 wrote: 12/13 Nitrogen got me, science class was so many years ago but why do I really need to know (or care) about that

sadly, that attitude of "why do I need to know about that" led to this test and only 7% getting all the answers correct. People can't just learn "what they need". If that were the case, we would still be living in small villiages surrounding stone castles while our lords lived (literally) like kings

totally disagree. Do you understand and know the details of how a car is engineered? Or how cakes are made? Or how beer is brewed? Or how an instruments is made? How to play that instrument? How to make a bridge? How to really put in a hot rivet, but why is a bolt better than a hot rivet? How do you plant food so that the production is high enough, how to rotate it, how to properly fertilize? Do you know how Windows really runs? For most of that, it doesn't matter being that I can consume that, enjoy it, or be safe using it. You don't need to know these trivial items to get along more than quite well in the world. I'm pretty sure Warren Buffet does not need to know most of this stuff. If you asked these kinds of details about the shirt I'm wearing, there's a good chance I'll get some wrong too- yet I'm capable of using and wearing it. And I'm 99% sure that quite a few of the developers of apps don't know the details of how an iPhone or Android phone works, but just enough that they can write apps that do something. It's funny how people like to dissmiss others so easily.

I don't see it that way. I think a good basic knowledge of how the world works is extremely useful. It provides a basis for learning the things you DO need. That's why we educate kids in a variety of subjects. It's like building a pyramid, you need a strong foundation of knowledge before you can learn the specific things that you will need in your particular life.

Real-life example relating to the nitrogen thing. Nitrogen inflation has become popular for tires, right? Well, I've known several people who thought that they couldn't just add air to their tires after they were inflated with nitrogen, so they always went back to the shop if they had low tire pressure. Knowing that our atmosphere is mostly nitrogen enables me to know that it's perfectly fine to add air to a nitrogen-filled tire, all you are doing is diluting the nitrogen a bit.

The nitrogen tire thing is yet another indication of how people get fleeced for not knowing the simple basics, along with copper bracelets to cure arthritis and other cockamamie stuff. 'Nuff said.

In reply to alfadriver:

"We've arranged a civilization in which most crucial elements profoundly depend on science and technology. We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces." --Carl Sagan

I think that about sums it up for me. I can't know the minutia of how every little thing works in ... but I can understand the fundamentals of a wide swath of things in such a way that I can benefit from it. The more people who understand things beyond a user level the more people I can leverage to fill the gaps in my own knowledge when I need to do something beyond my own means. The more people who understand how stuff works - the more people who aren't afraid of making choices involving technological "stuff". Lets use stem cell research as a lightning rod for a second. When no one knows anything beyond "I push button, food comes out" we have given a great amount of power to a small portion of the population. That almost never turns out well.

13/13...but...I was waiting for a truck at work and had 4 other people from work take the test. Best they could do was 7/13 and 2 of them are my boss!! But I do make more money than they do, work fewer hours and don;t have the fun of dealing with all the whiners.

Bruce

alfadriver wrote: totally disagree. Do you understand and know the details of how a car is engineered? Or how cakes are made? Or how beer is brewed? Or how an instruments is made? How to play that instrument? How to make a bridge? How to really put in a hot rivet, but why is a bolt better than a hot rivet? How do you plant food so that the production is high enough, how to rotate it, how to properly fertilize? Do you know how Windows really runs? For most of that, it doesn't matter being that I can consume that, enjoy it, or be safe using it.

And I disagree. It's not that the specific knowledge of these specific questions are exactly the sort of information you need to get by on a daily basis. They did strike me as a pretty decent bellwether for having a solid grounding in the sciences.

No, you do not absolutely need to know and understand science to get by in life. But there are many times when it is useful.

These were not high level detailed questions. "Is an electron smaller than an atom?" That LASERs are light, not sound. The general composition of air. How a single-blind scientific study is performed. These are pretty basic things. These are not questions about the difference in types of atomic bonds, or Boyle's law of gasses, or characteristics of different frequencies in the electromagnetic spectrum. This is like, you really aught to know that electricity flows in a circuit, not from point-to-point (some exceptions for static electricity).

You don't need to know exactly how everything works, but it shouldn't be so foreign to you that it is a complete mystery that you are not able to make informed decisions or avoid being fleeced. Like, you do not need to know exactly how the engine in your car works, but you aught to understand that it burns a mixture of gasoline and oxygen, oil lubricates things and needs to be changed, rubber parts wear out, and the engine has a coolant system that should be taken care of.

How is it useful to know that a laser is light and not sound?

How is it useful to know that an electron is smaller than an atom?

Seriously.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: In reply to alfadriver: "We've arranged a civilization in which most crucial elements profoundly depend on science and technology. We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces." --Carl Sagan

Why is that a disaster? I certainly don't see that. You can say the exact same thing about law, and I'm quite sure that many here can't answer similar level law questions, yet we manage to get by. Just because Carl Sagan says it does not mean it's a fact. Tell me a specific example of how it's really going to be a disaster that my neighbor does not know that air is 70% N2?

Secondly, we are talking about the masses knowing ALL of it, not some of it. People are seemingly proud to be part of the 7%. Really? BFD. (yes, I got all of them too, but question the point more than feeling sad)

There's a difference in knowing trivial things off the top of your head (and much of that is trivial) and knowing when you need to know. As far as I can tell, it's another way that people can feel superior to others.

alfadriver wrote: How is it useful to know that a laser is light and not sound? How is it useful to know that an electron is smaller than an atom? Seriously.

Because lazers and light are used in a wide variety of technologies. You aught to know that light and sound are very different things and have different properties. Really what the question is asking was, "Do you understand that light and sound are different?"

The question about electrons is really asking, "Do you understand anything at all about atoms and things on the atomic scale?" If you know that, you have the absolute basic grounding to understand chemistry. Understanding chemistry -at all- is valuable in all kinds of applications.

alfadriver wrote: How is it useful to know that a laser is light and not sound? How is it useful to know that an electron is smaller than an atom? Seriously.

Because, if you don't know even the smallest bit about how the world around you works then you are doomed to accept everything that anyone tells you about it at face value with no way to evaluate it for truth, half truth or outright lie.

If you are a bushman of the Kalihari... maybe you don't need to know anything about electricity. But the one bushman who does... he is a berkeleying god.

Tom_Spangler wrote: Real-life example relating to the nitrogen thing. Nitrogen inflation has become popular for tires, right? Well, I've known several people who thought that they couldn't just add air to their tires after they were inflated with nitrogen, so they always went back to the shop if they had low tire pressure. Knowing that our atmosphere is mostly nitrogen enables me to know that it's perfectly fine to add air to a nitrogen-filled tire, all you are doing is diluting the nitrogen a bit.

That makes you better in some way? Come on, Tom- that's nothing about education. Again, there's a difference in knowing science and knowing trivial stuff like much of that.

Your example is more about critical thinking- as in- did I have tire problems before this whole N2 thing? No, so it's not a big deal. That's not science.

In reply to alfadriver:

You don't need to know exactly how all the systems on your car work. But if you understand the basic concepts behind most of the systems, you will be able to take better care of your car. You will be able to find better deals on used cars. You will be able to spend less on maintenance.

Does that make you an inherently better person? No. But it arguably makes you better at using a basic technology that is integral to our way of life.

alfadriver wrote: Your example is more about critical thinking- as in- did I have tire problems before this whole N2 thing? No, so it's not a big deal. That's not science.

Actually... that is science.

Or it is science if you take one step further and say, "I suspect that if I go back to using regular air, I will not have problem. I will try that and see what happens."

alfadriver wrote: Your example is more about critical thinking- as in- did I have tire problems before this whole N2 thing? No, so it's not a big deal. That's not science.

You can't think critically with no information about the subject matter at all.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

alfadriver wrote: How is it useful to know that a laser is light and not sound? How is it useful to know that an electron is smaller than an atom? Seriously.

Because if you don't know a LASER is light you probably have no idea how a CD, DVD works or a pointer for that matter.

And? That somehow prevents peopel from using them? That doesn't seem like a disaster in waiting....

Because if you don't know that an electron is smaller than an atom that would be a good indicator that you know nothing about how electricity works.

Even if you DID know an electron was smaller, would you know how electricity works? But why is that a disaster in waiting?

Because, if you don't know even the smallest bit about how the world around you works then you are doomed to accept everything that anyone tells you about it at face value with no way to evaluate it for truth, half truth or outright lie. If you are a bushman of the Kalihari... maybe you don't need to know anything about electricity. But the one bushman who does... he is a berkeleying god.

Again, you are taliking critical thought- asking questions when it matters, not about knowledge. Seeing how people belive in talking heads is more dangerous than understanding science. I'm good with the critical thought ideas.

I certainly don't believe what you spout about for a lot of things- but that has nothing to do with science. I'm pretty sure your defense of the guns has nothing to do with science.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

alfadriver wrote: Your example is more about critical thinking- as in- did I have tire problems before this whole N2 thing? No, so it's not a big deal. That's not science.

You can't think critically with no information about the subject matter at all.

So missing 1 out of 13 means you know nothing? Seriously?

Come on. You guys are taking this FAR to seriously.

Obviously, I'm in the minority here, so I'll stop disagreeing.

Too bad, no real critical thought of the point.

alfadriver wrote: Even if you DID know an electron was smaller, would you know how electricity works? But why is that a disaster in waiting?

Maybe you wouldn't. But if you don't know anything about electrons, than you don't understand electricity well either. So... the question is testing if you have a base level of scientific knowledge. This is a step below "do you understand chemistry?" or "do you understand electricity?" This was the most basic question to see if you have even the vaguest notion of them.

Is lacking this knowledge disaster in waiting? On an individual level, no. On a mass level, we need enough people to understand enough about the technologies we use daily.

These questions were very basic. It really was a test if you have a basic understanding of science and technology. Understanding how the world around you works is a very good thing.

alfadriver wrote: Again, you are taliking critical thought- asking questions when it matters, not about knowledge. Seeing how people belive in talking heads is more dangerous than understanding science. I'm good with the critical thought ideas.

Science is just a formalized system of critical thinking and evaluation. Chances are, that if you understand critical thinking, have a reasonable education, and pay attention to what is going on around you, you will also have the basic scientific understanding to answer at least 11 of these questions correctly (I will allow the "Nitrogen" and "Fracking" questions as outliers).

EDIT: I don't like where this is all going.

It doesn't berkeleying matter with regard to the value of a human, but the lack of some level of understanding in math and science is not unlikely to result in problems for all of us, in my humble opinion.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

alfadriver wrote: How is it useful to know that a laser is light and not sound? How is it useful to know that an electron is smaller than an atom? Seriously.

Because, if you don't know even the smallest bit about how the world around you works then you are doomed to accept everything that anyone tells you about it at face value with no way to evaluate it for truth, half truth or outright lie.

THIS is what I was saying earlier.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: If you are a bushman of the Kalihari... maybe you don't need to know anything about electricity. But the one bushman who does... he is a berkeleying god.

True also, like the parable of the one eyed man in the land of the blind.

I'm not saying missing one or two on this test makes someone an idiot. But if someone only gets three or four right... man, that scares me.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: In reply to alfadriver: "We've arranged a civilization in which most crucial elements profoundly depend on science and technology. We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces." --Carl Sagan I think that about sums it up for me. I can't know the minutia of how every little thing works in ... but I can understand the fundamentals of a wide swath of things in such a way that I can benefit from it. The more people who understand things beyond a user level the more people I can leverage to fill the gaps in my own knowledge when I need to do something beyond my own means. The more people who understand how stuff works - the more people who aren't afraid of making choices involving technological "stuff". Lets use stem cell research as a lightning rod for a second. When no one knows anything beyond "I push button, food comes out" we have given a great amount of power to a small portion of the population. That almost never turns out well.

We have reached that point in our civilization where nobody really knows how to fix the stuff we use everyday. I am not talking replacing broken parts with new.. but truely how to repair the parts of any machine we use on a daily basis.

If all technology disappeared tomorrow, along with the plans, how long do you think it would take people to recreate what we have? In that time, how many people would starve or get sick and die?