Bad Winter Drivers --- An Open Letter

As for the "fell asleep" portion, locally it would have been illegal if she admitted to texting.
Agreed, not all SUV drivers are this way but it was mostly a fitting picture to the discussion even if the reasons were not exact to the discussion.

I live on the inside of bend.. the only bend in this road for it's entire 10 mile length. My neighbor across the street has lost over a dozen vehicles over the years from people going straight across their yard and into the woods.. that wouldn't be so bad if not for the fact their driveway is in the way.

A couple of summers ago, I was trying to sleep when I awoke to the sounds of spinning tyres. Getting up, I saw a honda with it's rear end sitting up on the kerb and spinning it's tyres to get off. Before I could get to the phone, a cop showed up.. so I sat back and watched the fun.

The "driver" told the cop that he came around the bend (25mph here) and the rear of the car started to slide, so he grabbed the handbrake to control it..

first words out of the cops mouth before I went back to bed with a smile.. "Sir, have you been drinking?"

alex wrote: Slow and steady wins the race.

But it can also get you killed by the dude cresting the hill at speed.

I say this as I was stuck behind a dude doing 12 mph. 12! You, sir, have no business out on the road right now. Please go home before you get me killed.

I'm tired...REALLY tired of folks thinking that 4wd vehicles can stop better than any other 4 wheeled vehicle.

4wd (and yes, AWD) is great for getting you out of a stuck situation, or help you get going when it's slick. I don't think I really need to extol the virtues of more driving wheels. It WILL NOT, howevery do you any good for stopping. ALL cars have 4 wheel brakes.

And I dare say that stopping, or failure to, is the cause of the vast majority of weather and/or traction related accidents.

I'd love to see a side-by side comparison of 4WD/AWD vehicles and their non AWD counterparts with identical tires tested under braking in adverse conditions. I think the results would be identical.

Clem

Appleseed wrote:

alex wrote: Slow and steady wins the race.

But it can also get you killed by the dude cresting the hill at speed. I say this as I was stuck behind a dude doing 12 mph. 12! You, sir, have no business out on the road right now. Please go home before you get me killed.

Agreed. If conditions are controllable, and you actually want to get where you are going, momentum is needed in some cases.

In reply to ClemSparks:

I don't, but only because the 4WD/AWD vehicles would be slightly heavier.

Of course, I'm not sure if this would degrade braking performance by having to slow more mass from the same speed, or increase it by increasing the weight over a tire, and therefore it's traction.

Or, heck, maybe those two negate each-other and you're exactly right, lol.

During the last "big" snow here, all 4 inches of it, my 270HP turbo Volvo never put a foot wrong. That was on high-performance all seasons. I even passed an S10 on a 2 lane road. It had to be the slowest pass of all time. He was doing 15-20 and I flew past him at at 25-30.

My biggest complaint was with other drivers riding their brakes going downhill and then slipping/skidding up the next hill instead of just using momentum.

The next fun thing was drivers, 3 or 4 days after the snow, still driving as if old man winter was continuously coating their tires even though the roads were clear.

And, much like everyone else here, the stranded/stuck cars I passed were all 4x4 SUVs.

On a related note, the SC DOT sucks. One road on my daily commute was badly patched before the snow. After the snow, the asphalt crumbled. What was the DOT's response? The put up warning signs "loose gravel 25Mph." The road needed to be repaved before the snow but now the potholes are craters...but the signs make that all better.

Appleseed wrote: I say this as I was stuck behind a dude doing 12 mph. 12! You, sir, have no business out on the road right now. Please go home before you get me killed.

The last snow we had here.. all 4 inches of it. It took me an hour to go five miles.. on a divided highway with 2 lanes in each direction.. with NO hills or curves

rmarkc wrote: The next fun thing was drivers, 3 or 4 days after the snow, still driving as if old man winter was continuously coating their tires even though the roads were clear.

This has MASSIVELY increased my commute time. The mere presence of snow on the SIDE of the highway has people unable to drive. I JUST DON'T GET IT.

yes.. I noticed that too... OMG SNOW! SLOW DOWN WE ARE GOING TO DIE!

yes, there is snow on the ground.. but it is 30 feet away on somebody's lawn

mad_machine wrote: yes.. I noticed that too... OMG SNOW! SLOW DOWN WE ARE GOING TO DIE! yes, there is snow on the ground.. but it is 30 feet away on somebody's lawn

I FORGOT ABOUT THAT! There was this Camry (of course) that hit the brakes massively and slowed to 10 every time there was snow on the side of the road, or the shoulder...

rmarkc wrote: The next fun thing was drivers, 3 or 4 days after the snow, still driving as if old man winter was continuously coating their tires even though the roads were clear.

THIS!

To the old man doing 20 mph in a 55 zone in a STS AWD Caddy today, but who had no problem swerving into my lane as I overtook you, berkeley you, you moron, just because you are are too scared to actually drive doesn't mean you get to hold up everyone else.

hopefully you didn't hit him... maybe only told him he was #1 in your book ...?

No contact, but he was trying to run me off the road I cleared him as his front missed my rear end by about 2" then he swerved back onto the right lane, I was pissed, I even thought about brake checking him, I know my car would stop and he would have good insurance. Stupid geezer.

Welcome back to Ohio, Steve... While you were enjoying Dayona, the average I.Q. of Ohio drivers has dropped an average of 10 points per inch of fallen snow.

To the Self Righteous Citizens Brigade of Stone Quarry Rd. Ithaca, NY. If you feel like ILLEGALLY closing your road do so at the berkeleying END of the road, not half way up, after the steep, difficult part.

YOU.

berkeleying.

MORONS.

P.S. 1" of snow is not the end of the world.

(above rant is also on the ithaca CL R&R page)

If folks just had an inkling of an idea of what to do when their car gets out of shape, winter driving would be soo much easier.

Of course, having the right equipment helps too. A buddy of mine has a 2006 STi, and I was allowed access to it while he was out of town, as long as I bolted up the new Blizzak-shod wheels.

I've never had an easier time in the snow. The girlfriend was thoroughly impressed after the ordeal we had slipping and sliding to get the Subaru in my Camry that was only wearing it's touring tires.

Since it was not my car, I kept the hooning to a bare minimum. I did want to show the girlfriend what AWD and good snow tires could do, and accelerated full-throttle up the hill that nearly bested my Yota. The hill might as well have been totally dry, the way we rocketed up it.

Color me very impressed.

I've been preaching the "correct" tire idea to folk for a while now... no one seems to listen... the usual response is " I can't justify an extra set of rims"....

I try to point out to them how well my old Impreza does with it's real snow tires vs last yr with it's crappy no-seasons ... everyone nods their head and still calls in when there's an inch of snow.... whining "I can't get there"......

ClemSparks wrote: I'm tired...REALLY tired of folks thinking that 4wd vehicles can stop better than any other 4 wheeled vehicle. 4wd (and yes, AWD) is great for getting you out of a stuck situation, or help you get going when it's slick. I don't think I really need to extol the virtues of more driving wheels. It WILL NOT, howevery do you any good for stopping. ALL cars have 4 wheel brakes. And I dare say that stopping, or failure to, is the cause of the vast majority of weather and/or traction related accidents. I'd love to see a side-by side comparison of 4WD/AWD vehicles and their non AWD counterparts with identical tires tested under braking in adverse conditions. I think the results would be identical. Clem

A four wheel drive vehicle, which does not have a center diff, but probably has poorly balanced brakes, as was the case with most older trucks, will certainly stop STRAIGHTER with the front wheels locked to the rears, since the rear brakes can't lock up.

An all wheel drive vehicle, which has a center diff, and likely has better balanced brakes, will not benefit.

Interesting to listen to y'all bitch about the idiots that overdrive their abilities and wreck and then bitch about the people that are driving at a speed they are comfortable with but are in your way. Thank God it never snows down here or I'd be bitching right along with you.

wbjones wrote: I've been preaching the "correct" tire idea to folk for a while now... no one seems to listen... the usual response is " I can't justify an extra set of rims".... I try to point out to them how well my old Impreza does with it's real snow tires vs last yr with it's crappy no-seasons ... everyone nods their head and still calls in when there's an inch of snow.... whining "I can't get there"......

I run all seasons on the saab.. I can't justify the cost of rims, tyres, and the time of swapping them for the 2 weeks of snow we get a year...

amd I have not gotten stuck yet

I just put mine on after Thanksgiving and take them off 1st of April..... there are enough hills and mts around here + the steepness and length of my driveway to make it worth the effort

they should last several yrs that way..

wbjones wrote: I've been preaching the "correct" tire idea to folk for a while now... no one seems to listen... the usual response is " I can't justify an extra set of rims".... I try to point out to them how well my old Impreza does with it's real snow tires vs last yr with it's crappy no-seasons ... everyone nods their head and still calls in when there's an inch of snow.... whining "I can't get there"......

If you have to commute in the snow regularly, it's INSANE not to have dedicated snow tires--and yet almost no one does. Then they complain about the sketchy driving.

Meanwhile, countries like Sweden mandate that you have snow tires--imagine trying that with the tea-partiers.

My wife's job (at a college) shuts down with even minor snowfall and I STILL insisted on getting a winter wheel/tire combo for her car in case she's at school and has to drive home in the snow.

It drives me nuts when people call out of work at the sight of a few snowflakes.

I look at this way, a set of wheels and snows off of Craigs list are way cheaper than my insurance deductable.