pheller said:What do you do about it?
Remember that each and every one of us is an influencer and model, in a way that is completely unrelated to social media or photography, and are inherently using that to either be a part of the problem or a part of the solution. Choose wisely.
I think everyone should have a say on how they want to use their body.
Saying that society has influenced them to do a certain thing is a dangerous path because who exactly decides what is the "right" way? In the end it's taking away someone's rights for "the greater good".
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:I'm to the point now where I am incredibly cautious about complimenting people, particularly those of the feminine gender. I do make it a point to preface my comment with the proper posture and tone because I have no idea if the recipient of my comment is someone with a set of life experiences that will make my words a positive encounter, or if the person in question was raped last week and it will trigger pain. I've had reactions in both directions.
I often find myself commenting on something completely unrelated that has nothing to do with objectification of the person. Instead of saying "you're so beautiful," I might say something like "OMG, those SHOES are so amazing."
It's a very difficult task for someone like me who wants to promote body positivity but is also keenly aware of how one person's compliment is another person's creepy trigger.
I understand, and i don't disagree, but... "Golly, it looks like rain." "You pig! My father drowned after it rained once."
Not my problem. Your problem.
Move it into a sexual realm, and Holy snappin arseholes, I don't say anything to anyone anymore. Luckily, I lived for 30 years with a woman who mis-interpreted every single thing I said in the worst way, and told me clearly that every opinion I had was wrong as hell, so I have no problem with it all. Also, that 30 years was quite enough. I'm gonna die alone, and I'm perfectly happy with that.
The one serious topic that I don't think humans have an answer for is:
Men are still pressured and expected to initiate dating. But we are in an odd time in society where a man approaching a woman is supposed to express interest but not express interest in the "wrong" way. But I have had women express that they are ok if a man they find cute says, "Your body is ridiculously fine!" But then would be disgusted if someone they don't find cute says the same thing. So what is a man to do? I sometimes hear about the women trying to shift the paradigm to be that a woman can ask a man out without being shamed or labeled a cougar or loose or whatever the new slightly insulting label is.
Personally, I had a woman in college tell me she thought I liked her but gave up on me because I didn't "tell (her I) wanted some." It was the oddest surprise conversation in a Miami subs on the last day of classes. She stroked my head and said, "too late" so how to deal with that in the world of internet courtship adds new complexities I don't understand.
But on body image positivity, I don't understand why that should equal show skin?
There is a cartoon (and of course I can't find it now) that is two panels. On one side a geeky guy compliments a girl on her appearance but is labeled a 'creep'. In the second panel a ripped guy does the same thing and the girl has little hearts over her head and is clearly smitten by him. That, my friends, is reality.
And, having studied evolutionary biology as a hobby, will offer that the female really has little to no control over those reactions. It's biological programming. And it's no different than a male being generally helpless to 'notice' a woman's bosom. It's how we are programmed by nature (or God, if you're into that) to perpetuate the species by selecting the best specimens for breeding.
It is a fluid line between complimenting and offending because everyone's perception is different, some of which is based upon their own body image. And with the current hyper-sensitivity brought on by 'woke' culture we males are setting ourselves up for disaster saying anything to the opposite gender.
ddavidv said:There is a cartoon (and of course I can't find it now) that is two panels. On one side a geeky guy compliments a girl on her appearance but is labeled a 'creep'. In the second panel a ripped guy does the same thing and the girl has little hearts over her head and is clearly smitten by him. That, my friends, is how consent works.
FTFY
As a dad to 20, 18, and 16 year old girls I've had a bit of experience with their issues. To start, we had a long chat about digital imagery and how it's forever. So if they choose to take that naked selfie, there is no guarantee it won't resurface in 25 years when they run for Senate. Not that they can't do such, just to think about how "today" decisions can affect "then" realities.
Sexuality and its expression has been going on for over a century. It's the reach and permanence of digital that is the new twist.
In reply to KyAllroad :
A century?
Hungary Bill (Forum Supporter) said:ddavidv said:There is a cartoon (and of course I can't find it now) that is two panels. On one side a geeky guy compliments a girl on her appearance but is labeled a 'creep'. In the second panel a ripped guy does the same thing and the girl has little hearts over her head and is clearly smitten by him. That, my friends, is how consent works.
FTFY
ddavidv said:And with the current hyper-sensitivity brought on by 'woke' culture we males are setting ourselves up for disaster saying anything to the opposite gender.
I'll just say after getting divorced 6 years ago, and being engaged again now. If something happened with my current lady, I'd likely not worry about dating and just finish off life as a Bachelor.
I tried "normal" and "internet" dating after I got divorced. The relationship had been effectively over for a while before we got divorced, so I jumped back in pretty quickly. It didn't take long to stop doing either. The nicest way I can this, is that many people, have unrealistic expectations of their worth as a partner. And that works for either side.
My fiance I just happened to meet at a party held by a mutual friend, so no awkward forced blind date or setup, no scouring dating sites. Just two people that got to chatting and realized they had a lot in common and enjoyed being around the other person. And it grew from there.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to KyAllroad :
A century?
I'm not sure who did it, but the guy who originally drew Eve has been doing her wrong since the beginning of humanity.
She should be a gazillionare by now, with her naked image being used everywhere!
KyAllroad said:As a dad to 20, 18, and 16 year old girls I've had a bit of experience with their issues. To start, we had a long chat about digital imagery and how it's forever. So if they choose to take that naked selfie, there is no guarantee it won't resurface in 25 years when they run for Senate. Not that they can't do such, just to think about how "today" decisions can affect "then" realities.
That's a good strategy...I think.
...but it also raises the other question: are we becoming comfortable enough with sexuality that maybe in 25 years it won't be such a big deal? That our images, private or otherwise, will be so common across the internet that it'll kinda be "whatever?" Or maybe we'll get legislation that is more akin to European style privacy and public image distribution? They have some pretty strict rules in some countries about distributing images of people without their permission.
In reply to pheller :
Both of them have belly buttons for some reason.
KyAllroad said:As a dad to 20, 18, and 16 year old girls I've had a bit of experience with their issues. To start, we had a long chat about digital imagery and how it's forever. So if they choose to take that naked selfie, there is no guarantee it won't resurface in 25 years when they run for Senate. Not that they can't do such, just to think about how "today" decisions can affect "then" realities.
Sexuality and its expression has been going on for over a century. It's the reach and permanence of digital that is the new twist.
Sometimes the future and ramifications are hard to visualize until you have enough age and experience. Try this for a bit of making it more real. Find pictures of them at younger, bratty ages when they were dressed "funny" and doing bratty things. Show them and ask if that is how they would want people to judge them today or have they grown and changed along the way. Then continue - if you would've taken a nudie at that age because you thought it was funny and you were pretty, would you look at it today and feel the same way or would you feel different about it now? Great, now extrapolate that to now and when you're 40.
ddavidv said:There is a cartoon (and of course I can't find it now) that is two panels. On one side a geeky guy compliments a girl on her appearance but is labeled a 'creep'. In the second panel a ripped guy does the same thing and the girl has little hearts over her head and is clearly smitten by him. That, my friends, is reality.
Berk, man.
Mr_Asa said:ddavidv said:infinitenexus said: I also think that it's less important to worry about a woman's neckline, and instead we should focus on how men tend to view and treat women as a result of their neckline.If women didn't want us to look at their cleavage they wouldn't show it. That's a truth they don't want to admit. But we're misogynist creeps if we steal a glance.
Dude, if you're being labeled as a misogynist creep "stealing a glance" is not why you're being labeled as such.
Hungary Bill (Forum Supporter) said:ddavidv said:There is a cartoon (and of course I can't find it now) that is two panels. On one side a geeky guy compliments a girl on her appearance but is labeled a 'creep'. In the second panel a ripped guy does the same thing and the girl has little hearts over her head and is clearly smitten by him. That, my friends, is how consent works.
FTFY
Agreed, and I Plus Oned Bill's post, but...
Assuming an equal approach, the first guy is not automatically a creep just because the woman is not attracted to him. He is merely an unsuccessful applicant. Her response is of course at her discretion, but should be appropriately polite.
pheller said:KyAllroad said:So if they choose to take that naked selfie, there is no guarantee it won't resurface in 25 years when they run for Senate. Not that they can't do such, just to think about how "today" decisions can affect "then" realities.
That's a good strategy...I think.
...but it also raises the other question: are we becoming comfortable enough with sexuality that maybe in 25 years it won't be such a big deal? That our images, private or otherwise, will be so common across the internet that it'll kinda be "whatever?" Or maybe we'll get legislation that is more akin to European style privacy and public image distribution? They have some pretty strict rules in some countries about distributing images of people without their permission.
1) I think that whether it's a big deal is up to the individual subject of the images, now, or in the future.
2) The US also has pretty strict rules about distributing images of people without their permission. But like so many other things, people who don't pay attention to rules tend not to pay attention to rules.
As a deep rabbit hole aside.
I have, since 2005ish, thought that eventually the internet will be destroyed as we know it.
Technology will allow any audio or visual to be faked such that humans cannot reasonably tell the difference. So my daughter could never make a sex video but one will "exist" online with her face and voice.
So as humans, I hope, if my fear comes true we will just start to ignore most of what the internet is used for today. We will hopefully return to vetted sources such as confirmed or certified sources, maybe keep online shopping secure (maybe) and learn to interact in person more.
We will see. Then the OPs worries are resolved as the internet will be thought of as 100% fake except for shopping and certified news sources.
pheller said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to KyAllroad :
A century?
I'm not sure who did it, but the guy who originally drew Eve has been doing her wrong since the beginning of humanity.
She should be a gazillionare by now, with her naked image being used everywhere!
I thought you said it was black and white and your brother shot the photo....
..oh sorry. I got confused.
ddavidv said:There is a cartoon (and of course I can't find it now) that is two panels. On one side a geeky guy compliments a girl on her appearance but is labeled a 'creep'. In the second panel a ripped guy does the same thing and the girl has little hearts over her head and is clearly smitten by him. That, my friends, is reality.
And, having studied evolutionary biology as a hobby, will offer that the female really has little to no control over those reactions. It's biological programming. And it's no different than a male being generally helpless to 'notice' a woman's bosom. It's how we are programmed by nature (or God, if you're into that) to perpetuate the species by selecting the best specimens for breeding.
It is a fluid line between complimenting and offending because everyone's perception is different, some of which is based upon their own body image. And with the current hyper-sensitivity brought on by 'woke' culture we males are setting ourselves up for disaster saying anything to the opposite gender.
Nailed it man. I don't even know how single guys are supposed to court a female these days.
In reply to Countingcrowbars :
Is it really that hard to show an interest in something other than their appearance?
In reply to Driven5 :
Much like a HR department, looks is the first stage of weeding. It's not personal, it's genetics.
Birds do it best, except the guys get all the looks.
The trick is knowing when to keep the mouth shut. That's where the brain hopefully takes over. Sometimes that filter is drowned in hormones and doesn't work very well.
I'm just glad I'm over 50 and will never have to date again.
Genuine desire cannot be negotiated.
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