jstein77 said:Another argument he used was that the MSRP was set months ago, before the production and transportation costs spiked and that the factory is passing those increases to the dealer in their invoice. Plausible?
Being such an honest guy and all, he should have no problem providing you with a paper trail from the manufacturer to prove it.
So if the guy is lying, then what?
If the price isn't good enough, then keep looking. If the price is good enough, then pay for the product and be on your way. The item for sale is worth whatever somebody will pay for it. If you're that somebody then just swallow the cost and pay it. If it's deemed to be too much, for literally any reason at all, then don't.
I don't blame car salesman at all. If people refused to pay over MSRP for a vehicle, dealers wouldn't be able to add the ADM and still sell vehicles.
There are dealers in California adding a $10k ADM to new BRZ's. If you're willing to waste your money so you can say "First" more power to you, but I'm not going to do it.
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:jstein77 said:Another argument he used was that the MSRP was set months ago, before the production and transportation costs spiked and that the factory is passing those increases to the dealer in their invoice. Plausible?
That occurred to me as soon as I started reading this thread. I've been in that position with my own business. We were buying tubes of topical eye antibiotic, marking them up a couple of dollars and selling them for about $5. Bausch & Lomb bought up all of the manufacturers, and the wholesale price went to about $35 a tube. I wasn't going to sell the remaining stock at $5 a tube, as my selling price needed to be based on what it would cost me to replace the inventory.
Those are different things.
In your case the two are not related and you took the opportunity to make profit over and above. If you'd sold yours for the pre-increase price you still would have made the intended profit, bought at the new price and still made the same, or probably more, profit on those sales.
I concede it would suck to "have to" buy a car right now, but I really don't understand why people would think that a dealership should feel obligated to sell for MSRP when people are willing to pay a good amount more. If I'm going to sell far fewer cars than usual, I'd darn sure better be making more money on each one, or I'm not going to be able to cover overhead or pay my employees.
Is it wrong for the guy to make up a BS story? Sure it is. But he's just trying to make you feel better about him getting more of your money .
I told him to his face that I didn't believe it when he said it. However, he has now dropped $4k off of the price, bringing it down to the point where it's reasonable enough to pay.
In reply to 1988RedT2 :
That's a very mature encapsulation of exactly what's happening. Supply is becoming more and more constrained while consumer demand really hasn't fallen off very much. The only thing that will normalize the used car market is an abundance of new cars (and incentives).
In reply to calteg :
I honestly laugh every time a "stealership" thread comes up. As long as there is not outright fraud, why is a dealer asking a higher price considered "greedy", but a buyer wanting more car for less money not greedy?
I bought my Silverado in March amid the start of the chip supply shortage panic. I could not find the truck I wanted locally at a dealership that was willing to pay reasonably for my Wrangler as a trade in. I settled for going to my least favorite, albeit highest volume dealer in Lansing about 70 miles away. They not only had my truck (21 Custom Crew 2WD 2.7T) they had no extra mark up and gave me $2700 more than expected for my Wrangler.
There are dealers out there willing to work for you. The one you are at is not.
Driven5 said:jstein77 said:Another argument he used was that the MSRP was set months ago, before the production and transportation costs spiked and that the factory is passing those increases to the dealer in their invoice. Plausible?
Being such an honest guy and all, he should have no problem providing you with a paper trail from the manufacturer to prove it.
They have this covered. They just show you a photocopy of the "invoice" with actual numbers altered to look like they had to pay more for the cars than they did.
The dealers are now in a position that they can ask these prices and they have every right to if the market will support it. You don't have to by from them. It is the only way prices will come down is if more people don't by cars.
jharry3 said:Driven5 said:jstein77 said:Another argument he used was that the MSRP was set months ago, before the production and transportation costs spiked and that the factory is passing those increases to the dealer in their invoice. Plausible?
Being such an honest guy and all, he should have no problem providing you with a paper trail from the manufacturer to prove it.
They have this covered. They just show you a photocopy of the "invoice" with actual numbers altered to look like they had to pay more for the cars than they did.
I'm having a hard time imagining what their invoice has to do with the selling price of the car. Do you ask for the monthly rental on the property, or what their electric bill is, or what their property taxes are?
dean1484 said:The dealers are now in a position that they have to ask these prices because they have far fewer cars to sell and they have every right to if the market will support it. You don't have to by from them. It is the only way prices will come down is if more people don't by cars.
fixed
I have a hard time understanding why cars have a MSRP. It has never had much to do with what a car sells for.
For the 6 months I was at the GMC/Buick dealer every truck was sold before it hit the lot for 3k over sticker plus whatever accessories sales decided to slap on them. We had people flying in from Colorado, Wyoming, Florida to buy them.
Streetwiseguy said:jharry3 said:Driven5 said:jstein77 said:Another argument he used was that the MSRP was set months ago, before the production and transportation costs spiked and that the factory is passing those increases to the dealer in their invoice. Plausible?
Being such an honest guy and all, he should have no problem providing you with a paper trail from the manufacturer to prove it.
They have this covered. They just show you a photocopy of the "invoice" with actual numbers altered to look like they had to pay more for the cars than they did.
I'm having a hard time imagining what their invoice has to do with the selling price of the car. Do you ask for the monthly rental on the property, or what their electric bill is, or what their property taxes are?
The fake invoice is used as a persuasion tool.
As in "Look, I paid $XXX for this and I am only making $YY on this great deal I am giving to you. Don't let my manager know I showed you the invoice".
A few times I've seen newly dropped off cars with a different sticker on the window stating it is a vehicle NOT FOR SALE. It matches the Monroney size and format.
Then at some point there will be a sticker on the vehicle. So where are the Monroney stickers printed? Wouldn't the factory send out new stickers?
In reply to Duke :
Because it does not do a buyer any good to be a lying pos that will talk out of both side of their face to try and get more money! 
Local Ford dealer allegedly bought a highly optioned Bronco from a competing dealer for a bit over MSRP so he could have one in his showroom.
Use the internet. Find the vehicle you want and find a dealer willing to work with you.
I bought mine for sticker. Didn't negotiate. I knew the market is tight and it doesn't do you any good right now. About the only thing I wish it had was better seats.
In reply to Datsun310Guy :
I need a big sticker for every single car I own that says "Not for Sale". I'm tired of people asking.
Ranger50 said:I bought mine for sticker. Didn't negotiate. I knew the market is tight and it doesn't do you any good right now. About the only thing I wish it had was better seats.
I ordered my gladiator and was able to get 6% under invoice a few months ago. You just have to find the right dealer and be willing to order a vehicle since they will usually not budge on anything on the lot.
In reply to Datsun310Guy :
cause that is likely a dealer mannequin which they cant sell for 6ish months, they still have the same Monroney as everything else.
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