Career stuff

I'm 31, married with 2 kids (2yo and 6mo) and I sell parts at a dealer. Single income. I have 30ish credits from the local U. We do OK. But time is starting to haul serious ass. I never really planned much and here I am. Thinking about slowly chugging away at (probably) BS in ME, or hauling balls through the local tech (probably welding). I live in southwest UT so a career in either would very likely mean eventual relocation. I'm pretty satisfied working in this side of the auto industry but I don't know how happy I'll be with a desision to stay in say, 10 years. I know education is the key and I am more concerned with being productive and being satisfied with work than making a ton of money. Also I don't mind labor.

Thoughts? Thanks.

As an ME, I advise young people that the trades are where its at if you want to make money doing real work (not necessarily breaking your back, but not sitting behind a desk 40 hours a week). If I was going back to school tomorrow, I'd get my welding certification.

I only really enjoyed the days that E36 M3 was hitting the fan when I was working as an engineer. As the low man on the totem pole, I was the designated "go talk to the peons and figure out how to fix it" guy. I loved that. Just really didn't deal well with the desk work as a 22 y.o. graduate.

Edit: I say "young people" because its usually teenagers or young 20-somethings. I'm your age.

John is right on the money there.  you sound like you'd enjoy being a welder.  and you can make good money at it, if you're good *and* if it's (eventually) your name on the side of the truck.

You can actually do both. When I was going to school at night I was working full time running a printing press. Both fed each other, as my degree is in technical communications.

Maybe find a job at a welding supply company and work on a materials engineering degree. At my school the materials engineering folks had ALL the fun. Fully stocked workshop, CNC stuff, and pretty much unlimited access during the week.

I should add that while wife is willing to pick up a job I'd rather not put kiddos in daycare unless it is the only option. Our only debt is my car, which we're on track to have paid for in a year. And housing is taken care of for the foreseeable future. By far our single biggest monthly expense is the car. 

Welding good.  School bad.  Except maybe Welding School.  I have recommended to my 2 step grand children to pursue something in the trades such as welding, plumber, electrician, etc.  Something that is difficult to outsource.  I will just point out that one of the leading Democrat presidential contenders for 2020, when he was Vice President, went to Russia and told them that "they" were going to do for Russian engineers what "they" did for Indian IT workers, that is, outsource all the US jobs to those countries.  Now, Russians are bad again, so that didn't happen, but that is dangling out there.  Welding, they are going to have a hard time outsourcing to China.  The English did manage to out source plumbing to Poland, but we don't have that political structure and lack of borders, so that will be much more difficult here.

The 2 step grandchildren, well, let's just say that the older didn't listen at all.  The younger is still in high school.  I doubt he will listen either.

Try to specialize in the welding stuff.  Stainless. Maybe other exotic metals.  Pipelines.  That kind of thing.

When I was laid off in 1991, I really regret not going to tech school to study automation/robotics.  

And I already have a BS and MS.  

Attending part time, a 4 year bachelors degree becomes an 8 year headache.  As the head of a single-income household with two small kids you're way past the point where trying to get a BS/BA makes sense.  Going forward, any classes you take should be ones that directly teach you marketable skills.

Skilled labor that works in the field is becoming impossible to find. 

I am on a project now that needs a certified welder, and all the resources of a $100 million company with 5 separate offices can’t seem to find one. 

Downside... It’s in the field. That means some travel. 

Upside... It’s in the field. That means the boss is not breathing down your neck as long as you get the work done. 

I do commercial construction supervision. I never get an air conditioned office, and I sleep in hotels. But I get 3 day weekends every week, 6 figures is pretty common, and job security is huge. I get about 50 hits a month on my LinkedIn page, and head hunters call me every week. My company just gave me a 35% pay bump in order to keep me around. 

My company has 33 Gus with my same job title. I’m 57- there are only 3 younger than me. The 20 year look-ahead looks really promising. 

Its the same for all skilled field tradesmen. 

In reply to barefootskater :

Here’s the truth, trades are wonderful if you are young and fit. Assuming your going to live a long full life is a smarter approach 

At some time around 50 the physical work of the trades will wear on your body and yes you might be able to drag yourself over the finish line but I sure wouldn’t bet my retirement on it.  

About the time your body wears out your brain will really be coming into it’s peak. Sitting at a desk in your 50’s is a good thing.  

Take your 30ish credits and use them to get hired for a company willing to use your skills now and brains later.  Have them pay your tuition and go nice and steady.   

Option 3:

My old man is a self employed plumber. I used to work full time with him, and still help out on odd jobs. The offer to work, train and take over is mine anytime. Reasons I have yet to take up the offer: hours are extremely sporadic (difficult with trying to help raise kiddos), I pretty much loath the idea of running a business for myself (i'm not as self motivated as I should be), and I've experienced enough of the work to be comfortable with it as a backup plan but ideally not on a permanent basis. I also do not get much satisfaction from the work itself, I much prefer to produce than maintain, if that makes sense.

In reply to frenchyd :

I will have to disagree with Frenchyd on this one.

I walk through the Boeing factory on a regular basis. I see all those engineers sitting in their cubicles and staring at their computer screens. It makes me glad every time that I didn't go the college route. I'd be miserable. 

I'll be 52 this year. As the guy that owns the joint, I still get out in the field and do the work every chance I get, which is most days. I pay an admin pretty good money so I don't have to do the majority of the desk work. Sitting at a desk 8 hours a day would be a death sentence for me. 

The key to longevity is to work smarter, not harder.  

Toyman01 said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I will have to disagree with Frenchyd on this one.

I walk through the Boeing factory on a regular basis. I see all those engineers sitting in their cubicles and staring at their computer screens. It makes me glad every time that I didn't go the college route. I'd be miserable. 

I'll be 52 this year. As the guy that owns the joint, I still get out in the field and do the work every chance I get, which is most days. I pay an admin pretty good money so I don't have to do the majority of the desk work. Sitting at a desk 8 hours a day would be a death sentence for me. 

52 is barely 50. However the carpenters union retires with full benefits at 55 because injuries and slowdowns makes older carpenters no longer competitive.   

Contractors want younger  faster workers.  You don’t often see men in their 60’s climbing ladders to put a beam in place.  Nor do you see masons of 60 plus on the scaffold laying stone and block  

Yes there are always exceptions.  There are always exceptions but betting goes towards the norm or average.  

But if you carefully read what I posted I suggested he work in a trade until he’s older and then he can work as management or something more suited to his age.  

Accept and embrace your mortality.  Recognize that as you age you won’t be able to do the things of your youth.  But you have knowledge and experience. Things of value to a.business/company. 

Not everyone will reach retirement. Death, accidental or by disease will take some. Mental and physical disruptions  will take others.  Life changes,  loss of interest, drugs and alcohol, and other reasons, reduce competition for management positions. Age overtakes other managers.  Positions open up as a result. 

spitfirebill said:

The key to longevity is to work smarter, not harder.  

Don’t forget, you are mortal. You will either get older or die.  

When I had my shop slab poured, the youngest man on the crew was 40.  The boss tried to avoid hiring younger men.  He said you had to go pick them up at their house because their car was broken, or bail them out of jail, etc.

I own a welding/fab shop and have 3 employees.

I've taught several employees to weld (mig) from zero experience. They had good attitudes and a willingness to learn.

I wouldn't say welding is the ultimate job...it's like anything else, those who specialize and are good, are in demand.

You can be a 'mig monkey,' welding the same simple parts everyday, for little pay.

You can travel and be a pipe welder, which is big $$$, but you earn it, and may have to be away or otherwise in a man-camp for long stretches.

I love what I do, we have a great mix of interesting work, but most places aren't like mine, and of course:

Owning my own business > welding.  

In reply to frenchyd :

That may be the case up where you are. Locally, I would bet the average construction worker that is in a trade, is over 40. 

In reply to frenchyd :

Sorry Frenchy. That’s just not the case. 

Companies want TALENT.  That usually comes with experience, which usually comes with age. 

The only young guys I am seeing these days are laborers. Construction companies hire LOTS of older guys. 

And being in construction is NOT a death sentence or poor health sentence for older guys. I’m 57, and am in much better health than most guys 10 years younger than me. I rode a desk for a while. It nearly killed me. I’m thrilled to be back in the saddle. 

Great stuff so far. Thanks. Keep it coming and do your best to agree to disagree where necessary. Civility wins in the end.  

My current project as an example:

Site crew. 12 men. Average age of laborers is about 25, average age of operators is over  50. Average age of crew leaders about 45

Steel workers. 8 men. 1 in his 20’s, 2 in their 30’s. The rest average nearly 50. Crew leadership is over 55

Masons. 8 Mexicans and 1 gringo. Average age about 40. Crew leadership is all over 50. 

Concrete workers. 35 Mexicans. Average age between 30 and 35. But there are several in their 50’s

Plumbers. 5 men. Average age about 30

Electricians. Entire crew under 25. They are terrible, and we are all concerned they will hurt someone. Juvenile. Their crew leader is 67- the only good one of the bunch. 

Carpenters. 12 men. Average age about 35

Equipment installers. 4 men. Average age nearly 50. 

Painters are all older than God

Glazers- another young crew. Under 30. Again, we are not comfortable with them. They make a lot of mistakes.

Roofers- there are some young guys on that crew, plus several over 60. 

HVAC- about 35

I will admit it is different in residential work. Crews are younger. But that’s not working smarter. 

nderwater said:

Attending part time, a 4 year bachelors degree becomes an 8 year headache.  As the head of a single-income household with two small kids you're way past the point where trying to get a BS/BA makes sense.  Going forward, any classes you take should be ones that directly teach you marketable skills.

I only agree with part of this. There are contributing factors to take into consideration. It certainly is doable. I did it. I used my GI Bill to get my BA while working full time, owning/taking care of a house and 2 teenage daughters at the time after I retired from the military at age 38. Was 45 when I finished my degree and it helped tip the scales to a couple promotions. It was a desk job then onto class after work for several years.

Which is OP best route is what his goals are and which he could afford. In my case, college was paid for. Probably not in his case. So years of that expense can take its toll. I know I just got tired of the long days and lost weekends writing papers to use up the rest of my GI Bill towards a Masters. Wouldn't really help me much in my career anyway. Again in my case I just couldn't see myself crawling up & down aircraft when I got close to 60 so wanted something behind a desk. Started behind a desk before I really wanted to but now that I am 60 I don't regret it.

Have to weigh all the factors, financial, family, current desire and future desire to make a decision that is best for you. Nothing wrong with the trades and there is certainly a need for tradesmen. And the trades can certainly pay well too. My dad used to tell me that there is always a market for someone that is good at something, be that good whatever you decide to be and you'll always be sought after. An exaggeration but you get the intent. I did both, I have an A&P license and a BA degree. Got the A&P in my 20's and BA in my 40's. If you like to weld and want to get into welding then do it right, get the proper training and getting certifications help. If you decide college, just know that it will be a lot of work and sacrifice. You won't have much of a social life.

In reply to wlkelley3 :

That’s a good word on training and certifications. 

On commercial sites, I need people who can handle themselves in accordance with OSHA guidelines, carry operator licenses, get lots of training and certifications in safety, hazmats, DOT regs, utilities licensing, the list goes on and on. 

The difference between a commercial carpenter and a residential carpenter is sometimes which one is certified to operate a scissor lift and will wear a hard hat, and which one is not. 

... and a pay scale that is nearly double. 

An engineer doesn't have to spend their career locked in a cubicle.  You mentioned mechanical engineering, and just like any other engineering discipline there are about a million different kinds of work you could be involved in, and many of them will have you out in the field on a regular basis.  You'll make decent money to start, and can do quite well over time if you want.

My BIL is a mechanical engineer who works for a large state agency writing the specs for *all* the vehicles that agency will purchase. 

His job entails visiting manufactures, field offices to see how the vehicles are holding up, etc.  He ends up spending quite a bit of time away from his desk.