dculberson wrote:Kenny_McCormic wrote: you can't run CFL in a droplight.??? I have three in drop lights in my garage. I suppose if you actually drop them all the time you might have trouble, but try not dropping them. ;-)
I also have one in my drop light in my garage and I have dropped it, not far but it was far enough that a normal bulb (Not a rough service bulb) would have failed. And I don't burn my self on the metal reflector since the bulb runs way cooler then a normal bulb!
You drop-light guys really need to try one of these LED ones:
It'll change your life!
Javelin wrote: In reply to dculberson: I live in the Arctic Tundra. I've timed the CFL flood lamps in the kitchen, it took over 90 seconds in the summer and 4.5 minutes in the winter. The regular CFL's take between 20 and 90 seconds every where else in the house. It's a 1996 house with no electrical issues and 4 year old insulation (max) and siding (hardi-plank). It's even been Green Certified. There's no reason to have such poor performance, but we do. And I suffer from migraines (and have for 9 years). The fluorescent light *kills* me, but it also drives the wifey nuts. I find the "natural daylight" incandescent bulbs to give a much better light.
I do not have the same problems with warm-up that you do. And it gets plenty cold here. We keep the house at 65 in the winter, and it was built in 1957 so insulation is what minimal stuff has been added over the years. Maybe your bulbs are all really lousy, but mine are great.
I do sympathize with the migraines. I bet it's not just the color, but the flicker - the flicker of the fluorescents is definitely an issue with migraines. I think for me that would be a bigger issue than any of the rest of them. Even the 400hz that they run a lot of the electronic ballasts at is still a flicker and it can cause problems for flicker-sensitive people.
Javelin wrote:carguy123 wrote: When you hear the difference in generator note between turning on a traditional bulb and a CFL it brings home the energy savings.Power costs how many cents per kilowatt hour? CFL's are how many dollars more expensive per bulb than incandescents? The math will never work, trust me. I'm all about lowering our consumption though (even though our power is all hydro or wind up here), so I'd love to switch to all LED's. That currently takes some cubic dollars.
I don't think you're doing the math very well. A standard CFL bulb nowadays is around $3, less if bought on sale. An incandescent is around $1. The CFL will have a rated life of 10,000 hours whereas the incandescent will have a rated life of around 750 hours. Just the bulb cost alone puts the CFL ahead by $10. The power usage - assuming the US average cost of $.12/kwh over those 10,000 hours - puts the CFL ahead by $92.40. So total the CFL is ahead by $102.40 per bulb per 10,000 hours.
I would say about 90% of our house is CFL and apart from the dimming thing they are great. IF the light they give off bothers you cool, don't use them but to say they are crap is, well, crap.
<blockquote People freak about the mercury in a CFL but the stuff we all deal with every day is just as dangerous or more so because it's easily aerosolized and we are exposed to so much of it. It's a trivial amount and it does not represent a significant hazard to a healthy adult. I remember playing with the mercury from a broken thermometer as a kid and I turned out [twitch] fine [twitch] .
I did that as a kid as well. Took apart a mercury light switch and a thermostat to get at the mercury. Played with it and showed my friends. I think I or one of my sisters ended up dropping/spilling it where it ended up as little balls on the basement floor. Cleaned up what I could see and the rest was left there where it may still be. My parents sold that house over 40 yrs ago!
Not a fan of CFL's. Even so, I use them in places that are hard to get to, since they do seem to last longer than incandescents.
I was so attracted to the idea of LED lighting, that I bought a flood for use in my kitchen lights. It lasted like 2 weeks, then went dark. I got my money back. I'm sure LED's last damn near forever, but not so the crappy made-in-China electronics that support them. LOL.
In reply to dculberson:
Jeeze prices have fluctuated since we did this 3 years ago. I paid ~$5 per CFL for the regulars (the damn kitchen ones were like $20 a pop) and the regulars were about 40 cents per if you got a case at Wally World.
Hopefully the LED's drop as dramatically, no?
Javelin wrote: You drop-light guys really need to try one of these LED ones:
No heat and probably a year of life on every set of batteries...very nice.
Rusted_Busted_Spit wrote: I would say about 90% of our house is CFL and apart from the dimming thing they are great. IF the light they give off bothers you cool, don't use them but to say they are crap is, well, crap.
Sorry man, but the facts is the facts for my house. Long warm-up, poor reliability, and migraine-induction are all crap by anybodies play book. Maybe they are great for others, but after 3 years they are enough for me, for those objective, quantifiable reasons alone. No opinions about it.
I'll gladly mail you my collection of burnt out ones if you can tell me why they failed so soon. Berking Waste Control won't recycle them here in town.
GameboyRMH wrote:Javelin wrote: You drop-light guys really need to try one of these LED ones:No heat and probably a year of life on every set of batteries...very nice.
The thinner light part makes it easier to sandwich into greasy engine bits, too.
In reply to Javelin:
The math works out REALLY REALLY quickly.
If a bulb is on 3 hours per day, that's 1000 hours per year.
If it's a 60-watt incandescent, that's 60kWh/year, or $6. If it's a 15-watt fluorescent, that's 15kWh/year, or $1.50.
They pay for themselves in under a year - and significantly less for high-power or heavily-used bulbs.
Even a $50 LED will pay for itself well before its lifespan, especially if it's time-consuming to change the bulb.
Slowly switched our whole house over, no big deal. Never notice a "warm up" time either. I love CFLs in a drop light, no worry about branding myself on a hot bulb.
I mix LEDs in with my halogen fixtures to bring down the power strain on the old fixture wiring. The CFL halogen replacements are lousy in comparison to the LEDs.
I might consider putting incandescent bulbs back in for the winter just for the extra heat.
Javelin wrote: You drop-light guys really need to try one of these LED ones:
I've tried a lot over the years, including fluorescent and LED, and I've yet to find something that can beat this old type, with an incadescent bulb in it.
The fluorescent types don't seem to throw any light beyond 6", and the LED ones with their blueish hue don't illuminate anything, no matter how much the glare makes me squint.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: that and you can't run CFL in a droplight.
Cool story.
Will you go into my garage and tell the one I've been using for three years to stop working?
Javelin wrote:Rusted_Busted_Spit wrote: I would say about 90% of our house is CFL and apart from the dimming thing they are great. IF the light they give off bothers you cool, don't use them but to say they are crap is, well, crap.Sorry man, but the facts is the facts for my house. Long warm-up, poor reliability, and migraine-induction are all crap by anybodies play book. Maybe they are great for others, but after 3 years they are enough for me, for those objective, quantifiable reasons alone. No opinions about it. I'll gladly mail you my collection of burnt out ones if you can tell me why they failed so soon.
Do you wonder why alfa made his comment in the F1 thread?
Javelin wrote: Berking Waste Control won't recycle them here in town.
Most Lowes/Home Depots etc. have a recyling collection point near customer service. Just put 'em in the big standup box.
Duke wrote:Javelin wrote: Berking Waste Control won't recycle them here in town.Most Lowes/Home Depots etc. have a recyling collection point near customer service. Just put 'em in the big standup box.
Hey, thanks! 
I don't shop those, so I didn't know, and we have one of each in town. That'll clear up some garage storage.
I'm not a fan either. I think the issue really is in the switch or fixture though. The ones in my kitchen seem to only last 6-9 months, the one in my porch light has been in there for a few years. I'll be stocking up on heat lamps until LED's become less offensive to my wallet.
z31maniac wrote:Kenny_McCormic wrote: that and you can't run CFL in a droplight.Cool story. Will you go into my garage and tell the one I've been using for three years to stop working?
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Kenny_McCormic wrote:z31maniac wrote:Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.Kenny_McCormic wrote: that and you can't run CFL in a droplight.Cool story. Will you go into my garage and tell the one I've been using for three years to stop working?
Why shouldn't you?
How much mercury in a CFL? About 4 or 5 milligrams. Doesn't sound like much, until you multiply that by the number of lightbulbs in the world. Might amount to a wee bit o' mercury, eh? And what percentage of spent bulbs do you really think are going to be recycled?
I'll just leave this here: http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=aa7796aa-e4a5-4c06-be84-b62dee548fda
I use CFL's in a few places. I leave my kitchen light on from waking until bed, so it makes a difference in power there and since it only gets cycled once a day when I get up, the bulbs (3 in the fixture) seem to last a long time.
One of our clients has stated all of the new fixtures in a project I'm designing will be LED. For them, the up-front costs are saved due to the greatly reduced maintenance since they aren't paying somebody to relamp fixtures every year or more. The power savings over standard fluorescents is a small bonus.
I just spec'd another project with LED fixtures for a similar reason - relamping the current fixtures (250W metal halides) is a maintenance PITA due to stationary equipment. It remains to be seen if they'll choke on the estimated $1000/ea fixture cost. And there's 50 of them. Granted, these are stainless-steel framed cleanroom fixtures, so they were never going to be cheap.
1988RedT2 wrote: How much mercury in a CFL? About 4 or 5 milligrams. Doesn't sound like much, until you multiply that by the number of lightbulbs in the world. Might amount to a wee bit o' mercury, eh? And what percentage of spent bulbs do you really think are going to be recycled? I'll just leave this here: http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=aa7796aa-e4a5-4c06-be84-b62dee548fda
That is the most ridiculously over the top breathless incident and you present it as if it's a reasonable argument. How much would an EPA certified clean-up company find wrong in your garage (or driveway), and how much would they charge you to clean up the heavy metals, solvent, and toxin contamination they almost certainly would find? Knock over a pint of brake fluid and call the EPA, then you'd find yourself tearing out your garage floor and having it re-poured. It has little to do with the actual danger and much to do with perception and over-reaction.
Also, the amount of mercury released by discarding a CFL bulb is lower than the amount of mercury released by powering incandescent bulbs with a coal power plant over the 10,000 hour life of the CFL bulb. Coal power is the single largest source of mercury pollution in modern America, not CFL bulbs.
http://www.epa.gov/hg/about.htm From the horse's mouth.
Ian F wrote: I just spec'd another project with LED fixtures for a similar reason - relamping the current fixtures (250W metal halides) is a maintenance PITA due to stationary equipment. It remains to be seen if they'll choke on the estimated $1000/ea fixture cost. And there's 50 of them. Granted, these are stainless-steel framed cleanroom fixtures, so they were never going to be cheap.
Amazingly we just installed two $1000 LED light fixtures in our parking lot. I figured out that just the electricity savings alone would pay for the fixtures in less than the warranty period for the fixtures. Adding in that (1) they should out-last the warranty, (2) we had to rent a lift to change the old sodium bulbs, and (3) they look cool as hell, it seemed like a great deal.
Seriously they save us $300/year in power. I wish I could do that with every lamp in the building. Anybody want to loan me a few hundred grand interest free? ;-)
dculberson wrote: http://www.epa.gov/hg/about.htm From the horse's mouth.
Can't believe you'd cite a govt website as an authoritative source. LOL. I think you've got a credibility issue.
And exactly how is my garage relevant to mercury in CFL's?
You'll need to log in to post.
