College money. Holy carp.

It's been about 20 years since I finished college. It seemed expensive then. I knew it was even more expensive now, but it wasn't until I got the itemized bill for Deucekid#1's first semester that I realized just how insane it was. A good state school, not one of the big 2 in Texas, but one of the next level, for four years, without books, will be over $100k. Based on what we have saved since the kid was born, we would have needed to double the $2k a year we've saved. Had be ween able to estimate things properly we would have needed to put away $4k a year over the last 16 years. $333 a month. And we've been on the good end of growth of money over the last 16 years which makes it a lot cheaper than doing the reverse and paying off loans in the other direction. 

I'm just blown away. 

And they want uneducated kids to sign their life away to this. The student loans are as big a problem as health costs for today’s youth. 

It's berkeleying bullE36 M3, but just wait until you start getting the letters from them patting themselves on the back for "only" raising tuition by a couple thousand because they know the economy has taken a downturn.

I broke stuff and stole things from my alma mater.  I'm not sorry and I'm still mad- glad I have the degree, but we should have gotten so much more for so much less.

I consider it both a blessing and a curse that I was never able to afford college. That said, I have been watching an astrophysics class on youtube and loving it, so maybe I would have done well enough in college to make the mind blowing debt worth it. 

Think of it this way:

When your kid is born, set aside $100 per week, every single week for eighteen years.

You're still probably going to come up short.

^Think of it this way before you have kids.

The big business of higher education! 

So easy for you to borrow money and give it to them with little requirement that they give you much back. 

Its nuts. 

My son has ~15 years before he goes.  I put away money for it, but not aggressively.  I am aggressively saving for my own retirement.  If I retire in 10-15 years like I am aiming, I'll happily work an extra year or two to pay for it (assuming he wants it, good grades, reasonable degree/career aspirations, etc.)

I’m one year away from that first bill and I’m scared. Despite many years of aggressive saving, it’ll still take from now until the day they graduate to put enough away for an in-state undergraduate degree. 

If you take nothing else from this post - start saving early.

I suggested to my wife that our boys consider joining IBEW, start working right away in an industry that has dwindling numbers.. reach journeyman status in a few years and have the opportunity to work for themselves or for the man. As a physical therapist, she sees the wear and tear and thinks it’s a bad idea. 

I’m not convinced yet. 

I have twins about to start their senior year in HS, so I'm staring down the barrel of this. It's probably not going to be possible for them to do it without some student loans, but we'll try to minimize it as much as possible.

Our local district has a "13th year" of high school available which allows kids to graduate high school  and receive an associates at the same time.  Fortunately, Kazoo Jr. is perfectly happy with that plan.  The last 2(ish) years will no doubt be expensive.  It's gotten to the point where I'm recommending that a lot of the young people I know at least explore trades.  Most entry level degreed jobs don't really beat the $25-30/hr that I'm seeing for sheet metal workers, welders, electricians or certified mechanics.   In fact, I suspect a lot of college graduates would be thrilled to make that kind of money.  

I signed up for prepaid college for both kids as soon as they were born. When I went bankrupt and lost my practice in 2011, I had to liquidate it for rent.

Oldest is 14, younger is 11, I'm 62 and I'm still paying off wife's and my loans (everything went into deferment while trying to save the practice).

Thanks, Wells Fargo. 

Glad I have only one and the Post 911 GI Bill!

kazoospec said:

Our local district has a "13th year" of high school available which allows kids to graduate high school  and receive an associates at the same time.  Fortunately, Kazoo Jr. is perfectly happy with that plan.  The last 2(ish) years will no doubt be expensive.  It's gotten to the point where I'm recommending that a lot of the young people I know at least explore trades.  Most entry level degreed jobs don't really beat the $25-30/hr that I'm seeing for sheet metal workers, welders, electricians or certified mechanics.   In fact, I suspect a lot of college graduates would be thrilled to make that kind of money.  

Dental hygiene makes pretty good money with an associates degree. 

I teach in a small private college with an economically diverse population. Much as I am an advocate of a traditional liberal arts education, I also am the first to say that it is not worth the commitment in time and money for everyone. For students who can benefit from it and who want to do so, fine; for those uncertain of what their path might be going forward or who are not inclined to academic work, there are a lot of other options out there that should be given serious consideration. The conventional wisdom that college is a necessity is based on a flawed set of assumptions and generally works to the detriment of almost everyone.

The education cartel is a joke. Besides the out of control ever increasing costs, they also produce a lot of people who haven't learned much at all that makes them employable and they get their brains full of wrong ideas about life and the world. 

If I had a child of that age now, I would tell them to get a STEM degree or don't bother going. Learn a trade instead. 

Katie and Tom both applied to private schools; Tom was accepted and got a scholarship thanks to his IB degree that made the tuition and room and board about $15k per year, while Katie’s choice accepted her, but said it didn't consider the caliber of high school classes, only the GPA, so she would've had a scholarship if she’d taken 4 years of PE, but with her tougher IB degree they wanted >$200K for an undergraduate degree.

I told her that at that price, she needed to be qualified to open an abdomen, not a Dillard’s in the mall, when she graduated. After some crying and gnashing of teeth, she took a scholarship from her B choice.

Both kids graduated debt-free, which—more than any other variable short of maybe a degree from the Wharton School complete with adult contacts—is probably the single biggest predictor of success after college. (Pssst: pass it along: it’s not worth debt.)

Margie

In reply to kazoospec :

My niece did a program like that. Still to be decided if it was the right choice for her, but she's starting "real" college in a couple of weeks too. She has a scholarship for about 1/3, subsidized loans for 1/3, and for reasons, we're paying the other 1/3. We sort of predicted this when she was born and have saved about 1/2 of the money we'll spend on her over the next 2-3 years. We had a sit down with her two weeks ago, looked over the paperwork, and saw the situation she was is. She had just under four weeks to either come up with $5k or sign on the dotted line for some truly terrible loans. 18 years old and she's asked to take on 6.5% loans that will compound on themselves until she starts paying and she's looking at three years of undergrad and if all goes well 3-4 years in a medical school of some sort (animal or people). 

Easy financing, everyone can afford to spend more, housing prices skyrocket.... same for colleges.  The more options they come up with to "afford" college, the worse it will get.  I heard of one recently, where they will attach your wages when you get a job!! You know, like buying a car: How much does that car cost?  $250 a month... 

Junior colleges for the 1st two years is clearly a good idea.

I do feel a bit sorry for those sending kids to college in the near future.  Prices have shot up and at some point, someone is going to break the cartel and everyone will realized there is NO reason to spend big bucks to send someone to a school when 90% (depending on degree) can be done at home, or in an electronic classroom....then again...

... if you consider 100k a year to get to go to some good parties a good investment...

Marjorie Suddard said:

 

Both kids graduated debt-free, which—more than any other variable short of maybe a degree from the Wharton School complete with adult contacts—is probably the single biggest predictor of success after college.

We figured this out when I graduated with debt and my wife to be didn't. Race budget has come AFTER college money and AFTER retirement money. Race budget has been very small. 

What’s crazy/scary to me, is when I worked for uhaul the amount of parents moving they’re kids back home after they’ve gotten degrees and still couldn’t get job for nothing. And this from big 3 colleges here in texas

Figure out ways to cut those costs - my son was an RA for two years and then finished in 3-1/2 years - those AP classes in high school paid off.  He also worked every Thanksgiving and Christmas break at Target when home from school and put money towards his expenses- it can be done if you focus.  

I should mention it's definitely worth doing some research into available funding options on a school-by-school basis. My GF is the director of a wholly grant-funded program (zero public dollars) at a community college that will cover any funding gaps after other financial aid options have been exhausted, making for what amounts to a free AA degree as long as it's completed in three years, with books and dedicated counseling to boot. And it's fully transferable to any four-year state school. But it's only available at that particular school.

Being a career lowly enlisted soldier I wasn't able to save a lot for my 2 daughters. The oldest qualified for scholarships but messed them up when she got to college and lost them. Both decided to do college the hard way. I made them take at least one class every semester at the local community college, easier to add classes than to start classes. I paid tuition and most of the books, they had to work and pick up the rest. For a while both were in college at the same time even though they are 4 years apart, 5 grade levels apart. After they grew up and settled done both knuckled down and finished. They had to have their wild time. That's ok, I understood as I did too. The oldest just made GS-13 Program Manager with the Corps of Engineers, same level as dad (me). She'll out do me before too long. The youngest is an RN and doing well. I went to night school using my GI Bill and got my degree at age 45. None of us went to a big name college but we have degrees we worked for. Both have told me that their degrees and certification means more to them having to work for them than compared to their friends that went to big name universities straight out of high school. My son from my first marriage did similar and worked his way through college. He has a Masters in Database Management and a good job with an investment firm. His wife worked her way through her Masters in Physicians Assistant. My oldest daughters husband worked his way through to a degree and just got picked up as a civilian Contracts Specialist for the Army. Maybe took a while but they are all productive and can take care of themselves now so I'm proud of them.

I have a 16 year old nephew and a 15 year old niece.  All their friends are "going to college".  3 of them can tell you what they plan to do with their life.

02Pilot said:

I teach in a small private college with an economically diverse population. Much as I am an advocate of a traditional liberal arts education, I also am the first to say that it is not worth the commitment in time and money for everyone. For students who can benefit from it and who want to do so, fine; for those uncertain of what their path might be going forward or who are not inclined to academic work, there are a lot of other options out there that should be given serious consideration. The conventional wisdom that college is a necessity is based on a flawed set of assumptions and generally works to the detriment of almost everyone.

THIS.  In freakin' SPADES.

I teach high school.  High school is all about pushing you to University. Almost ZERO students I have taught come out of a degree with a job in that field.

I've also crunched numbers (locally), that I share with my students EVERY SEMESTER.

Taking local cost of books/tuituon (UBC-O), assume you live at home and make zero money (not realistic, but let's roll with it), taking into account the average salary of a degree field, and compare it to starting off in a trade.

Unless you make 25% MORE MONEY in a degree field, you will NEVER catch the money you make in a TRADE after 32 years of working.

Your mileage may vary.