Commuting by e-Bike

As an avid rider, one of the more interesting things about the big increase of ebikes is the departure from typical bike geometries. 

For example, the most popular segment of ebikes are those like RadPower. They are essentially beefed up hybrid bikes that 20 years ago were associated with senior citizens and Danish commuters. 

Now you can cruise around without hardly leaning over, at 30mph, barely breaking a sweat, and still have a step-thru frame with disc brakes and big tires. The potential for speed (and capablity) doesn't match the geometry of the bike. 

On the opposite end of the spectrum, you've got the electric motorcycle like the Sur-Ron, and it's taken the best elements of a downhill mountain bike and meshed it with a small dirt bike and produced something that is far more capable than either, especially when it comes to single track and hare scrambles. These things are dangerous when ridden on hiking trails, and probably dangerous on many purpose built MTB trails too. All the performance and speed of a moto without any noise (which is one of the big complaints against MTBers). 

I still think we'll never have the level of bicycle commuters of Europe and I think that's largely because our American culture only sees "discomfort" as something you do when your working out, not when your commuting to work or errands. That and we're way too attached to business "attire". If I could show up to work in shorts 

Personally, I'd like to see more cart-like electric vehicles. Something like a RZR or side-by-side that is enclosed, limited to 35mph, but could do a weeks worth of errands on a single charge. Under $10k. If these became more popular, roads could be designed around such vehicles. Communities (in cities at least) could be designed around the idea that you'd have this little electric cart things for most day-to-day activities and your actual car or truck would sit most of the time. Design the cart to haul kids and integrate with rear facing child seats. 

pheller said:

On the opposite end of the spectrum, you've got the electric motorcycle like the Sur-Ron, and it's taken the best elements of a downhill mountain bike and meshed it with a small dirt bike and produced something that is far more capable than either, especially when it comes to single track and hare scrambles. These things are dangerous when ridden on hiking trails, and probably dangerous on many purpose built MTB trails too. All the performance and speed of a moto without any noise (which is one of the big complaints against MTBers).

Not probably dangerous. 100% dangerous. There was a head on collusion with a Sur-Ron and an mtb rider that left the mtb rider with a broken jaw on a trail where the Sur-ron was not allowed.

As a bystander that doesn't know hisazz from $4/week, tell me about ebikes.  I'm sure it varies from State to State, but what are the legalities?   A guy rips down my street on one at ~35mph wearing a vest, helmet and blinky lights.  A  newbie rider just signed on, dressed in black, no helmet, no safety.  

I've seen bikes going against 40mh traffic.  Not bitching, just concerned.  Too fast for sidewalks, could be slow for traffic.  Where do they fit in (legally, right-if-way-, traffic signals, blowing stop signs etc.)

I would have one but have projects.  As a Safety Nazi I worry for those guys and the driver that may meet them.

That varies from state to state, and there are usually different levels. Like the difference between a moped and a sportbike.

Here are the CO rules. To be even considered an ebike, it has to have pedals, two wheels and no more than 750W of motor power.

• Class 1 electric bikes provide motor assistance to the rider only while the rider works the pedals (ie, no throttle). The motor stops operating at a maximum speed of 20 miles per hour.
• Class 2 electric bikes provide motor assistance at all times, even if the rider ceases pedaling. The motor stops operating at a speed of 20 miles per hour.
• Class 3 electric bikes provide motor assistance to the rider only while the rider pedals. The motor stops operating at a speed of 28 miles per hour. By law, Class 3 electric bikes must have speedometers.

If they don't fit those classifications, they're basically motorcycles. That's where stuff like the Sur Ron is problematic, it ships as a (I think) Class 2 but becomes a full on dirtbike by snipping one wire. But you can't license it as a motorcycle because it doesn't have the paper trail, and it's fast enough that you really should be wearing motorcycle gear and not just a bike helmet and lycra pants. So it's like a UTV, off-road use only.

When riding on the street, they need to obey traffic laws like other bicycles. Class 1/2 can use sidewalks and paths (at the state level, local laws may override that), Class 3 can only be ridden on the street. Helmets are not required for any of them but all cyclists should be wearing helmets because brains don't grow back.

I see a lot of eBikes around town but I've never seen a hot-rodded bike/motorcycle like the Sur Ron that's been mentioned a few times in this thread. The vast majority of eBikes are more like the Radpower bikes that Curtis has. They're usually speed-limited to 20 mph, in a few cases 28 mph as Keith says above. 

My DIY eBike tops out at 25mph but I'm rarely going faster than 17 or so, and usually 10-15 on any paths. 

As Keith says, any laws that apply to bikes apply to eBikes.

This thread really has me having the wants for one of these. I currently have a vintage Mercian road bike and a cruiser BMX. I'm getting old and the Mercian is a little darty and rough and the BMX hurts my knees. I could really see me on one of those rad power or lectric bikes. I just don't know if I would use it enough to justify the cost. 

In reply to pheller :

Isn't that a golf cart? 

I love my Specialized Creo; it is the cyclist's e-bike, a drop-handlebar 'road bike' with a focus on efficiency at a high pedaling cadence, light weight, light assist, and long range. It is a little over 30 pounds and does a nice job of making the hills less steep and the headwinds less onerous. It doesn't have the slide-off-the-back-of the-seat performance of many of the higher-powered e-bikes, but it still tops out at 28mph. For my current 8.5 mile commute with a few sections where dicey infrastructure means the bike lane just disappears and I have to take the lane to get where I'm going, it is a wonderful tool.

As far as legality and regulations, here in Oregon it is considered a bicycle, but it is excluded from bike/pedestrian-only paths because of the speed, and is allowed on all roads/streets as a bicycle.

Many motorists are hazy on this, but in many states bicycles are expected to operate in the same vein as motor vehicle by law (after all, bicycles are one of biggest reasons we have paved roads; don't believe me? Look it up.) What that means is we are allowed to ride on the road (except where specifically excluded,) adhere to traffic signals and signs, have lights in low-light/dark conditions, signal when turning, and so on. Bicyclists don't have to be registered or carry insurance because the risks to others dorsnt even approach a minor shadow of the damage even a subcompact car can do, let alone the typical pickup/SUV. Bicyclists here aren't required to ride on the sidewalk (and in my city is actually illegal for me to do so in some neighborhoods) and we aren't required to yield to faster vehicles from behind (same as motor vehicles.) If the following vehicle wants to pass and go faster, they are responsible waiting for a safe opportunity to pass when prudent and legal.

The requirements to adhere to traffic signals and signs often gets a bunch of rabid motorists frothing at the mouth about how bicycles never stop at stop signs, but before harping on that one, hang out at a four-way stop intersection for a while and count what percentage of cars come to a full stop and get back to me. 

Getting off my soapbox, e-bikes are awesome and will be a huge part of future personal mobility. If you haven't tried one, give it a whirl, it is super fun! 

In reply to NY Nick :

I would just see if anyone has one locally you can test ride. If any of your errands are within a reasonable ride and have a safe way to get there, I bet you find yourself using the eBike instead of the car. 

I commute when I can on an Octane Prone 29er with a TSDZ2 mid drive and 48V, about 7 miles and 20ish minutes usually.  I thought the e-bike would make it easy and leisurely but I think it's the opposite. the bike geometry is pretty aggressive and you can ride it like a big bmx or dirt jumper, so it's hard not to push all the time because it's more fun the faster you go.

It doesn't have a throttle, pedal assist only, it's on the github flash with no speedo or limiter so I don't really know how fast it goes, as such I'm not sure of the laws but as far as I'm concerned it's not a motorized vehicle since it won't move unless I pedal.  There are stretches where I'm on a shared bike/walk trail and in those areas I slow down alot when there's pedestrians/pets/kids around.  I would be OK with speed limits on those trails, but I would be against vehicle specific rules.  Someone going 15-20mph, whether it's an E bike or rented Lime scooter, or train of roadies would do a similar amount of damage if they hit someone walking.

In reply to Erich :

I am inspired by your post but have no need for commute now. I used to ride to work when I lived in Metro DC but since then I have been either 30 miles (35 by bike due to adjustments to get to freeway crossings) from work, on travel for work, or working from home.  I did recently buy a Yuba Combi to carry my son on rides. I just couldn't justify the electric bike but I have been reading or watching conversion ideas. There was a guy I used to see every morning floating on his ebike at 35 passing cars going the 30mph speed limit. He stayed off to the right and tried to be safe. But I kept seeing the advantage he had over my pre ebike times of not being sweaty or tired after your commute.

A friend keeps threatening to send me one of his prototype light motorcycles which would be a sur-ron competitor. It would be fun to try out. But dangerous (for me) to own. 

After working in Suzhou, PRC and seeing hundreds of escooters. I just don't know why they are so rare here. 

I motorcycle to work, a 10min commute, and I do see e-bikes (and scooters in the residentials/campuses) almost daily. Just gonna leave this here for anyone interested, he cites sources and provides well reasoned takes on the subject.

doesn't want to embed for me, so here's the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM8Xli2KTzI