Corona Vaccine - Anyone getting it?

I think a lot of folks genuinely want to not affect and not be affected by the people around them. I also think that that ship has long since sailed due to the level of integration of the world.

One cannot opt out of responsibility to the people who happen to occupy the same chunks of land, whether that's the room or the planet, depending on the context. You can't take your own chances on many things without inflicting the outcome on people around you, nor do people often have the reasonable option to "just stay out of your way."

My small contribution to the math of vaccines is that even if there is a small percentage of negative reaction to vaccines, that reaction is not contagious.

I will reiterate a kernel I haven't heard a lot, but which I think is important: My willingness to take whatever small risk there is in getting vaccinated is part of finding out whether the vaccine is safe and improving it if there are issues. If people are not willing to participate in that process, there is no process. If nobody is vaccinated now, there will never be a satisfactory sample size. And my thanks to the folks who participated in the earlier trials; My risk is certainly lower than theirs.

JoeyM said:

I'm a teacher, and I'm teaching face to face classes.  I will take it ASAP

Same with my wife. She  teaches Littles and they aren't required to wear masks. So far no cases but she will be as near the front of the line as practicable 

Shaun, I don't intend to be divisive, nor did I throw any accusations. I did point out that living in a civilized society is not without costs, what those costs buy us (not being subsistence farmers), and that this year we are seeing those costs come due.

Don't assume that everyone who has come to a different conclusion from you didn't weigh the same factors. And don't stoop to accusing someone of divisiveness when they make an observation that makes you uncomfortable. We do have an obligation to each other. I am glad to hear you are looking for the best way you can fulfill that.

Margie

Serious question, not trying to prove a point. Can a person catch Covid19 twice? If so how can a vaccine work? If not is there a purpose for someone who has had covid to get the vaccine? 

In reply to gearheadmb :

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52446965

In reply to gearheadmb :

yes, primarily through strain mutations and evolution at this time. The good news is that so far, for the most part, the severity of second infections is far less severe then initial infections and antibody response and reinforcement is swift. The concept is if we get vaccinated and it stops getting past around, then it won't have the opportunity to develop and evolve further as it will no longer have multigenerational development via community spread. 

In reply to Marjorie Suddard :

Thank you. 

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :

Thanks for the link

gearheadmb said:

Serious question, not trying to prove a point. Can a person catch Covid19 twice? If so how can a vaccine work? If not is there a purpose for someone who has had covid to get the vaccine? 

Late to this discussion, but this caught my eye.  I caught it from my boss being an shiny happy person, so did the whole shop and his wife.  Some friends that already had it formed a Facebook chat for support and discussions, they invited me in.  One friend mentioned the first time he had it this summer it felt like the cold/flu symptoms.  Now the second time he's still dealing with after effects like getting out of bed and showering feels like he ran a marathon.

As for the topic, I won't be first in line but I'll join in fairly quick.

Jerry said:

gearheadmb said:

Serious question, not trying to prove a point. Can a person catch Covid19 twice? If so how can a vaccine work? If not is there a purpose for someone who has had covid to get the vaccine? 

Late to this discussion, but this caught my eye.  I caught it from my boss being an shiny happy person, so did the whole shop and his wife.  Some friends that already had it formed a Facebook chat for support and discussions, they invited me in.  One friend mentioned the first time he had it this summer it felt like the cold/flu symptoms.  Now the second time he's still dealing with after effects like getting out of bed and showering feels like he ran a marathon.

As for the topic, I won't be first in line but I'll join in fairly quick.

Has he tested positive for it twice, or is he just assuming?

This is not toward you specifically, but just in general, I see lots of people self-diagnosing themselves with all kinds of different things because they spent 90 seconds reading webMD or the Mayo Clinic site. 

 

I will definitely get it. I've had two relatives and one acquaintance die (all had underlying conditions but were generally healthy/active people and died within 2-3 weeks of getting COVID). One of our local racer friends (in his 30s) has been in the hospital for 2.5 weeks on oxygen now because of it. 

My wife and kids are asthmatic and I have an underlying condition as well (I'm in my mid-40s), plus my in-laws live nearby and both are older with underlying conditions. so there is no situation in which getting COVID would be a good thing for me, directly or indirectly.

Considering the way the new vaccines (at least the two major US ones) are made, using RNA vice "dead virus," a technology that has been in the works for decades now, I have little to no reservations about taking them.

I likely would not take the Russian one, if offered, however! 

Jesse Ransom (FFS) said:

One cannot opt out of responsibility to the people who happen to occupy the same chunks of land, whether that's the room or the planet, depending on the context. You can't take your own chances on many things without inflicting the outcome on people around you, nor do people often have the reasonable option to "just stay out of your way."

 This. Seeing the case numbers in very rural states like North/South Dakota skyrocket goes to show that simply having low population density still doesn't keep people from "staying away from each other." It's human nature to want to be around others, for the most part and unless you plan to live a nomadic lifestyle in the wilderness, you're going to be around other people one way or the other.

In reply to z31maniac :

Current recommendations are not to get retested within 90 days of original positive, because you will test positive regardless of symptoms. There seem to be a lot of people who are frustrated by that, because recurrence of symptoms many weeks later is not uncommon, so they are uncomfortable with the advice that after 14 days or 7 symptom-free from first bout they are not contagious, despite dealing  with a second round of symptoms.

There is still a lot that's not understood about the virus, which I imagine is pretty scary for those grappling with it.

Margie

z31maniac said:

Jerry said:

gearheadmb said:

Serious question, not trying to prove a point. Can a person catch Covid19 twice? If so how can a vaccine work? If not is there a purpose for someone who has had covid to get the vaccine? 

Late to this discussion, but this caught my eye.  I caught it from my boss being an shiny happy person, so did the whole shop and his wife.  Some friends that already had it formed a Facebook chat for support and discussions, they invited me in.  One friend mentioned the first time he had it this summer it felt like the cold/flu symptoms.  Now the second time he's still dealing with after effects like getting out of bed and showering feels like he ran a marathon.

As for the topic, I won't be first in line but I'll join in fairly quick.

Has he tested positive for it twice, or is he just assuming?

This is not toward you specifically, but just in general, I see lots of people self-diagnosing themselves with all kinds of different things because they spent 90 seconds reading webMD or the Mayo Clinic site. 

 

I can't speak for that person, but there have been thousands of cases documented by the CDC of people having multiple, tested, confirmed cases of C19.

I blame the weird fear of vaccines on Jenny McCarthy and Zombie movies, neither of which are real.

Marjorie Suddard said:

In reply to z31maniac :

Current recommendations are not to get retested within 90 days of original positive, because you will test positive regardless of symptoms. There seem to be a lot of people who are frustrated by that, because recurrence of symptoms many weeks later is not uncommon, so they are uncomfortable with the advice that after 14 days or 7 symptom-free from first bout they are not contagious, despite dealin with a second round of symptoms.

There is still a lot that's not understood about the virus, which I imagine is pretty scary for those grappling with it.

Margie

This has caused a real issue with teammates coming back to work, they still test positive but the DR release says they can come back to work. Freaks others out

My doc told me you can get lots of things twice if you didn't build enough immunity the first time.

I've had the chicken pox twice.

Subscriber-unavailabile said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Problem is numbers can't be fully trusted. Been proven hospitals get more money for Covid deaths so there's an incentive to report deaths due to Covid. If I die in a car wreck and have a 1% viral load then on my death certificate it'll list Covid. Someone can have 1% viral load, have  diabetes, pulmonary disorder, heart disease, and have a stroke and they've now died from Covid.

84% of people that died from this had underlying conditions. Could Covid cause more issues, yes, but it's also plausible they're counting all deaths due to Covid. Again why would anyone report people  that didn't die from Covid when there's money to made

This is a well-established myth.  This is how the medical world works.  Period.  Someone's misinformation in the sciences started this myth, and one "side" latched onto it.

Everyone has underlying conditions.  I have hypertension and high triglycerides.  Unless you've never been to a doctor in your life, you have SOME condition on your record.  Hospitals aren't collecting more money because they're lying about COVID.  If they were, it is a massive violation of federal law, every doctor, RN, CRNP, and practitioner in that hospital would lose their license, the Dean of Medicine would go to a federal penitentiary for a long time, and no insurance company would ever contract with anything affiliated with their network again.

They ARE however required during international medical emergencies (like pandemics) to REPORT.  During a normal day, if you died of a heart attack while you had the flu, it's not required to list the Influenza on the report.  During a pandemic, it IS required.  They aren't receiving money for just saying "yeah, there was one virus in his snot."  They aren't inflating numbers, they are testing people and doing exactly what is required by law.  If they aren't, and your baseless claims are true, there would be the world's biggest scandal with multiple agencies investigating.  This is equivalent to if I said "did you know that Senator [insert name] is a serial killer and has 30 dead bodies in their basement?"  Then it goes viral.  If it's true, the FBI would be all over it and the Senator would likely be sentenced to death.  That's how you know it's not true.  You don't see FBI swarming Senator [insert name]'s house or even lifting a finger to check it, because it's preposterous, tin-foil-hat, nonsense.  It's a fabrication concocted out of one idealism trying to falsely bolster claims that support some people's belief that their rights are being impacted.

If you test positive for HIV, develop AIDS, then die of pneumonia caused by AIDS, your cause of death is listed as AIDS-induced pneumonia.  If you have AIDS and die of a plane crash, your death is listed as Acute blunt force trauma from a plane crash.  Your RECORD includes your underlying conditions, so the coroner and undertaker can take proper safety measures when performing post-mortem procedures.

But to suggest that after 200 years of medical professionals providing us with primarily trustworthy care while adhering to a very serious oath and then suddenly, overnight, every single one of them is involved in a mass conspiracy and each of them is committing hundreds of federal felonies every day is not plausible

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

z31maniac said:

Jerry said:

gearheadmb said:

Serious question, not trying to prove a point. Can a person catch Covid19 twice? If so how can a vaccine work? If not is there a purpose for someone who has had covid to get the vaccine? 

Late to this discussion, but this caught my eye.  I caught it from my boss being an shiny happy person, so did the whole shop and his wife.  Some friends that already had it formed a Facebook chat for support and discussions, they invited me in.  One friend mentioned the first time he had it this summer it felt like the cold/flu symptoms.  Now the second time he's still dealing with after effects like getting out of bed and showering feels like he ran a marathon.

As for the topic, I won't be first in line but I'll join in fairly quick.

Has he tested positive for it twice, or is he just assuming?

This is not toward you specifically, but just in general, I see lots of people self-diagnosing themselves with all kinds of different things because they spent 90 seconds reading webMD or the Mayo Clinic site. 

 

I can't speak for that person, but there have been thousands of cases documented by the CDC of people having multiple, tested, confirmed cases of C19.

Do you have a link for that?  I can not find any hard evidence where this was proven.

I'm not arguing against that this hasnt happened, I just havent found any data on it and I would like to see it.

Thanks!

I am going to change course in my tone a bit here. Just to clarify, I think masks, properly worn are helpful, especially to the people around the wearer. I think a vaccine, even with some side effects, is the best thing we have to fight this thing globally.

But

I feel like we are in the 1850 hospital where surgeons didn't wash hands. They didn't know that bacteria was a thing. Once they learned it, there was pushback. People ridiculed hand washers.

This is a new type of virus. I thank God that it hit in 2020. In 2000 none of us would be able to order groceries online. The vaccine would not have been developed anywhere near as fast. The rapid production of masks and gloves from many marketplaces didn't exist. None of us could work from home.

I thank God that Elvis took the Polio vaccine on TV, and that basically all of us were vaccinated at birth so we don't have crazy outbreaks of measles, smallpox, and the like every year.

To all of you who are skeptical, I get it. I really do.

If your employer has the right to make you wear a shirt to work, then they have the right to make you wear a mask. You don't have to like it. You might fog up your glasses. They probably make your ears ache, and you will have to remember to gop get a drink intentionally instead of sipping all day. They are not a silver bullet, but they probably help. I just thanked a friend and colleauge yesterday because he left the day his wife tested positive. He worked together for an hour or so in a small room, talking about an important project. He got it from his wife. I did not get it from him. He likely saved my wife's life.

If you want to wait and be near the end of the line for vaccines, I get that too. This is a new vaccine. Bad medicine has been developed in the past. I get this. Understand that refusing it altogether is very much like the above example of refusing the pull the curtains during the Blitz. It will likely help the virus spread. Is the vaccine the silver bullet? If 100% of the population get it, then it might be. If 50% do, then probably not.

Stay tuned, folks. It's getting real. 

ShawnG said:

My doc told me you can get lots of things twice if you didn't build enough immunity the first time.

I've had the chicken pox twice.

This times a thousand.

Every virus causes your body to mount a different defense, and on top of that, every single body is different in how it accomplishes the defense.  Add in environmental factors (drinking, diet, smoking, etc) and the way your individual body defends against infections is widely varied.

Some viruses (like ShawnG's chicken pox) are very easy for most bodies to defeat, and your body retains the "memory" of how to treat it so effectively that it is incredibly rare for someone to get it a second time.  Other things like HIV are so difficult for your body to fight that it's incredibly rare that your body will ever get rid of your first encounter with it.  Something like a cold virus is pretty easy to fight, but then your body forgets quickly and you are vulnerable to getting another infection in a month or so.

The research I've read regarding C19 is that a body's natural defense (the antibodies you fabricated during an infection) give you an immunity that lasts about 3-4 months.  At this point, however, it's important to mention that this data simply comes from observing those people who have had multiple C19 infections.  Still way too early to have hard data on it.

The mRNA vaccine (according to current projections based on the science behind it and continued testing of the protein concentrations in the test group) should provide anywhere from 1-3 years protection.  How so much more time, you ask?  When your body fights off an infection, it's crunch time.  It's like cramming for a test you forgot you had tomorrow.  You stare at the textbook and shove a bunch of stuff in it, take the test, and the day after the test you forget most of it.  Getting the vaccine is like systematically studying all semester before the test.  You can internalize the concepts instead of just memorizing bullet points.  You become an expert on that test's topic, and years later on FB you can educatedly discuss the Ottoman Empire becuase you actually learned.   Another way of thinking of it is like being at war.  Your regiment is sleeping at camp and you're ambushed by the enemy.  Instinctively, you grab a weapon and collectively you win the battle.  Your memory of it is pretty hazy, and the Captain says "what the hell just happened?"  Now compare that to knowing that the enemy is coming, so you call in 5 other regiments, 3 tank divisions, and air support.  The enemy shows up and sees 20 tank barrels pointed at them, 500 armed soldiers lined up behind good cover, and just when they think it couldn't get any worse, five F16s and two B-bombers buzz past them overhead.  It's like a scene from a Francis Ford Coppola movie.  The vaccine systematically "teaches" your body to have a complete defense ready and in-place in case you are attacked.  Just getting the virus means your body works fast and furious with the least amount of effort to defeat this surprise attack.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

With all due respect, that's incorrect. At least partially. 
 

They are not lying. Doctors and medical facilities are not falsifying records. 
 

However, they ARE required to report this, and there IS a financial compensation when they deal with C19 patients.

They frequently deal with comorbidities.  And often there is no way to distinguish one potential cause from another. (Humans are funny that way). 
 

If the certificate says "COVID", there is additional financial compensation. 
 

Medical providers have entire billing departments whose ONLY job is medical coding. Their job is maximizing revenue to the facility by coding in the manner that is most advantageous to the facility. WITHOUT lying. Medical coders are not medical providers. Their job is maximizing profits and billables.

If a patient has a confirmed positive test COVID-19 test result or a presumptive positive COVID-19 test result, code U70.1 is utilized.  When this code is used, the provider is likely eligible for additional emergency compensation.  
 

This doesn't have anything to do with death certificates or lying. It has to do with medical billing and accuracy.

There is not a conspiracy, or lies being told from medical providers.  We have, however, incentivized medical coding unintentionally (it's an unintended consequence of an honest attempt to help medical providers through the crisis)

No, I didn't read it on the internet. I got it from the Director of Operations of the largest medical provider network in South GA. 
 

Here's a little more on accurate coding, if you care to know:

AAP- How to code for COVID

BTW, U70.1 (and U70.2) are emergency codes which were created specifically for COVID. They didn't exist a year ago. 

Marjorie Suddard said:

In reply to z31maniac :

Current recommendations are not to get retested within 90 days of original positive, because you will test positive regardless of symptoms. There seem to be a lot of people who are frustrated by that, because recurrence of symptoms many weeks later is not uncommon, so they are uncomfortable with the advice that after 14 days or 7 symptom-free from first bout they are not contagious, despite dealin with a second round of symptoms.

There is still a lot that's not understood about the virus, which I imagine is pretty scary for those grappling with it.

Margie

I can speak from personal experience this is not true in all cases. My girlfriend tested positive November 27th, but had started quarantining herself in one of the spare bedrooms the day before. By December 6th she was feeling better, and on December 8th she tested negative.

She was in bed, knocked out on medicine the entire time, with only small breaks to wake up and use the bathroom, hydrate, and eat. She was literally sleeping 20 hours a day.

I have had no symptoms. But got tested late last week just as precaution, and tested negative. 

wvumtnbkr said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

z31maniac said:

Jerry said:

gearheadmb said:

Serious question, not trying to prove a point. Can a person catch Covid19 twice? If so how can a vaccine work? If not is there a purpose for someone who has had covid to get the vaccine? 

Late to this discussion, but this caught my eye.  I caught it from my boss being an shiny happy person, so did the whole shop and his wife.  Some friends that already had it formed a Facebook chat for support and discussions, they invited me in.  One friend mentioned the first time he had it this summer it felt like the cold/flu symptoms.  Now the second time he's still dealing with after effects like getting out of bed and showering feels like he ran a marathon.

As for the topic, I won't be first in line but I'll join in fairly quick.

Has he tested positive for it twice, or is he just assuming?

This is not toward you specifically, but just in general, I see lots of people self-diagnosing themselves with all kinds of different things because they spent 90 seconds reading webMD or the Mayo Clinic site. 

 

I can't speak for that person, but there have been thousands of cases documented by the CDC of people having multiple, tested, confirmed cases of C19.

Do you have a link for that?  I can not find any hard evidence where this was proven.

 

I'm not arguing against that this hasnt happened, I just havent found any data on it and I would like to see it.

 

Thanks!

While Curtis has been pretty spot on in this thread, in this particular instance, there is no evidence that I can find to support that there have been "thousands of cases documented by the CDC of people having multiple, tested, confirmed cases of C19."

You'll notice the banner at the top of this page:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfection.html