Corona Vaccine - Anyone getting it?

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

I never said anyone was trying to murder someone else. My point is we live in a society. As a result of living in a society our actions impact others around us.

The freedom we have comes with an element of responsibility that is part of choosing to  live within a society. Choosing to live within society also means accepting that there may be some limitations placed on your personal freedoms. So anyone that says they won't give up freedom for safety, yet lives within society is fooling themselves.

 As for Bobzilla, he has the same freedom of speech as everyone else on here, within the limitations we have all agreed to accept as members of this board. I was just pointing out that the comment seemed to be more of an attempt at trolling.

Anything in the post after that was not intended to interpreted as being about Bob or any specific individual. It was a general statement about the pandemic, the response, and the behavior of people, in general and not on this board  

I apologize if it was taken as a personal attach on any one individual.

In reply to No Time :

Bobzilla read the article posted in this thread which stated professional healthcare workers are resisting the vaccine in shockingly high numbers. He commented on it here. 
 

His comment was a recognition that the article confirmed professional healthcare workers have concerns about the vaccine too, which runs against what many people on this board have said. 
 

For that, you called him a troll. 
 

His point is valid. It's a discussion. The article is factual. Some people have legitimate concerns. THAT'S what this thread is about. That doesn't make him a troll. 

No Time said:

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

No Time said:

In reply to bobzilla :

words...They are willing to place their right to freedom above others right to live. ...words.

You can absolutely count me in that group. I am 100% unwilling to trade freedom for the safety of anyone. Your freedom is more important than my life. This country was founded by men willing to die for my freedom. For me to do otherwise would be to dishonor their sacrifice. 

I wonder when someone makes a statement like that if they take into account that many of those brave men and women that fought for that freedom and fall into the high risk groups?

So your freedom to live your life as you wish is above their freedom to live their life?

If you are saying that it's ok for high risk people to stay locked inside and away from everyone to stay safe then are you saying their freedom is less valuable than yours?

When those brave men and women fought for the freedom of this country did they rank the freedom of "high risk " people lower than others? 

There needs to be some social responsibility balanced with individual rights. Otherwise we're headed down a slippery slope. Right now you are willing to sacrifice the freedom of high risk groups in exchange for your own freedom, what group will you sacrifice next?

I am a 330 pound 53 year old with high blood pressure, who smoked for 30 years. I'm probably as high risk as you can get. Try another argument. 

What I don't expect is for the government to limit your freedoms to protect me. I'm perfectly capable of taking care of myself and have been since this started. I do a lot of work in medical facilities. I have spent hours in Covid wards within feet of people dying of this virus, while making repairs to the doors that keep the virus isolated in hospitals. There isn't anything magical about this virus. It can't teleport. A little consideration and carefulness goes a long way to not getting it. I assume most people are too stupid to tie their shoes. Expecting them to protect you is just stupidity on your part. 

I get that many people are scared to death of this. I'm not. People get sick and die. Sometimes life sucks. But I will not comply with anything that infringes on my freedom because someone else is scared and I automatically think less of people that expect that and are OK with it. 

Gunchsta said:

I admire the passion required to sacrifice self for the safety and freedom of others. 

However, wouldn't that same sacrifice also apply to mask wearing, social distancing, and receiving a vaccine? These are uncomfortable things that are being requested of us as citizens in order to maintain the health and freedom of the people of this country as well as the world. Isn't that also an honorable sacrifice to make for the future of others? 

No trolling, please assume the best of intentions on my part. I always regret contributing to such passionate debates because I genuinely don't want to be responsible for making anyones day worse, or souring their worldview. 

 

As for the vaccine, I intend to get it when I am offered it. 

I'm sitting in a hospital right now. Just brought a COVID patient here and turned down another transfer earlier today because of weather at the destination. Most hospitals are at their 'capacity' for ICU beds.

I still see trained medical personnel pulling their mask down to rub their nose. Security personnel with a simple cloth mask standing next to a COVID patient on a gurney. 

I work closely with group of about a dozen people doing medical transport. Eight have already had the virus and recovered. A week of discomfort, but no serous cases among them. Two of us took the vaccine. They all called us the "guinie pigs" when we got it. None of them say they are seriously opposed to the vaccine, but currently have no plans to get it.

Gunchsta said:

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

My comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular, I apologize if it came across that way. 

 

I understand your comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular. That kinda makes it worse. 
 

Generic comments like that are presumptive, and divisive. I understand you meant no mal  intent, but the message sounds like it is saying "What's so wrong about wearing a mask", as if people who are willing to make sacrifices are doing so for selfish reasons- they will die for the country, but not wear a mask. 
 

I haven't heard anyone on this site say they wouldn't wear a mask, and a very large percentage of people in this thread have said they would get the vaccine as soon as it's available.

I love hearing different views, but let's make sure we are encouraging open discourse, not creating a "them and us" mentality. 
 

Thanks!

mtn (Forum Supporter) said:

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

To fight for the freedoms of American citizens, you wouldn't have to conscript me. I'd volunteer. 

 

Ah. So those of us that are social distancing, doing what we can to support local businesses at the expense of our retirement savings because we went from 4 jobs to 1 due to this pandemic, wearing masks, signing up for vaccine trials and doing everything that we can to get a shot as early as possible, we’re the volunteer soldiers fighting for freedom? 

And everyone else are the ones enjoying the freedom?

Or am I misinterpreting this?

If you are doing it voluntarily, you absolutely are. You are exercising your freedom to do so and that is a great thing.

If you want to use the government to force that behavior on others, we will have to disagree. 

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

Maybe our definition of discussion is different.
 

There wasn't really a whole lot of discussion, and with a lack of tone I took this to be a trolling comment, and not an attempt at a discussion. 

In reply to No Time :

I'm sorry, can you show me where that statement hasn't been spouted multiple times before? Nothing trolling about that at all. All we hear are that uneducated, conspiracy theory and bad people are the ones denying the vaccine. Thats what we are being told. This states something that doesn't follow that. So are we going to double down on it (which a couple already did) or admit that not everyone that has twp brain cells thinks it's a great idea and are willing to risk it.

But I'm a troll apparenty with absolutely zero benefit so do with me what you will. You have already might as well keep at it. 

In reply to No Time :

Bobzilla has been pretty clear about his perspective throughout this entire pandemic. He's gotten kicked many many times for voicing his perspective, and run out of conversations several times. 
 

Maybe it would be better to just listen?  Calling anyone a troll is never an opening to better conversation or understanding. 

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to No Time :

Bobzilla has been pretty clear about his perspective throughout this entire pandemic. He's gotten kicked many many times for voicing his perspective, and run out of conversations several times. 
 

Maybe it would be better to just listen?  Calling anyone a troll is never an opening to better conversation or understanding. 

don't waste youre energy defending me. I don't need to take more down with me. You're actually valuable here.

In reply to bobzilla :

Haha!

I've been on this site for 17 years.  I've had plenty of people disagree with me... no one has managed to run me off yet!! Lol!!

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

Oh, I ain't going anywhere voluntarily but some here would love me to be part of the suddards patio I believe.

In reply to bobzilla :

I've had 1 foot in the patio several times too! Haha!

In reply to Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) :

Pretty much what I tried to say pages ago!

But apparently I'm a dick. No hypocrisy here.

bobzilla said:

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

Oh, I ain't going anywhere voluntarily but some here would love me to be part of the suddards patio I believe.

I'll make some room. It's dark under here. 

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

aircooled said:

preach said:

Healthcare workers are declining the vaccine at a surprisingly high rate:

Now, if you took that pole with health care workers who work with COVID patients, it would be a bit shocking if it was a significant amount.

Did you read the article?  The health care workers referenced who work with COVID patients are also refusing the vaccinations in surprisingly high numbers. 

Yes, yes I did.   The only mention of people working with COVID patients is:

Though he interacts with nurses who treat COVID-19 patients, he’s not taking it and knows many others who aren't.

So, he doesn't even directly work with COVID patients.  The article essentially states that healthcare workers, in some areas, are refusing at about the same rate as the general public.  This might seem strange to some, but as noted, the percentage of healthcare worker who have relevant knowledge about vaccines (if that even makes any difference) is likely fairly small. It provides zero information about those who work directly with COVID patients.

Of course, they seem to be focusing on the worst case as much as possible (the news, doing that, I know, shocking).  They do note:

At Laguna Honda Hospital in San Francisco, about 10% of the nursing staff has opted out of the vaccine, said spokeswoman Zoe Harris.

Which of course is well below the general publics percentage.

They just seem to be, to me, being (or pretending to be) shocked about something they really shouldn't be.

From what I understand, the C19 vaccines were developed in just a few days once the "sequence" (likely not the right word) was mapped - we just had to wait 9 months for validation, testing, approvals and distribution. I find that timeline pretty incredible.

In reply to aircooled :

I think you are missing something very important...

All healthcare workers are not yet eligible for the vaccine. Front line workers are first priority. That means pretty much EVERY vaccine dose refused at this point IS a front line worker. 
 

You and I had VERY different takeaways from that article. 

In reply to aircooled :

The very first sentence of that article is pretty clear:

They are front-line workers with top priority access to the COVID-19 vaccine, but they are refusing to take it.

The entire article is about front line COVID healthcare workers. 

So what may be my final post on this for 2020:

Bobzilla: I don't think you're a bad guy. I know we disagree on some subjects, but think we may not be so far apart. I appreciate you car choices and had a square body step side in college that I wish I still had, so I envy you.

I think  once we move beyond Covid our views may be different, but not to the same extent as they are on C19. 

As for the troll comment. I know it doesn't change it, but I will admit it was bit too far on my part. I don't know what your intent was with the comment about the article, but I know from my perspective it wasn't really discussing the content of the article unless I missed the part about anti-vaxxers and stupid people when I read it. 
 

SVreX: I respect your opinion in most cases, and think you bring a lot of value to the forum. 

But I don't agree that the comment that I was referring when I made my troll comment was really making any statement about the content of the article. While the comment  "stupid people and antivaxxers"  may be related to healthcare workers not getting the vaccine, but sure didn't seem like an opening to a conversation.

We will need to agree to disagree, if that's ok with you. I'm good at leaving it there and moving forward.

Toyman: I appreciate your opinion, and think in person we wouldn't be as far apart on some of this stuff.

I think the internet removes some of the tone and context.

My family has also been voluntarily following guidelines to help prevent spread, and I believe that people should be doing that voluntarily as part of their efforts to move beyond the current situation. I don't think there should be a need to provide mandates for people to follow the guidelines, but unfortunately we have all seen that is not  the and we are all suffering the consequence in the increased cases and additional government intervention/restriction.

So I wish you all a happy new year. 
 

Hopefully we can move forward and meet in person at the challenge in 2022 (I'm hoping to have a father son project to enter  

In reply to No Time :

Happy New Year to you and yours. 

I know at least one GRMer lined up for it, because I saw it on national TV! (P.S. thanks for flying the colors, Bob)

In reply to Marjorie Suddard :

I happened to catch that live.  I tried to take a pic of the screen but it came out rough. 

I got tested today, and was wearing the colors too!! 
 

(but I didn't make national television!)