Cracked: The Occupy Wallstreet Generation

Streetwiseguy wrote: Gee, I thought Cracked was a comedy site, not a repository of sober thought. That was very well written.

Very insightful stuff. Sad and angering at the same time.

ZOO wrote: There are no worthless degrees, in my opinion.

Clearly you haven't experienced my Communications degree. Worthless to the point of deep resentment. At this point, it won't have much of anything to do with my next step in life.

I can't even imagine what it's like to be a 22-year-old with $150k of educational debt and very few prospects of getting a job that could even cover the loan payments. The system has completely broken down. Unless a school can guarantee placement as a result of their $40k a year tuition, they've lost all credibility, IMHO.

My dad made me work for him doing heavy construction on highway bridges after my freshman year of college was spent berkeleying up.

I averaged a 3.4 gpa every semester after that and now have a good paying job in a growing field in a company that has to hire a new person every month just to keep up with new clients.

I also have a great appreciation for my father and what he did to put food on the table, so I make sure I take the chances I have to let him know that.

Datsun1500 wrote:

gamby wrote: I can't even imagine what it's like to be a 22-year-old with $150k of educational debt and very few prospects of getting a job that could even cover the loan payments. The system has completely broken down. Unless a school can guarantee placement as a result of their $40k a year tuition, they've lost all credibility, IMHO.

Or get a degree at a cheaper school, while holding down a job, and be a 22 year old with very low debt and the same job prospects? So now the school owes you an education AND a job? Wow.

^This.

Anyone who has completed school with $150k of education debt (unless they are a doctor, lawyer, etc) has made some monumentally bad decisions.

I have 2 kids who both graduated this year. One went to a decent State College and ended with less then $20k in debt, the other went to a small private school (which cost about $40k per year) and ended with less than $10k in debt. (worked her tail off, made wise financial choices, earned scholarships, etc.)

I agree they are in a bind, but it's not the school's (or government, etc) responsibility to fix the problems they created.

Datsun1500 wrote:

gamby wrote: I can't even imagine what it's like to be a 22-year-old with $150k of educational debt and very few prospects of getting a job that could even cover the loan payments. The system has completely broken down. Unless a school can guarantee placement as a result of their $40k a year tuition, they've lost all credibility, IMHO.

Or get a degree at a cheaper school, while holding down a job, and be a 22 year old with very low debt and the same job prospects? So now the school owes you an education AND a job? Wow.

Crazy to think that a $150k education should net a job. You REALLY don't see the problem with that???

Why in the name of all that is logical would anyone go to a private college if they didn't think it would get them a job??? The logic (as snotty as it is) always was that a private school would give another step up on a state school. Now, it seems that neither matters.

Like it or not, private colleges are $40k+ a year now (when I graduated, my school was $17k/year--it's $42k now). If droves of graduates are entering the workforce and are unable to do anything with those degrees, the schools might have some 'splaining to do. There HAS to be a teeny bit of accountability there.

My opinion is that in this day and age, a high-dollar education simply isn't worth it. I'd never even bother going into that kind of debt.

OK--I give up.

I guess all of the expensive colleges should shut their doors...

In reply to gamby:

Of course there is an expectation of a job. But you suggested a school have a guarantee of job placement. That's ridiculous.

And (as I've noted) there is no reason a student should view their 4 years of school as an opportunity to sit on their ass and rack up $40K in debt per year. That's foolish. My kids just proved it's possible to get that education without the debt.

It takes hard work, not hand outs.

gamby wrote: Like it or not, private colleges are $40k+ a year now (when I graduated, my school was $17k/year--it's $42k now). If droves of graduates are entering the workforce and are unable to do anything with those degrees, the schools might have some 'splaining to do. There HAS to be a teeny bit of accountability there. My opinion is that in this day and age, a high-dollar education simply isn't worth it. I'd never even bother going into that kind of debt.

I went to a local state college (not a community college) and just in credits alone.. it was about 9,000 for 4 years (75 per credit)

Friend of mine just went back to school at this SAME school. 15 years later.. he is looking at about 9,000 a year

A co-worker's kid's is deciding between Vanderbilt and William & Mary for college. Vandy estimates freshman-year expenses at $59,248 and W&M estimates a much more reasonable $23,827. Yeah.

State schools are not the bargain they once were. In-state tuition at Georgia Tech is 250% more expensive then it was when I last attended about a decade ago.

The crazy prices are why I am not going back to school....I would love to get a PhD, but in middle age I don't think it is fiscally sound to incur all the debt that grad school would involve.

Datsun1500 wrote:

gamby wrote: Crazy to think that a $150k education should net a job. You REALLY don't see the problem with that???

I see a problem with thinking you have to spend $150K on Education... From College Board dot com Keep in mind that the actual price the average undergraduate pays for a college education is considerably lower than the published tuition and fees. This is usually due to grants and other forms of financial aid. Look at what it really costs to attend college: In 2011-12, public four-year colleges charge, on average, $8,244 in tuition and fees for in-state students. The average surcharge for full-time out-of-state students at these institutions is $12,526. Private nonprofit four-year colleges charge, on average, $28,500 per year in tuition and fees. The University Of Maryland, with no aid is $8600 a year, and that is considered a good school. Where is the $150K?

OK. My school (Marist College) cost $60k for 4 years back in 1994--with a tiny little scholarship because my Dad "made too much" (lol).

That same education now is $40,900 year, x 4 and there you go.

Even with scholarships, it wouldn't take much to rack up $100k for a Bachelor's degree at Marist. Not worth it, IMHO.

A lot of out-of-state, full-time resident schools are in this ballpark. They exist.

Obviously state schools are cheaper. Obviously community college is even cheaper than that. Will they give a graduate a leg up in the job hunt? The answer to that is a hot button issue right now, isn't it?

There is no way in HELL Vanderbilt is worth $59k a year unless there is an unconditional guarantee of a high-paying job upon graduation.

It's funny, on NPR Marketplace Money, there was a report about this very issue. Where expensive schools once touted their campus life and the student experience, now they're selling their career services departments to parents.

something I once read about college tuition.. and this came from a university president. Was that the reasons school is so expensive.. is because anybody could get a loan to cover it.

In reply to mad_machine:

...and yet when the banks did with mortgages what I'm talking about now, it was called "predatory". I know--caveat emptor.

I spotted a bad mortgage a mile way (I have a solid, manageable mortgage and perfect credit, FWIW). The worth (or lack thereof) of my degree in the workplace--I didn't see that one until it was too late.

Someone gets it: http://www.rickysplace.com/player/1031-11.html

I always thought the "participant" award at school was bullE36 M3.

Trans_Maro wrote: Someone gets it: http://www.rickysplace.com/player/1031-11.html I always thought the "participant" award at school was bullE36 M3.

He gets part of it (the failure of the trophy generation). I'm also pretty sure he got something out of his experience with higher ed, though. I'm also guessing if he hasn't hooked his kids up with all of his connections, he will in the near future. It works that way.

He's overlooking the people who busted their asses in college with hopes of getting ahead in life and are unable to. That used to net something.

It's not that everyone wants a job handed to them. They just want a job to be available. It doesn't take away from what farmers and miners do. He's not either of those. He's making money being a talking head.

It's not like young conservatives are having an easier time when they enter the job market. This crosses political lines.

I thought his message was more of "just because someone told you that you're special and different from everyone else doesn't make it true"

And "A lot of people have it worse than you do"

As for the "hooking his kids up with his contacts". Wouldn't you if you had the opportunity? Don't blame a guy for that, it's ALWAYS been "it's not what you know, it's who you know".

I guarantee you, 100%, that every successful person who touts the "work hard and get ahead" ideal neglects to mention the connections and the random-chance luck that help you get there in the first place.

These folks were never told that harsh reality either, now that their finding out about it, they're upset because someone told them that life was fair.

Best thing you can do is work your way in so that those great connections can help you out too.

Gamby, who sold you on the communications degree? It must have been the same guy that convinced my buddy to get a degree in theology.

Shawn

I agree with the "not what you know, it's who you know" thing. I work here in Atlantic City as a Stage Hand. An industry that is rife with great Grandfathers, Grandfathers, Fathers, and Sons all doing the same thing with their lives.

I came into it cold.

It took me almost a decade to get where I am in the Call List, and I am near the top. I did it not through family connections, but through hardwork, reliability, AND getting to know the people in charge.

Some of what Afterburner is saying is true.. but the overall message is being lost in corporate ass kissing. I am not grateful that ExxonMobile is out there pumping oil so I can feed my car.. but I AM grateful that BP is out there to provide some (collusionary) competition.

Trans_Maro wrote: Gamby, who sold you on the communications degree? It must have been the same guy that convinced my buddy to get a degree in theology.

I don't want to make this thread all about me. This is about the worries of the next generation.

That said, I was sold on the "follow your dreams and pursue what you're interested in" hype that came out of the idealism that was being fed to college-bound students in the late-80's.

I simply fell through the cracks. If 99% got a job in their field, I'm that 1% (no pun) who didn't. The Communications people I graduated with got jobs in that field, but honestly, most got in due to connections. I never had those connections and simply could not break in. After a couple years of trying, it got so frustrating and toxic that I just had to move on and do SOMETHING. Thus I ended up in retail. Out of retail now, trying to figure out the next step. Big Fun.

Now, my degree is obsolete because the radio/TV industry has changed so much. Putting more time/money into something else that likely won't open any doors doesn't seem too appealing to me.

gamby wrote: OK--I give up. I guess all of the expensive colleges should shut their doors...

I went to a local college and ended zero dollars in debt. Worked as I went, got another job and I'm squeaking by just barely. Guess in doing OK, eh?

I'm confused how a school is supposed to be guaranteeing job placement.... unless the school itself is hiring you?

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I'm confused how a school is supposed to be guaranteeing job placement.... unless the school itself is hiring you?

Yeah! and my job should guarantee that I have a nice house and food! My Dr should guarantee that I never get sick! I am entitled to....

See? It's all entitlement. Some people have that, some do not.

tuna55 wrote: Yeah! and my job should guarantee that I have a nice house and food! My Dr should guarantee that I never get sick! I am entitled to.... See? It's all entitlement. Some people have that, some do not.

No... no it's not.

When you buy a car, do you expect it to work? Or do you expect it to work only part of the time?

An education is almost like a commodity. Obviously, there is hard work and effort involved in using this commodity, but when you PAY for something (especially when it is the 2nd most expensive thing you will ever buy in your lifetime), the expectation is that there will be a positive outcome with that cash outlay.

Nothing to do with entitlement. But you go on and keep thinking that. I went to college and got a two year diploma (cheap) and because I knew it would always allow me to have a job earning minimum $20/h, but I still completely understand what the expectation is about college. Why would I have spent $30k on an education (housing costs included as I moved to the big city to do it) if it didn't get me a job? That'd be stupid.

College isn't an apprenticeship.

The college you go/went to does not control the job market. It's your responsibility to gauge what the demand for your profession is, not the school's. It's their responsibility to provide to you the information you need to become proficient in your chosen field. It's up to you to make use of said information.

HiTempguy wrote:

tuna55 wrote: Yeah! and my job should guarantee that I have a nice house and food! My Dr should guarantee that I never get sick! I am entitled to.... See? It's all entitlement. Some people have that, some do not.

No... no it's not. When you buy a car, do you expect it to work? Or do you expect it to work only part of the time? An education is almost like a commodity. Obviously, there is hard work and effort involved in using this commodity, but when you PAY for something (especially when it is the 2nd most expensive thing you will ever buy in your lifetime), the expectation is that there will be a positive outcome with that cash outlay. Nothing to do with entitlement. But you go on and keep thinking that. I went to college and got a two year diploma (cheap) and because I knew it would always allow me to have a job earning minimum $20/h, but I still completely understand what the expectation is about college. Why would I have spent $30k on an education (housing costs included as I moved to the big city to do it) if it didn't get me a job? That'd be stupid.

You'll have to explain that further, because i'm totally not understanding the thought process here.

Who owes you the job, exactly? The school? Or the job market? Why is the school to blame? Their job was to give you the tools necessary to prepare yourself for a job in your chosen profession. They did that. What do they owe you further?

Let's use the car example further:

You go to school for a degree within a field that doesn't have many openings.

Congrats. You just bought a Maserati BiTurbo.

If you expect that car to work all the time, you're a fool.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Let's use the car example further: You go to school for a degree within a field that doesn't have many openings. Congrats. You just bought a Maserati BiTurbo. If you expect that car to work all the time, you're a fool.

Love it.

I'll change it to be less funny. If I buy a Kia with a 10 year warranty, I expect Kia to stand behind it by repairing it as necessary for ten years. If I buy a 20 year old BiTurbo, I will not even think of complaining to Mitsubishi. It's almost like the buyer gets a choice and then has to live with it.

gamby wrote: Now, my degree is obsolete because the radio/TV industry has changed so much. Putting more time/money into something else that likely won't open any doors doesn't seem too appealing to me.

Gamby, my degree is also in Communications. I was working IN radio while I got that degree and I really enjoyed it.

I no sooner graduated when almost all the stations around here (including the one I worked at) went automated and satillite. If I wanted to continue working in radio, I would either need to move to a smaller station that either didn't pay or pay well.. or move to the city (philly) and hope to break into the BIG stations there.

I turned around and went into video instead.. and that turned me towards stage work...

My degree was not totally wasted.. my diploma looks nice on the wall