Curtis... you just found out your wife is gay.... where are you gonna go?

curtis73 wrote: On the legal/divorce thing.... would it help if she and I signed a mutual "won't get a lawyer unless we both agree" contract? She and I have a very deep history of love and mutual respect. This level of emotional stress could drive us to extreme measures but I don't picture that yet. I don't want to be overly offensive, but what should I be doing to protect myself without screwing her?

There may be legal ramifications neither of you are currently aware of that could come back to bite later. My suggestion is that you both consult an attorney together, ask what's needed to conduct a 'no fault' uncontested type divorce.

If you want to work together, with the safety of but not stigma of a lawyer look into divorce mediators.

When the starter wife and I called it quits we specifically decided to quit while we were still friends. We knew lawyers would not help on that mission. We worked with a legal mediator who worked with and for both of us so there were no sides. They got paid for a quick and calm resolution, not for generating animosity.

Best of luck, hang in there. Been spending some time in Pensacola FL lately, if I was in "hop in the RV and disappear" mode it would be my destination. A little redneck but lots to do, cheap cost of living, decent weather.

Curmudgeon wrote:

curtis73 wrote: On the legal/divorce thing.... would it help if she and I signed a mutual "won't get a lawyer unless we both agree" contract? She and I have a very deep history of love and mutual respect. This level of emotional stress could drive us to extreme measures but I don't picture that yet. I don't want to be overly offensive, but what should I be doing to protect myself without screwing her?

There may be legal ramifications neither of you are currently aware of that could come back to bite later. My suggestion is that you both consult an attorney together, ask what's needed to conduct a 'no fault' uncontested type divorce.

This man is correct. For what it's worth, in a lot of states that attorney WILL NOT be able to represent you both. and you may actually have to both get a separate attorney (or one of you go unrepresented). See my earlier post on that situtation...but if your state allows what Curmudgeon is talking about, go for it.

curtis73 wrote: On the legal/divorce thing.... would it help if she and I signed a mutual "won't get a lawyer unless we both agree" contract? She and I have a very deep history of love and mutual respect. This level of emotional stress could drive us to extreme measures but I don't picture that yet. I don't want to be overly offensive, but what should I be doing to protect myself without screwing her?

Alright. I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here. I'm saying this because I want to try to make you realize something. I have been down this road.

Wake. The. berkeley. Up.

This... person has no more "feelings" for you. She, essentially, left you for another person and threw you out of the house. SHE SCREWED YOU OVER EMOTIONALLY AND LEFT YOU. You need to stop worrying about her and "her feelings" and take care of yourself. Stop letting her lead you on and thinking that maybe things will work out. (I know that part of you is still thinking that.) THEY WON'T.

Get a lawyer. Protect yourself.

curtis73 wrote:

16vCorey wrote: I have no advise to give, but I'm truly sorry to hear that. If you get on the road, stop by Evansville. I'll give you a place to sleep and shower if the RV becomes uncomfortable, and although the city of Evansville is a bit on the conservative side, we do have a pretty good counter-culture scene (a lot of good live music of any genre, art galleries/shows, micro brews, gay bars, etc.).

I spent three summers there. I was at USI doing Lincoln Amphitheatre. Great town. I lived in Burdette Park.

No way! Small world. I don't know when that was (obviously), but the art and music scene has grown considerably in the last 2-3 years. Let me know anytime you're near and I'll show you what's new.

BTW, my band used to play regularly at The Brickhouse (hole in the wall gay bar) about 5 or 6 years ago, and our lead singer/lead guitar player is one of the grounds crew heads at Burdette Park.

Sky_Render wrote: Alright. I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here. I'm saying this because I want to try to make you realize something. I have been down this road. Wake. The. berkeley. Up. This... *person* has no more "feelings" for you. She, essentially, left you for another person and *threw you out of the house.* SHE SCREWED YOU OVER EMOTIONALLY AND LEFT YOU. You need to stop worrying about *her* and "her feelings" and take care of yourself. Stop letting her lead you on and thinking that maybe things will work out. (I *know* that part of you is still thinking that.) THEY WON'T. Get a lawyer. Protect yourself.

Easy, man. You don't know the situation. You are just incorrect on this.

16vCorey wrote:

curtis73 wrote:

16vCorey wrote: I have no advise to give, but I'm truly sorry to hear that. If you get on the road, stop by Evansville. I'll give you a place to sleep and shower if the RV becomes uncomfortable, and although the city of Evansville is a bit on the conservative side, we do have a pretty good counter-culture scene (a lot of good live music of any genre, art galleries/shows, micro brews, gay bars, etc.).

I spent three summers there. I was at USI doing Lincoln Amphitheatre. Great town. I lived in Burdette Park.

No way! Small world. I don't know when that was (obviously), but the art and music scene has grown considerably in the last 2-3 years. Let me know anytime you're near and I'll show you what's new. BTW, my band used to play regularly at The Brickhouse (hole in the wall gay bar) about 5 or 6 years ago, and our lead singer/lead guitar player is one of the grounds crew heads at Burdette Park.

I used to hang out at Someplace Else. I think its gone now. Wednesdays they had Kareoke (or as we liked to call it... Fairy-oke)

Someplace Else is definitely still alive and kicking.

16vCorey wrote: Someplace Else is definitely still alive and kicking.

I didn't know you lived in my Podunk , anyplace else is better than here.

Well I havent been on here in a while and wasnt expecting to see this thread. Wow, good luck man. I had an ex that I had suspicions about wanting to "bat for another team". Cut em loose and you'll be better in the end.

<blockquote

There may be legal ramifications neither of you are currently aware of that could come back to bite later. My suggestion is that you both consult an attorney together, ask what's needed to conduct a 'no fault' uncontested type divorce.

This is exactly what happened to me, FWIW.

RX Reven' wrote: “the more you suffer, the more it means you really care…right, yeah, yeah” My first wife switched teams. At the time, I thought she was just going through a phase but nope, all these years later, she’s still bouncing from girl to girl. Whatever, thanks for wasting seven years of my life, and for the record, cheating is cheating so choke on a pube you piece of trash.

Whoa! Hold on there.... This is my fault because looking back I see how what I typed could have been taken to mean what you thought... But it wasn't my intent.

Cheating is a bad deal... and I damn sure ain't going to say the right thing to do is to stay any more than it would be wise to say the right thing is always to pack it up and leave.

My intention was to cause a few people in this thread to think more deeply about why a man or women should enter this type of relationship or engage in intimate behavior with each other. If you are doing so solely to serve your own needs you are not going to find happiness.. Plain and simple... Because you are going to attract a partner who is often like minded...

and being married is hard!!!!! very hard!!! but also very worth it...

My objections stem from this notion that multiple 'chicks' at the same time is somehow a better sexual experience than complete dedication and surrender to your committed partner..

curtis73 wrote: I have to say... one of the best parts of this thread is the chuckles I'm getting from the naysayers. I have been in this relationship very successfully for 20 years, so its not the "boning 2 chicks" that was the downfall. I will admit to being less than vigilant when it came to the emotional state of me and the wife before we involved an abused third, but polyamory had nothing to do with the problems. In fact, polyamory is part of the reason why we lasted 20 years.

you are being very dishonest with yourself right now... anyone would be given the amount of pain you must be going through....

Look man... Having an open mind means having an open mind!!!! Don't close your mind to old standards simply because you have some weird notion of what is right because you can call it open minded or progressive...

I have found quite often the people who claim their minds are the most open are often very closed up to ideas which differ from there own and admitting that I fall into this trap often also....

Don't be like me... authentically open your mind..

Now... Listening to you talk about this third wheel.... YOU ARE NOT putting this person humanly on the same level in the relationship as you place your wife... I am going to go a bit further and say you probably placed yourself in a lower standing than this third wheel from time to time also... This from not only you being manipulated by your wife, but also from you manipulating yourself... Creating these types of levels is a very bad deal....

Hell... I can agree with you it wasn't the "boning two chicks" that actually caused the breakdown of your marriage... It was the very idea that boning tow chicks wouldn't harm the marriage which caused the harm... and that seed was planted long before the third entered your lives.....

When I first encouraged you to not seek the LBGT and "party" scene in this thread it wasn't because I believe all of these people are inherently bad.. It is just that in your current emotional state you are going to do things far outside the realm of what even you define as right and wrong... and even should you leave out the LGBT element, actively seeking the party scene at this fragile point in your life is only going to serve to drag you further down the wrong road....

Here... I'll throw out a "place" suggestion... Lawrence KS. young hip very cool town... seafood is clearly limited and we have winter... but it has everything else you are looking for, and is really a great spot!...

Now... I suggest this place because I have a friend who is the pastor of a very different church... IMO he is off the rails a little bit... But at is his core, and despite our differences he is a very good and very decent man...

http://www.plymouthlawrence.com/who/about/

If not this... for your own sake find something like this... At least for a little while.... Or maybe not in a church... Just find these kinds of people...... Don't rush out exposing yourself to a scene who at the bottom level is very degenerate... They will take you down with them.. Just pull you right to the very bottom so fast you won't know what hit you....

Please... Understand you shouldn't trust yourself right now... So you must work extra hard at finding the strongest most decent people, and allow them to lift you up... Your version might differ from mine... Heck... It looks like you have a couple offers right here in this thread.... Take them up on it... You know you ain't going to find what you need to heal on Bourbon St......

maybe I am just being an shiny happy person..

But I just really feel called to ask him to pause a moment and think differently about what he is doing and what he is seeking.

I don't look down on him... I really don't... I have done enough stupid in my life to have plenty of compassion and understanding for his situation.

As you would not have me judge him, don't quickly judge me... My honest heartfelt intention is friendly advice, not judgment.

ronholm wrote: you are being very dishonest with yourself right now... anyone would be given the amount of pain you must be going through.... Look man... Having an open mind means having an open mind!!!! Don't close your mind to old standards simply because you have some weird notion of what is right because you can call it open minded or progressive... I have found quite often the people who claim their minds are the most open are often very closed up to ideas which differ from there own and admitting that I fall into this trap often also.... Don't be like me... authentically open your mind.. Now... Listening to you talk about this third wheel.... YOU ARE NOT putting this person humanly on the same level in the relationship as you place your wife... I am going to go a bit further and say you probably placed yourself in a lower standing than this third wheel from time to time also... This from not only you being manipulated by your wife, but also from you manipulating yourself... Creating these types of levels is a very bad deal.... Hell... I can agree with you it wasn't the "boning two chicks" that actually caused the breakdown of your marriage... It was the very idea that boning tow chicks wouldn't harm the marriage which caused the harm... and that seed was planted long before the third entered your lives..... When I first encouraged you to not seek the LBGT and "party" scene in this thread it wasn't because I believe all of these people are inherently bad.. It is just that in your current emotional state you are going to do things far outside the realm of what even you define as right and wrong... and even should you leave out the LGBT element, actively seeking the party scene at this fragile point in your life is only going to serve to drag you further down the wrong road.... If not this... for your own sake find something like this... At least for a little while.... Or maybe not in a church... Just find these kinds of people...... Don't rush out exposing yourself to a scene who at the bottom level is very degenerate... They will take you down with them.. Just pull you right to the very bottom so fast you won't know what hit you.... Please... Understand you shouldn't trust yourself right now... So you must work extra hard at finding the strongest most decent people, and allow them to lift you up... Your version might differ from mine... Heck... It looks like you have a couple offers right here in this thread.... Take them up on it... You know you ain't going to find what you need to heal on Bourbon St......

Let's just agree to disagree. To me, monogamy is strictly a social construct. If I were to start believing that monogamy were right, it would be closing my mind to an enlightenment I've known for two decades.

I read all of that monogamy stuff and think, "isn't that quaint?" And saying that my "scene" is degenerate isn't a good way to win me over to your argument.

I appreciate your attempt to help, but I just politely disagree.

curtis73 wrote:

Sky_Render wrote: Alright. I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here. I'm saying this because I want to try to make you realize something. I have been down this road. Wake. The. berkeley. Up. This... *person* has no more "feelings" for you. She, essentially, left you for another person and *threw you out of the house.* SHE SCREWED YOU OVER EMOTIONALLY AND LEFT YOU. You need to stop worrying about *her* and "her feelings" and take care of yourself. Stop letting her lead you on and thinking that maybe things will work out. (I *know* that part of you is still thinking that.) THEY WON'T. Get a lawyer. Protect yourself.

Easy, man. You don't know the situation. You are just incorrect on this.

You need to wake up. She doesn't care about you, and probably hasn't for awhile. Don't let her manipulate you anymore. Don't let yourself get screwed over any more than you already have. How many guys have said, "Oh, my situation is diffferent; we have a mutual love and respect for one another."? The fact of the matter is that your situation is not special, and you shouldn't expect different results. The person that initiates a divorce has already ended it in his or her mind; they're already rationalizing what YOU did wrong and what YOU owe them.

I can agree to disagree... Which I certain to with that last post of yours.... understand.. It isn't my place to judge.. So please don't take this the wrong way... I am not trying to "gotcha" here... I just have to ask a question and don't seem to be able to find a way to ask it without sounding like I am trying to corner you....

I am male... high sex drive... my wife often less so... My mind wanders.. Yet it feels totally natural for me (now) to reject those temptations and instead do anything productive for the woman that I love.. This mental redirection is rewarded far beyond what a simple carnal pleasure could even be compared to.... I give it back to her, which in my mind serves a higher purpose, and thus the temptations to satisfy my own desires are redirected in to some of the most fulfilling activity of my existence...

Hearing the pain in your posts I have a hard time even believing you believe what you have said in this last post....

How is it in the relationship that you value the loss of your wife more than that of the girlfriend? You prioritize her in the title of the thread and she really seems to be the emotional focus? Or am I wrong about this? It feels to me reading your posts that the girlfriend is much more replaceable than the wife?

Help me understand here?

My mind is open.. Convince me..

If this thread stays civil a lot can be learned by a lot of old fashioned guys like me.

I have a traditional relationship with a wonderful woman, I have been isolated from the alternatives by my lifestyle and rural location.

I can always know more and be a better person for it.

I have to say, the thing I am baffled about is how someone wtth such an accepting/open/"non-normal" lifestyle wouldn't realize that she was gay 20, or 25 years ago. When did she finally figure it out? It is also the thing that would really worry me in this situation--I would suspect that she is indeed bi, but doesn't want to be your wife anymore. I would call this cheating, even in an open relationship.

Every person that I know of who has been through a breakup/divorce where one side switched teams had a situation where I can understand it--most of them it probably never even occured to them that it was ok until later, i.e. the girl raised in a very strict orthodox household.

Wishing you the best in this situation, and keep in mind that while I try to have an open mind, you would probably describe me as quaint.

rotard wrote: You need to wake up. She doesn't care about you, and probably hasn't for awhile. Don't let her manipulate you anymore. Don't let yourself get screwed over any more than you already have. How many guys have said, "Oh, my situation is diffferent; we have a mutual love and respect for one another."? The fact of the matter is that your situation is not special, and you shouldn't expect different results. The person that initiates a divorce has already ended it in his or her mind; they're already rationalizing what YOU did wrong and what YOU owe them.

Exactly what I'm trying to say. I said it in a much more rude fashion because I was hoping to shock Mr. Curtis a bit and open his eyes a little.

Mr. Curtis Sir, the only thing "different" about your situation is that polyamory (sp?) was involved. I have gone through a similar situation myself and seen countless friends do the same. Your situation is not different.

Anyway, that's my advice. I'm not going to make myself look like an even bigger jerk by arguing with you on a public forum. Ending a relationship is a hard thing, and I truly feel that you would do well to get away from your wife and the "Third" for a while and clear your head. I also still think you should get your own lawyer.

I truly wish you luck and hope that you can find peace with this situation (however that may be) and are able to move on with your life without too much emotional scarring.

Finally, I'll just leave this here: http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-mistakes-people-make-during-divorce/

Sky_Render wrote:

rotard wrote: You need to wake up. She doesn't care about you, and probably hasn't for awhile. Don't let her manipulate you anymore. Don't let yourself get screwed over any more than you already have. How many guys have said, "Oh, my situation is diffferent; we have a mutual love and respect for one another."? The fact of the matter is that your situation is not special, and you shouldn't expect different results. The person that initiates a divorce has already ended it in his or her mind; they're already rationalizing what YOU did wrong and what YOU owe them.

Exactly what I'm trying to say. I said it in a much more rude fashion because I was hoping to shock Mr. Curtis a bit and open his eyes a little. Mr. Curtis Sir, the only thing "different" about your situation is that polyamory (sp?) was involved. I have gone through a similar situation myself and seen countless friends do the same. Your situation is *not* different. Anyway, that's my advice. I'm not going to make myself look like an even bigger jerk by arguing with you on a public forum. Ending a relationship is a hard thing, and I truly feel that you would do well to get away from your wife and the "Third" for a while and clear your head. I also still think you should get your *own* lawyer. I truly wish you luck and hope that you can find peace with this situation (however that may be) and are able to move on with your life without too much emotional scarring. Finally, I'll just leave this here: http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-mistakes-people-make-during-divorce/

The thing is that there is no "Third" anymore. There's a couple, and then there's Curtis. He's been replaced emotionally and probably physically, as well.

In reply to Datsun 1500:

In most cases of divorce, lifestyle is the reason... People enter and exit marriages for the wrong reasons all the time... Just because people don't need multiple sexual/emotional partners to have a divorce doesn't mean multiple partners .... ahhh... nevermind...

If his lifestyle works for him... I ain't going to say he can't do it... Don't even think I have said he shouldn't.. Just that he should be careful about what he is looking for.. Certainly I don't think it is a great idea... and as such if we are going to be open minded I would think it only fair one might explore deeper the idea of what and why one would choose the freedom of committing yourself to one person...

What I am saying is the drunken party scene he is looking for isn't going to find him the fulfillment he desires..

Maybe my solution isn't the right one for him.... maybe who knows... maybe his ideas are really what is right for his life... He just was with the wrong people... I won't say that is beyond the realm of possibility...

I just know enough at this point in my life that a guy coming out of a 20 year marriage is going to find trouble if he goes looking for it.. The party scene is self serving.... It won't help him... It won't... With or without the polygamous behavior...

Have you been paying attention at all? He is looking for a good nightlife. That doesn't have to mean drunken party scene.

He's also not looking for any sort of dissection or input on what went wrong or the lifestyle he should be leading. But let's not let that get in the way of vomiting our opinions and beliefs all over the internet at every chance.

ronholm wrote: What I am saying is the drunken party scene he is looking for isn't going to find him the fulfillment he desires..

This is judgmental and not helpful, you have no idea if Curtis even drinks. It ruined an otherwise good post.

My .02c