my wife and I believe that striking a child should be saved for 1 thing and 1 thing only. Striking a child should be used to get their attention very quickly in a safety related situation. I.e. running into a street etc..
I don't see hitting as punishment.
ManofFewWords wrote: 4cylfury save your comments until you have experience, seriously. You sound like my 34 year old brother who thinks owning a dog is a huge responsibility..lol..
fair enough ...you sound like a real...sigh...breathe...sigh... I digress
Mental wrote: Again, just stop with the angry typing...
4cylndrfury just shrugs, lets it go, and walks away. Some people are right simply because they say they are. too bad everyone else has to live in the same reality as those who choose to ignore it and substitute their own
Wow. I honestly didn't mean to start such a E36 M3 storm.
Clarifications:
I was pissed off that for the umpteenth time, someone's kids who are old enough to know better mashed their greasy little faces and hands all over the glass doors I had just spent a half hour meticulously cleaning...while the parents sat back idly and watched. While I was (understadably?) pissed, I was grinning the whole time I was typing that rant.
I could've phrased the whole "smack the kid on the back of the head" thing a bit differently. While I have no problem with corporal punishment (a gentle 'whack' - not a full scale "I'm upset with you so I'm going to flex some muscle and show you who's boss,") I wasn't trying to imply that I'm an expert on child behavior, or that "beating" a kid is the only way to get them to act right. I have friends and family with kids who have "spared the rod" without "spoiling the child."
I totally understand the whole "If you don't even have kids of your own, STFU and don't tell me how to raise mine" thing. That being said, if you don't own a business, or have never had to work a retail job that involves selling delicate items on consignment that cost as much as $8 large, (original oil paintings for example,) you have no idea how terrifying it is to have some unruly kid come into the shop, finger berkeleying everything in sight, while mommy and daddy either ignore the behavior, or try to get the bad behavior to stop by offering a reward; i.e. "If you stop doing that, I'll buy you an ice cream." I have heard these EXACT words more than once.
The SOLE reason for not having kids of my own is that I believe that it is THE most important job in the world. Right now, my wife and I spend most of our lives at our business. Popping out a kid out, then dropping it off with a baby-sitter, daycare, relative, or government school all day is not responsible behavior, IMO. I don't hate kids. I got to spend the weekend with my kick-ass nephews, and it pains me not to be able to spend more time with them. BTW, they're 6, 8, and 11, and mommy doesn't have to tell them ONCE not to touch things when they visit the shop.
Sorry if I came off like an assclown. It was just a rant. I truly hate it when it gets to the point that I have to tell people "Sir/M'am, if you can't control your child, I'm going to have to ask you to leave."
I posted this somewhere else but it's relavent: My 40 year old neighbors are of the new hands off approach and it's never OK to raise your voice or hand to a child. They threated but never follow through with "time out".
Last Sunday we had company for dinner when we heard this blood curdling scream coming from next door. The guy and I looked at each other and it went off again.
Both husband and wife neighbors are Veternarians and fix up dogs for fun. They have a rebuilt pitbull; I really thought the pit was yawing on some kid. Bounding out the back door I called over the fence, no answer; I go into the fenced yard as Mom comes out of the kitchen. She smiles sweetly, shaking her dishrag toward the 7 year old girl who is standing on the hood of the car wailing one out. "She's having her little fit".
"Jesus Christ lady, you're scaring the crap outta me! I have guests and we thought someone was getting killed".
I left and haven't heard a peep out of them since.
Their approach is to put your arm around the offending child and reason with them. They carry on for two or three paragraphs of verbage, but the kid is already glazed over and forgotten what exactly he/she did.
I'm not advocating corporal punishment, but you have to get their attention.
First.
poopshovel wrote: Wow. I honestly didn't mean to start such a E36 M3 storm. Clarifications: - I was pissed off that for the umpteenth time, someone's kids who are old enough to know better mashed their greasy little faces and hands all over the glass doors I had just spent a half hour meticulously cleaning...while the parents sat back idly and watched. While I was (understadably?) pissed, I was grinning the whole time I was typing that rant. - I could've phrased the whole "smack the kid on the back of the head" thing a bit differently. While I have no problem with corporal punishment (a gentle 'whack' - not a full scale "I'm upset with you so I'm going to flex some muscle and show you who's boss,") I wasn't trying to imply that I'm an expert on child behavior, or that "beating" a kid is the only way to get them to act right. I have friends and family with kids who have "spared the rod" without "spoiling the child." - I totally understand the whole "If you don't even have kids of your own, STFU and don't tell me how to raise mine" thing. That being said, if you don't own a business, or have never had to work a retail job that involves selling delicate items on consignment that cost as much as $8 large, (original oil paintings for example,) you have no idea how terrifying it is to have some unruly kid come into the shop, finger berkeleying everything in sight, while mommy and daddy either ignore the behavior, or try to get the bad behavior to stop by offering a reward; i.e. "If you stop doing that, I'll buy you an ice cream." I have heard these EXACT words more than once. - The SOLE reason for not having kids of my own is that I believe that it is THE most important job in the world. Right now, my wife and I spend most of our lives at our business. Popping out a kid out, then dropping it off with a baby-sitter, daycare, relative, or government school all day is not responsible behavior, IMO. I don't hate kids. I got to spend the weekend with my kick-ass nephews, and it pains me not to be able to spend more time with them. BTW, they're 6, 8, and 11, and mommy doesn't have to tell them ONCE not to touch things when they visit the shop. Sorry if I came off like an assclown. It was just a rant. I truly hate it when it gets to the point that I have to tell people "Sir/M'am, if you can't control your child, I'm going to have to ask you to leave."
You didn't come off like as assclown at all. If someone doesn't say something incendiary in reply (saaay while drinking a 2nd scotch and hitting refresh on an auction for an LS-1 he can't afford) we don't get 4 pages of hilarity out of it.
Notice no one quoted my more even-handed sober response from page two. Ya gotta throw an STFU in there every now and again to get the blood pumping.
We don't have any kids and don't want any, but man our cats never listen.....seriously. They do whatever the hell they want most of the time. Our little fat kitten tries to slice my hand off if I even look at her in a mean way.
Cotton wrote: We don't have any kids and don't want any, but man our cats never listen.....seriously. They do whatever the hell they want most of the time. Our little fat kitten tries to slice my hand off if I even look at her in a mean way.
I would suggest you swat her on the cat-hinder. If that doesn't work try chasing her arond the house with a plastic bag. They have a whole new respect for you after that. 
With Binky it's my big key ring. He HATES that thing for some reason. We had a gawdawful thunderstorm a few days ago, booming and banging and the house literally shaking, he just yawned. I shook the keyring, he freaked.
Jensenman wrote: With Binky it's my big key ring. He HATES that thing for some reason. We had a gawdawful thunderstorm a few days ago, booming and banging and the house literally shaking, he just yawned. I shook the keyring, he freaked.
My cat/dog discipline tool of choice.
sachilles wrote: I'm hoping to teach my kid ASL. He's 5 month old, and they say to start around 6 months. Any suggestions of books on the subject. Considering I don't know how to sign, I better start learning.
Stick with one worders. Things like "milk", "more","yes","no". Stuff like that.
Many signs are pretty darn intuitive and easily formed.
Here's a great ASL reference tool to use: http://aslpro.com/
Clay wrote: Our son is 1.5 and my wife and I were talking about how we are "those" parents who let our kid run around in the restaurant a bit at the end of his meal. We say "those" parents because we remember seeing them when were single and thinking poorly of them. We obviously discipline him in various ways and don't just let him behave badly, but letting him run around some at family restaurants to burn off some of his tons of energy is just not a big deal (to us or 90% of people that go to places like that). Yeah it probably irritates some 28 year old single genius that's managed to not get anyone pregnant, but who really cares.
Who really cares? A 41 year old, married dumbass father of two teenage girls, that's who! My daughters never behaved like that, when they were younger. They knew that restaurants weren't playgrounds (Charles Entertainment Cheese's excluded). It's only 10% of the people you're pissing off, so what.
RealMiniDriver wrote:Clay wrote: Our son is 1.5 and my wife and I were talking about how we are "those" parents who let our kid run around in the restaurant a bit at the end of his meal. We say "those" parents because we remember seeing them when were single and thinking poorly of them. We obviously discipline him in various ways and don't just let him behave badly, but letting him run around some at family restaurants to burn off some of his tons of energy is just not a big deal (to us or 90% of people that go to places like that). Yeah it probably irritates some 28 year old single genius that's managed to not get anyone pregnant, but who really cares.Who really cares? A 41 year old, married dumbass father of two teenage girls, that's who! My daughters never behaved like that, when they were younger. They knew that restaurants weren't playgrounds (Charles Entertainment Cheese's excluded). It's only 10% of the people you're pissing off, so what.
Edited for clarification:
RealMiniDriver' I'm completely with you!
To Clay: 10% of "them" isn't important when it involves 100% of ME? How would you feel in only one out of ten vehicles passing your house (at dinner time) stopped in front of your house and blew the horn for say, umm two minutes? How would your neighbors feel about the intrusion?
Sorry Clay, but you're presuming that 90% of patrons condone your parental inaction. Perhaps they are really just too damn polite to cause a scene.
And if your wandering child trips-up and injures a patron or a member of the staff, are you going to man-up and take responsibility?
Easy there, oldsaw. The 10% is what I was DEFENDING. 
Edit: Okies, oldsaw. Your edit clarifies things.
This is why I eat in pubs instead of "family restaurants".
The family aspect tends to ruin a quiet evening out.
Shawn
RealMiniDriver wrote: Easy there, oldsaw. The 10% is what I was DEFENDING.
Note: Original response edited for correction.
RMD, I know exactly what you meant.
My response was intended to highlight Clay's myopic and selfish interpretation of his parental responsibilities.
Sorry for the confusion, as I used your response to frame my own - we are in complete agreement here!
Trans_Maro wrote: This is why I eat in pubs instead of "family restaurants". The family aspect tends to ruin a quiet evening out. Shawn
Ever seen a woman set her baby on the barstool next to her? Maybe it's a GA thing.
Neal Boortz has a good rule of thumb on restaurants: "If the entrees average $15 - $20, please leave your berkeleying snot-nosed kids at home." I think that's fair. If I go to some E36 M3-hanging-on-the-walls place, I pretty much expect some kid to be jumping up and down in the booth behind me. No problem. I'll ask to be seated somewhere else. If I'm shelling out a hundred bucks for a meal, the kid running around screaming is a problem.
Xceler8x wrote: My cat/dog discipline tool of choice.
I have a beagle, so I need the heavy artillery:
Sorry took me a couple days to reply, been sick with the flu for almost a week.
Anyway it's easier to point the finger at parents and their kids when you don't have kids yourself. Easier to say discipline those kids when you have no idea what it's like to raise kids. It's one of the hardest jobs ever.
My kids thanks to me and my wife having parents who also discplined correctly have mostly wonderful kids in public. It's when they get home they are a little bit much. Our kids (for the most part) will sit still and nicely at a restaurant, people have come over to us to compliment them on their behavior (if they only knew what they were like at home). For those who are parents you know how tiring it is to 24/7 make sure you are trying to raise them right.
But I agree there are parents who just let their kids do anything and not even bat an eye (my brother and sister inlaw are a great example). No one invites them over because their 3 kids are HORRIBLE. They destroy things, climb on things, scream, kick, and just are plain nasty. I told my wife the kids are not allowed over unless someone is watching them ALL THE TIME. They climbed up on my computer desk and opened a couple of collectible Hot Wheels I have and broke a model too. Took me all my self control not to flip out on the mom and dad (who by the way never asked to pay for the damages).
I'm tired of the whole not understanding till I have kids bit. Of course I don't understand. Thanks for pointing out the obvious. What I do understand, is I don't like it when people act like shiny happy people. Wether they are 4 or 40, I'm not ok with it.
Make your kid not be an shiny happy person. It's your duty. I dont care how you do it, just do it.
Joey
joey48442 wrote: I'm tired of the whole not understanding till I have kids bit. Of course I don't understand. Thanks for pointing out the obvious. What I do understand, is I don't like it when people act like shiny happy people. Wether they are 4 or 40, I'm not ok with it. Make your kid not be an shiny happy person. It's your duty. I dont care how you do it, just do it. Joey
Sweet! I'll be too old for your rules to apply in just a few days. I am soooo going to cry in a restaurant and run around the china shop like an airplane.
Congratulations! You've earned it! Happy early burfday.
CivicSiRacer wrote: Anyway it's easier to point the finger at parents and their kids when you don't have kids yourself. Easier to say discipline those kids when you have no idea what it's like to raise kids. It's one of the hardest jobs ever.
Even if it were really really hard I would still point the finger at the parents who are not raising their kids to respect the public boundary. I do know what it's like to raise kids, it's very hard. It's a tough job. It's not a 9 to 5er, its all the time. Just remember not to slack off when you take your kid out to eat or when you shop.
There is a time and place for everything, including horseplay. Those kids are counting on you to define what time is the right time to run and play, and to allow for plenty of it. But letting them run wild in public places puts them in harms way and makes you and them a target for the childless masses to bestow their grump upon you.
I am of the opinion that the vast majority of the people I see with kids running wild in a restaraunt or etc are too lazy to keep them in check or are afraid the little beasts won't like Mommy and Daddy if they discipline their kids. That's what leads us to crap like the Menendez brothers.
EastCoastMojo wrote:CivicSiRacer wrote: Anyway it's easier to point the finger at parents and their kids when you don't have kids yourself. Easier to say discipline those kids when you have no idea what it's like to raise kids. It's one of the hardest jobs ever.Even if it were really really hard I would still point the finger at the parents who are not raising their kids to respect the public boundary. I do know what it's like to raise kids, it's very hard. It's a tough job. It's not a 9 to 5er, its all the time. Just remember not to slack off when you take your kid out to eat or when you shop. There is a time and place for everything, including horseplay. Those kids are counting on you to define what time is the right time to run and play, and to allow for plenty of it. But letting them run wild in public places puts them in harms way and makes you and them a target for the childless masses to bestow their grump upon you.
Right on Mojo.
Joey
EastCoastMojo wrote:CivicSiRacer wrote: Anyway it's easier to point the finger at parents and their kids when you don't have kids yourself. Easier to say discipline those kids when you have no idea what it's like to raise kids. It's one of the hardest jobs ever.Even if it were really really hard I would still point the finger at the parents who are not raising their kids to respect the public boundary. I do know what it's like to raise kids, it's very hard. It's a tough job. It's not a 9 to 5er, its all the time. Just remember not to slack off when you take your kid out to eat or when you shop. There is a time and place for everything, including horseplay. Those kids are counting on you to define what time is the right time to run and play, and to allow for plenty of it. But letting them run wild in public places puts them in harms way and makes you and them a target for the childless masses to bestow their grump upon you.
Well said!
+2
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