Delaware Toll People, We Need to Talk

In reply to dculberson :

Or the lack of people.

dculberson said:

brandonsmash said:

Arizona has no toll roads; all our roads are public and are most are generally in a good state of repair. 

Just sayin'. 

 

Yeah, it's got a lot more to do with climate than tolls.

Yep, in just the last 2 years Oklahoma has seen -20 to 114. 

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

Yes... the PATP is staggeringly expensive... From Exit 351 to 146 - about 205 miles = $29.40.   2x since I drove it both ways... 

Hwy 407 in Ontario for its 151 km from one end to the other between 3:30 pm to 6 pm weekdays will run you $86.60 (about $62 USD) each way (add $4.20 each way if you don't have the transponder.) That's 65.45 cents/km on the privately owned and 34.43 cents/km on the public owned sections (the PATP comes in at roughly 8 cents/km). Rates vary based on the time of day, cheapest would be overnight on a weekend or holiday where it falls to $43.42, if it's actually worth taking to avoid the 401 you're going to pay though. And good luck making any sense of the bills they send.

I received a letter in the mail for a NY state electronic toll road and laughed as it was like a dollar or two, I couldn't believe they'd got to all that trouble for so little. I did pay it though.

Toyman! said:

NC uses plate recognition. I just paid the tolls from blasting past traffic through Charlotte a month or so back. 

 

They also tried to bill me - twice - on my motorcycle. The image attached to the notice very clearly showed my motorcycle, but they thought it was a car with a motorcycle plate. Oh, and this was during Covid when they had like two people manning the phones and I was on hold almost an hour. 

In reply to stroker :

Kansas did the same to me, the bride called them and once she got to talk to a real live person they said it was just a glitch in the new system and not to pay it, they fixed it immediately. 

So we got the EZ passes for all three of our cars (can't wait to see if it works on my classic Mini) and I haven't been on a toll road since! Except one - I went to Hallet and they now have their toll system up and running on 412 between the track and Sand Springs where my hotel was - the system didn't work last year when I made the same trip. Anyway, they billed my EZ pass for the 50¢ trip each day no problem - funny thing is, I hadn't put the EZ sticker on the windshield yet.

I have a problem with toll roads in general - for example, the one in Kansas was only supposed to collect tolls till the original bonds to build it were paid off - it was built 70 years ago - you telling me they STILL aren't paid off? Of course they were - decades ago - but the state found an EZ cash cow and is milking it for all they're worth.

One of the worst toll roads I've ever encountered was Oklahoma 40 hiway - I don't think there's a more miserably rough and beat up road in this country (and I've driven hiway 90 in Wisconsin!), and since I was towing my Mini behind my MINI, I got to pay a toll for both cars - $36 to drive on a road so bad I wasn't sure I would have either car left by the time I turned north in Tulsa!

I just got one of these from that same toll. I used the note section of my check to write out F U. 

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

I just got one of these from that same toll. I used the note section of my check to write out F U. 

I almost did that last night. But then I thought better of it--they might misallocate the $4 if I didn't write the violation number on it. If they did misallocate it, I would have proof from the bank that they cashed the check.

What I did do, though, was write some things on the statements that I enclosed with my check. Nothing salacious, but hopefully a friendly little jab. I drew an arrow to one of the $4 charges (because they read my transponder in that direction) and wrote "See? I paid in one direction. You just didn't catch the other." And then "This whole endeavor seems like a waste of time (yours and mine), don't you think?" Then I drew a picture of a turkey and wrote "Happy Thanksgiving" before mailing it, along with my check, to the Delaware Department of Motor Vehicles or whatever.

I live in PA. I REFUSE to use the Turnpike. It's a crappy road, eternally under construction, and the tolls are absurd. I WILL waste half a tank of gas using adjacent roads if need be, just for spite.

And the surrounding roads are much more scenic, usually. 

I found out that I could just take 78 to and from New York. It's prettier, faster, has no tolls, AND it throws you further North and lets you skip some of the NJTP. 78 and 80 are some really nice highways in PA. 

ddavidv said:

I live in PA. I REFUSE to use the Turnpike. It's a crappy road, eternally under construction, and the tolls are absurd. I WILL waste half a tank of gas using adjacent roads if need be, just for spite.

And the surrounding roads are much more scenic, usually. 

I don't entirely disagree, but living in Lower Bucks the PATP is often the only realistic option to get from A to B. Most of the roads in Bucks run parallel or perpendicular to the Delaware River and thus don't run due east-west.   So it's not so much the fuel costs but the time.  While avoiding the PATP is possible, the alternative route can easily add an hour or more to the travel time. 

For example, I like to go visit Nockamixon State Park which is also in Bucks County, but in upper Bucks.  It takes me an hour to get there as the only somewhat direct route is for me to travel almost the entire length of Rt 413. Conversely, I can get to Allaire State Park - which is on the other side of NJ - in less time via the PATP, NJTP and I-195. 

ddavidv said:

I live in PA. I REFUSE to use the Turnpike. It's a crappy road, eternally under construction, and the tolls are absurd. I WILL waste half a tank of gas using adjacent roads if need be, just for spite.

And the surrounding roads are much more scenic, usually. 

I understand the sentiment, for me it's not about gas, but time. 

OKC to Tulsa on the Turnpike is 1 hour and 30 minutes or so.........if I were to use the back roads it would be closer to 3 hours. 

confuZion3 said:

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

I just got one of these from that same toll. I used the note section of my check to write out F U. 

I almost did that last night. But then I thought better of it--they might misallocate the $4 if I didn't write the violation number on it. If they did misallocate it, I would have proof from the bank that they cashed the check.

What I did do, though, was write some things on the statements that I enclosed with my check. Nothing salacious, but hopefully a friendly little jab. I drew an arrow to one of the $4 charges (because they read my transponder in that direction) and wrote "See? I paid in one direction. You just didn't catch the other." And then "This whole endeavor seems like a waste of time (yours and mine), don't you think?" Then I drew a picture of a turkey and wrote "Happy Thanksgiving" before mailing it, along with my check, to the Delaware Department of Motor Vehicles or whatever.

I definitely also highlighted and circled only the $4 toll on the front side. 

dculberson said:

brandonsmash said:

Arizona has no toll roads; all our roads are public and are most are generally in a good state of repair. 

Just sayin'. 

 

Yeah, it's got a lot more to do with climate than tolls.

Yes and no.

Yes, I was being intentionally glib and yes, it's true that much of Arizona doesn't see much in the way of potential for frost heaves or rain erosion. 

However, the state isn't all Phoenix and Tucson. From the Mogollon Rim up north (including Payson, Prescott, and Flagstaff, to name a few) the climate is much cooler. Flagstaff, for instance, is one of the snowiest cities in the country. AZ still doesn't have toll roads, and the roads in Flag are generally pretty good.

I think one of the issue with PA roads is a matter of density.  While not a large state by western standards, it's still fairly large and damn near every square mile of the state has a road of some type running through it.  It makes for a lot of infrastructure to stay on top of and despite what we pay in gas taxes, there's still only so much funding to go around.

The PennDOT website even alludes to this road density on their website:

I'll have to do some more reading on the website, but I think it would be interesting to learn how all of the funding is distributed to the various needs and liabilities. 

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

 

When I had my classic Mini, the low and near vertical windshield somehow made the transponder hard to read by some scanners - specifically the NJTP high-speed scanners.  So when I drove that car the first few times into NJ the toll would get mailed as a violation, but when I called them and paid the toll by credit card over the phone, they would wave the penalties. 

 

This is why I have my transponder down on the dash of my Landy. It seems to work better there.

In reply to mad_machine :

Until very recently, I had no Velcro strip in my red RX-7 for my EZ Pass because Ohio only gives you enough for two cars.  So it would live over my sun visor and I'd put it on the dash before a tollbooth.

Sometimes it wouldn't read on the dash.  Sometimes I'd forget and it would read just fine over my sun visor.  I dunno.

I guess I'm just glad I live in a state which fully publicly funds all of our roads.

MD EZPass is even worse, even with the license plate on file, they charge a $42 Larry Hogan patron saint of express toll lanes campaign financing fee.