Denver, possible move....

Denver is on the short list of places the wife and I would consider moving.

Being a Tech Writer, there are TONS of opportunities in the region with a pay scale that more than makes up for the increased cost of living vs Tulsa.

Tulsa has a weak job market for what I do and I'm basically topped out at 31.

It seems there are a few race tracks nearby, definitely more liberal than where I am now, which isn't a bad thing considering how far right this place is.

Main problem is the wife is a hairstylist, so we would lose all her income (I can't convince her to use her business degree and go to work for the man, but I know she'd be miserable anyway.)

Thoughts? Opinions? I know house prices are much higher, but I have to assume like Tulsa, if you're willing to have a bit of a commute, you can find much more reasonable housing costs. What areas would that be, etc?

I have never lived there, but have visited for a brief time and liked it, and the several people I know who have or have lived there have raved about it. It's also on my short list of places to consider moving to when we can get the hell out of PA in 5-10 years.

Why cant your wife keep doing in Denver what she does in Tulsa? Does she have her own place or work for someone else?

BTW, Denver is one of the few places I would consider moving to. Seems like a great place to live.

Back in 2009-2010 I moved from Wichita, to Philadelphia, to Denver, then back to Wichita. Are you sure the cost of living is covered? Denver seemed just as expensive a place to live as Philly and both are way over Wichita. Like a good 30% more in rent, maybe more.

Denver seemed like bad case of a city with a lot of sections that were either have or have-not on things to do and if it had much that was walkable from your doorstep or not. The mountains were nearby, which can be great, or mean nothing, depending on what you want to do.

I missed Philly and Wichita constantly. It didn't help that I didn't like the job I relocated for. As an outgoing goof from the midwest, I had an easier time making friends and enjoying the people I met in Philly than I did in Denver. You're bringing someone with you so it may be different.

Slippery wrote: Why cant your wife keep doing in Denver what she does in Tulsa? Does she have her own place or work for someone else? BTW, Denver is one of the few places I would consider moving to. Seems like a great place to live.

Oh she can definitely still do hair, but good stylists like she is, make their money on having a clientele.....repeat business. I do ok, but she can still make in 25 hours what I make in 40.

That's the thing, moving anywhere, she loses that clientele. Essentially 55%+ of our combined income. But she does realize I would have a much better career path in a city like Denver. Would likely take 2-3 years to rebuild her salary.

z31maniac wrote:

Slippery wrote: Why cant your wife keep doing in Denver what she does in Tulsa? Does she have her own place or work for someone else? BTW, Denver is one of the few places I would consider moving to. Seems like a great place to live.

Oh she can definitely still do hair, but good stylists like she is, make their money on having a clientele.....repeat business. I do ok, but she can still make in 25 hours what I make in 40. That's the thing, moving anywhere, she loses that clientele. Essentially 55%+ of our combined income. But she does realize I would have a much better career path in a city like Denver. Would likely take 2-3 years to rebuild her salary.

You're both young. If you want to relocate, do it as soon as you can to recover her income as soon as you can.

Denver is awesome. Lived in C Springs for 3 years and we went there quite often. But the online/paper cost of living adjustment doesn't tell the whole story.

Everything is more expensive there. EVERYTHING. We moved from Norman OK to C Springs. Fortunetely I have a career that made affording the move easier (goverment adjusted housing allowance for high cost of living) but it still stung a good bit. They are a bit tax happy in Colorado compared to OK as well, so its a slight increase across the board and you don't realize how much until you settle in.

The general rule in C Springs as well as Denver is the closer you are to the front range, the more it will cost you. So Golden is really pricey, Lakewood and then Aurora. Aurora gets a slightly bad rap as being a lessor place, becuase there is a lot of indutrial space there, Bucky AFB is there and all the cool hipster stuff in down town. But friends I had in the area really liked it. Live in the right place and it solid blue collar honest folks.

Now the flip side of being pricier, is there is a ton of cool stuff to do for almost nothing. Red Rock colloseum, when not a concert venue is a state park, free entry and is strking in its beauty. If you are into bicycles, there are a dozen trails around the city, road bikes; there are great roads; off-road, a dozen trails; hiking, 10 minutes and the trails are everywhere. Hell, just hop in the car and find a squiggly line on the map, there are hundreds. There are a dozen cool festivals, parades, neighborhood parties and events every month in Denver or in one of the towns around Colorado.

The tracks are good. High Plains raceway is about 45 minutes east, is huge and very new. Lacking in facilites but they are getting better. Pueblo is just down I-25 a little under 2 hours. Its older, a muli-use facility but has a great family run atmosphere I always loved. I never made it to La Juanta, but its an old SAC runway converted to car use, and Hastings in a few hours northeast in Nebraksa. Car and bike culture is huge there, there is very little rust, but I think Denver may still require emissions testing. Vehicle registrartion is priceir than I was used to in OK, and a bit of a PITA, but not quite to California levels I am told.

If you like beer, you will love it there. Micro brews everywhere, and the Denver Beer festival every year.

I think your missus can get started sooner than she thinks is hair. IIRC Oklahoma actually has some pretty serious guidelines for beauticians and Colorado may readily accept them. I would look into it. a liscenced beuatician is always going to be in demand, she may not have th repaet business right away, but if she has built clientele in OK, then she can do the same in Denver. Good business is always good business.

I would suggest an extended weekend to visit, get a good solid assesment of living conditions, prices and impressions. Who knows, you might convince her. Next month would be a great time, as the Aspens will start to turn soon and its a sight to behold.

It's a days drive from Tulsa without even trying that hard (Western Kansas is the most boring drive in the world, worst than the Dakotas and West Texas, don't you dare speed, becuase they are brutal), and priceline a decent hotel you could probably do it cheap during the week (I would presume her weekends are quite busy)

Good luck.

I thought I read recently that Colorado was getting ready to vote itself into two states.

I've always liked middle to western Colorado, it's beautiful out there. A friend who lived in Denver in the '80's said that (as you would expect) the winters are brutal compared to SC. Still, I'd love to live there but for many reasons doesn't look like it will happen.

In reply to mtn: That's the idea, I'm 31 she is 28. We are going to study this heavily......if we really think it's something we are going to do, our projected timeline would be 12-36 months.

Or I could end up out there sooner working, living in a small apartment, while she finishes up here and gets the house sold.

In reply to Mental: Thanks for your input, as someone who has lived in OK you're input is more relevant.

I think what we will do is in the spring of next year, see if we can rent a condo/house/apt vs a hotel, stay for a week, and treat it like we are living there vs just going on "vacation."

In reply to pres589:

"Denver seemed like bad case of a city with a lot of sections that were either have or have-not on things to do and if it had much that was walkable from your doorstep or not. The mountains were nearby, which can be great, or mean nothing, depending on what you want to do."

I lived there from 2010-2012. Pretty much sums it up. Racetracks are a HIKE to get out to(IMO), and the SCCA region out there is infuriating how far you have to drive for an event. I lived right downtown.

The women there are the best looking/fit I've ever seen. I've lived in SoCal, as well. It's crazy how hot 90% of the women are in Denver. Wear dark, reflective sunglasses and learn to not move your neck to look if you don't like the woman hitting/yelling at you.

That being said, Mental pretty much nailed it. The biggest problem I had with living out there was the amount of homeless people(ugh, don't get me started), the lack of parking/parking police downtown, the druggie hipster berkeleys thats naturally flock to a place like Denver, cost of living was kind of expensive, but there's nice places out there(if you can live without a garage... I can't). The light rail's absolutely KICKASS, tons of good food/brew everywhere, traffic is a GIANT pain in the ass during rush hours, taxi's are a lifesaver downtown.

Winter's really not that bad(sways from year to year), buy snow tires, throw them on in November, you'll be set. Downtown doesn't get plowed very well. Weather's kinda screwy, but it's pretty crazy how much sunlight Denver gets- and it's DRY. That and the elevation means you have to drink LOTS of water- take what you drink now and multiply it by 5, seriously. I grew up in dreary ass NW Ohio, so the winter's weren't bad to me(the sunlight was pretty awesome), it gets bitter cold here and there for about a month each winter, but that's about it. It always seemed a bit colder in the city than the mountains.

If you choose Aurora, stay south and east. North and west can get pretty bad. Steer clear of Colfax ave unless you're right in downtown. Cherry Creek is ridiculously expensive. Lakewood is 'meh' to me. Golden is too expensive. There's some nice areas south of downtown, my ex's parents bought a place in Centennial and it's REALLY nice. North of downtown is also 'meh'. There's NOTHING north-east of downtown. Literally. Don't bother.

I HIGHLY suggest you take a trip there and spend about a week just trudging around. Downtown is a great area, but garage space is nil.

^Yeah, I'd love to live in downtown (even here in Tulsa), but no garage = no track car = not happening.

5x as much water? Being that on average I already drink 4-5L per day, that might kill me.

First, pots legal here! Which sucks! Trust me it sucks! Second, You do not want to live in Denver proper. Third, Aurora is Denver trailer park I know it looks affordable online but you don't want to live there. I live downtown and hate it with a passion. Homeless people are freaking annoying to put it lightly. We are looking to buy a ranch and getting out of here. Look around castle rock. On a good day its 45 min outside of Denver closer to the tech center.

I liked Arvada, from what I saw, and the stuff around Wash Park, whatever that neighborhood is. I lived on the very eastern edge of Littleton, across the street was the west edge of Highlands Ranch. The 90's kind of barfed all over that part of the city. Pretty clean, pretty quiet, pretty boring. My commute to the middle of Centennial (another neighborhood) was actually pretty good, I didn't use anything but surface streets to get there really, rush hour was fine. If you want to use I-25, that's a bad situation.

It was a 45 minute to an hour drive to the fun parts of Colfax Ave. I had no use for the rest of the metro. I paid a grand a month in rent in an apartment complex that included a one car garage. There was no recycling in Littleton, if you want to do that I was told I'd have to drive the stuff somewhere else, because the people in that borough didn't want their taxes raised to start recycling services.

I was the only guy riding a motorcycle if there was the idea of snow on the ground. The winter I went through was really mild, with a bit of gear it was easy! I had a lot of coworkers that talked about their motorcycles, I never saw them. Many 4x4 vehicles with lift kits and bumper jacks, all of them spotless.

I found it very hard to try and meet people there and really didn't make a single friend beyond a couple 'work friendships' that wouldn't have otherwise have formed. I honestly found Philly easier to make friendships in, even though the vibe is totally not what you'd expect with that sort of comparison. And then there's the whole "native" thing...

Let me be the lone dissenter. I have relatives that live in Eaton, which is just outside Denver.

When I visit I find the Denver area to be most drear, monotoned and stinky place on the planet.

They don't grass fed their beef. They stick 14,467,385,288.1 cows in a pen about the size of your bedroom and let their stink concentrate and ruin the atmosphere of the whole area. They don't just do one pen, they scientifically space them out so as to ruin the breathing air of the most people.

Everything is a shade of brown. The grass, the trees without leaves, the houses, the cars, the rocks, the buildings - EVERYTHING! It is absolutely the dreariest place I've ever visited.

I'll quantify my feelings by saying we've never visited in the middle of the summer so maybe there's more green then, but I would only think the heat would make the cow stink much worse.

BTW when the family comes down their main goal is to be able to eat at good restaurants for a change. It apparently is worse than Cali for the treehugger, eat leaves and bark movement.

carguy123 wrote: BTW when the family comes down their main goal is to be able to eat at good restaurants for a change. It apparently is worse than Cali for the treehugger, eat leaves and bark movement.

In my experience, nothing could be further from the truth.

The secret is that Denver's not in the mountains. It's really in Nebraska, except that part of Nebraska is called "Colorado". But you can see the mountains, and you can visit them. Which people do, so there's bad traffic into the mountains on Friday night and traffic jams coming back out on Sunday.

It's an interesting enough city. I don't spend a lot of time there - I'm 4 hours away on the other side of the mountains - but I like it and I'm not a fan of big cities in general anymore.

As for the brown, well, yeah. If you're used to the near-jungle of the northeast, it's got a more subtle color palette.

Good mexican food. And good non-mexican food. Hey, it's a big city. You'll find all sorts of food.

^Something like a Grand Junction, Great Falls, etc.......I like the idea of. But job opportunities are so few and far between for what I do even in bigger cities.

My bud who lived in Denver said everybody out there could drive in the snow. But one summer thunderstorm would bring the whole mess to a screeching snarled crashed up mess.

From what little I saw I think I'd personally prefer Colorado Springs. Right there at the mountains, which is my favorite form of topography.

pres589 When my family comes into town they want to go to Babe's or eat chicken fried steak or any other type of non-PC type of food.

I posted a long response yesterday, then deleted it. Here's a short, less whiny version.

I lived in Denver (Littleton, actually) through elementary school, middle school and half of high school. It was OK, but I would not go back. Too crowded, too expensive. I live in a town of ~50,000 people now, and prefer it.

In reply to carguy123:

I haven't the foggiest what "non-PC type food" means. It sounds like they're wishing for a Cracker Barrel or Bob Evans? That stuff isn't hard to find! It might not be in their slice of the Denver metro but that stuff was extremely easy to find if they can search the web. At all.

If they're downtown and want to find comfort food and it needs to be from a franchise location, then they may have an issue. Otherwise, no.

carguy123 wrote: pres589 When my family comes into town they want to go to Babe's or eat chicken fried steak or any other type of non-PC type of food.

I've never been, but I'm going to call BS that your family can't find chicken fried steak in the 25th largest Metro area of the country.

Maybe there isn't one right around the corner, but come on.

I live in a suburb now. Any decent restaurant/bar is a 20 minute drive.

In reply to z31maniac:

http://www.5280.com/search/apachesolr_search/chicken%20fried%20steak

5280 is actually a half-decent alt-weekly, if you haven't looked it over before it might be a good idea, just to have some more insight on the area.

If you're considering moving to an area, the best thing you can do is subscribe to the newspaper. In a few months you'll be familiar with what the community is really like, the good and bad parts, costs, crime levels and areas, etc. these days you can probably do this on the net.

I don't like big cities, so I go to Denver only when I have to, but when I'm there, I can always find decent food and stuff to do, and there is a very active car culture. If you're a meat-eater and want an interesting experience, try the Buckhorn Exchange. Over on the small, laid-back western side of the state, not so much. Lots to do, but not so much obvious car culture (except for what Keith and his cohorts organize).

Yes, the front range areas do have emissions testing and requirements. Over here in the backwoods, not yet, thankfully.

We got snow and forest fires, but we don't get many tornadoes or hurricanes. Over here in the western slope, you can forget the tornadoes. The snow is pretty much light and fluffy, everyone is pretty well prepared for it, so the winters are actually beautiful and enjoyable - and I grew up 10 miles from Lake Ontario, and hated winters back East. Love them out here. But do your research, and be aware that the West can be different from the East or Midwest, and it may take a while to learn our ways.