Detroit is broke!

IT'S a joke. Jeebus... I know you love detroit, but lighten up francine.

I love Detroit. This really only means good things to come, as long as the leadership is there. Not to sound like a commercial, but Here at DTE, we've pumped a TON of effort into the city and the downtown revitalization projects. I'd love to see Detroit turn into the city it once was, and really prosper. I'll probably be 40 by the time it happens. Look at how Denver was in the early 90's, and look at it now. When I lived there, I (literally) lived AT 5-points in a beautiful apartment, which was regarded as the most dangerous place in the city in the 90's. There was a coffee shop, hipsters(ugh), everything. It was great. If people start caring about Detroit and put some money behind it, I can see the same thing happening and it being a REALLY great city once again. My Dad's been saying it for years, and he's worked up at the DTE building downtown for almost 20 years.

Tom_Spangler wrote: Ade, you need to see "Escape from New York".

Bobzilla wrote: IT'S a joke. Jeebus... I know you love detroit, but lighten up francine.

OK Guys, I've taken my meds and simmered down, sorry all. Believe it or not, I've never seen Escape from NY.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Yes there are places to not go, but that applies every where.

It actually doesn't. Everywhere in the US? Maybe. Toronto and Vancouver are the only places that I'd even have a second thought about walking anywhere, and really it's only strung out drug addicts.

Detroit has always been a "lock the doors kids!" kind of place when passing through.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

Tom_Spangler wrote: Ade, you need to see "Escape from New York".

Bobzilla wrote: IT'S a joke. Jeebus... I know you love detroit, but lighten up francine.

OK Guys, I've taken my meds and simmered down, sorry all. Believe it or not, I've never seen Escape from NY.

I've not either, I've only seen Escape from LA but I knew the reference.

Let's talk about Michigan giving welfare to corporations. This seems to be some of the worst money thrown at the problem.

Many dollars, little sense: Projects that seemed like good ideas at the time ...

As Companies Seek Tax Deals, Governments Pay High Price

Historically, Michigan was a big spender on economic development subsidies....

This aspect of the equation, I find, is often ignored. Corporate welfare has a corrosive influence and often the checks are much bigger. Also take into account that corporations typically spend money outside of the municipality that gave them the break. Citizen's on assistance in the area spend their money in that area to pay for things like groceries, utilities, local taxes....

Just curious, how many of you have been to Detroit? I've been there. Great place. It's like a beauty queen with dementia. You can see the beauty still there but a look in the eyes and you know the lights are out. Personally, I think Detroit is on the verge of a Renaissance. The slate is clean and it can be remade into whatever is possible.

St. Christopher House, public library.

Everything else is looted. Ain't nobody wanting them sum books there.

East Side Public Library.

pinchvalve wrote: Here's whats going to happen in Detroit. Obama's plane is going to crash in the inner city, and he is going to realize how bad things really are and he will promise to do something about it. But how do we get him out of Detroit? You already know the answer:

Snake Bliskin?

I heard he was dead.

In reply to Xceler8x:

Summarized my thoughts perfectly with the last couple of sentences.

In reply to Swank Force One:

Those were the most shocking pictures to me, as well. Really shows the state of intelligence of the human race currently. 500 years ago, those books would be invaluable.

In reply to beans:

They still are......people just gave up on actually trying.

Xceler8x wrote: I think Detroit is on the verge of a Renaissance. The slate is clean and it can be remade into whatever is possible.

I was gonna say that earlier but couldn't spell Renaissance.

I agree

Xceler8x wrote: Just curious, how many of you have been to Detroit?

I have - drove there. 'Tis a scary place - boarded up skyscrapers are weird.

Been once. No desire to return.

There's nothing wrong with Detroit. It's just basically the WIld West, with paved roads.

Stick to the populated areas, don't cause a huge ruckus, you'll be fine. Venture out into the desolate parts, be aware of your surroundings.

NGO's and the military should start training camps in Detroit. If your survive there, you can survive in DRC.

tuna55 wrote:

Xceler8x wrote: Just curious, how many of you have been to Detroit?

I have - drove there. 'Tis a scary place - boarded up skyscrapers are weird.

Lived there a quarter of a century. [edited]
I typed more, but it's all been said previously on this board. My life there is a different experience than those that only visit.
The point is, the truth about the city lies somewhere between the "as soon as you cross into Detroit you will be shot and eaten" and "Detroit is great! I go there for at least a dozen hours a year and aint nothin happened to me when I was in Cobo for the auto show" view points.
I've talked to a number of long-time friends who still live there, as well as others I've more recently been acquainted with. The vast majority of the folks who live there are there because they can't get out.
That being said, I too believe it's on the brink of rising from the ashes. How high it rises depends on the people that are voted in. THAT being said, don't forget that Kwame was RE-ELECTED after many of these scandals came out.

I'm interested to see what happens with the bankruptcy thing. If I understand, one of the things it does is give the EFM the right to sell off assets to raise money. Detroit has assets, the DIA, Science Center, Belle Isle etc. What will be sold? It'll be an interesting decade or so.

DrBoost wrote: The vast majority of the folks who live there are there because they can't get out.

I spend far more than a dozen hours a year down there and my experience while insignificant to yours is different. I also have friends who are choosing to move down there although they could easily afford to live in the suburbs.

DrBoost wrote: I'm interested to see what happens with the bankruptcy thing. If I understand, one of the things it does is give the EFM the right to sell off assets to raise money. Detroit has assets, the DIA, Science Center, Belle Isle etc. What will be sold? It'll be an interesting decade or so.

We totally agree here. Don't forget the wonderful considerate city council refused to turn Belle Isle into a State park as recently as 6 months ago 'coz those suburbanites are trying to steal it from us!

rebelgtp wrote:

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: Ok. So what do we do now? Burn it?

Wall it off and turn it into a post apocalyptic theme park? I am thinking actors playing raiders and zombies. Arm the guests with paintball guns. Sell t shirts saying "I survived Detroit". http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2011/02/07/captured-the-ruins-of-detroit/2672/

Someone's beat you to it. Even trying to fund it on indiegogo.
http://www.freep.com/article/20120709/NEWS01/207090391/Idea-for-Detroit-theme-park-catches-some-attention

I think it would be realistic to say Detroit will never have the population density it did in the old days. So what do you actually do with the square miles of sparsely populated and abandoned areas? You cant leave the buildings to fall in on themselves as has been happening.

logdog wrote: I think it would be realistic to say Detroit will never have the population density it did in the old days. So what do you actually do with the square miles of sparsely populated and abandoned areas? You cant leave the buildings to fall in on themselves as has been happening.

Blight is one of the biggest problems. What needs to happen is knock down anything that is abandoned and too far decayed to be economically feasible to restore(would cost more to build a new one to original specs) unless it holds historical significance. Enact a homesteading act on the east side, whatever, anything to get it cleaned up.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

DrBoost wrote: The vast majority of the folks who live there are there because they can't get out.

I spend far more than a dozen hours a year down there and my experience while insignificant to yours is different. I also have friends who are choosing to move down there although they could easily afford to live in the suburbs.

Yeah, our circle of friends is very different I suspect, at least in respects this conversation. I'm talking to/about folks who were born and raised there. That's a very different demographic than folks that "could easily afford to live in the suburbs". Not discounting what you are saying, just like you aren't discounting what I'm saying. I can't find the stat right now, but I read somewhere that an absurd number, like 75% of the residents said they'd move out if they could, but they don't have the means to move.
Now, it'd be great if the suburbanites would move in and increase the tax base to improve the city.........if that money wasn't squandered on stupid stuff.

DrBoost wrote: I'm interested to see what happens with the bankruptcy thing. If I understand, one of the things it does is give the EFM the right to sell off assets to raise money. Detroit has assets, the DIA, Science Center, Belle Isle etc. What will be sold? It'll be an interesting decade or so.

We totally agree here. Don't forget the wonderful considerate city council refused to turn Belle Isle into a State park as recently as 6 months ago 'coz those suburbanites are trying to steal it from us!

Yeah, that just amazes me. I think one of the city council said they voted it down (the state taking over operations, not even the ownership!!) because they didn't need/want whitey to take control of what is ours. How'd that work our for you haha. I'm pretty sure the deal with the state park thing was a lease. After the state spend money to fix it up again (giving the revenue to the city) they'd allow the city to keep ownership, and all profits. THEY TURNED IT DOWN!!

Sorry, venting. This topic hits close to home and heart for me. I don't want to derail the discussion, this isn't about "detroit is great" "No it's not" "Yes it is".
I wonder if this might, just might serve as a warning for other cities that are heading down this road. Maybe other city council members see that, eventually the well runs dry.

Detroit Bankruptcy Filing Unconstitutional, Must Be Withdrawn, Judge Orders

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/19/detroit-bankruptcy-unconstitutional_n_3624518.html?1374259557

Ingham County Circuit Judge Rosemarie Aquilina said that Detroit's bankruptcy filing violates the Michigan Constitution, which bans any action that threatens to cut the pension benefits of public employees, according to the Detroit Free Press.

Xceler8x wrote: Let's talk about Michigan giving welfare to corporations. This seems to be some of the worst money thrown at the problem. Many dollars, little sense: Projects that seemed like good ideas at the time ... As Companies Seek Tax Deals, Governments Pay High Price Historically, Michigan was a big spender on economic development subsidies.... This aspect of the equation, I find, is often ignored. Corporate welfare has a corrosive influence and often the checks are much bigger. Also take into account that corporations typically spend money outside of the municipality that gave them the break. Citizen's on assistance in the area spend their money in that area to pay for things like groceries, utilities, local taxes.... Just curious, how many of you have been to Detroit? I've been there. Great place. It's like a beauty queen with dementia. You can see the beauty still there but a look in the eyes and you know the lights are out. Personally, I think Detroit is on the verge of a Renaissance. The slate is clean and it can be remade into whatever is possible.

First linked article said: Boondoggle! That's the age-old cry when a public project goes awry, whether from egregious cost overruns, corruption, bad decision-making or sheer bad luck. Or sometimes for all of those reasons

In all fairness, corporate welfare is a small contributor to Michigan/Detroit fiscal disaster(s). For crying out loud, one of the articles you linked focused on GM's efforts to gain a tax advantage during a time when managerial malfeasance was the corporate mantra.

Looking at the four reasons mentioned in the (above) quote, it's hard for me (at least) to imagine cost overruns and bad luck amount to any more than a fraction of the losses incurred by corruption and bad decision-making.

Maybe Detroit is posed for its' own version of the Renaissance but it won't happen until it rids itself of the disease-carrying vermin that led to its' collapse.

Just sayin...

fasted58 wrote: Detroit Bankruptcy Filing Unconstitutional, Must Be Withdrawn, Judge Orders http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/19/detroit-bankruptcy-unconstitutional_n_3624518.html?1374259557 Ingham County Circuit Judge Rosemarie Aquilina said that Detroit's bankruptcy filing violates the Michigan Constitution, which bans any action that threatens to cut the pension benefits of public employees, according to the Detroit Free Press.

My undertanding is thats a local judge and the filing was done in federal court. It appears to be a symbolic move

DrBoost wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

Xceler8x wrote: Just curious, how many of you have been to Detroit?

I have - drove there. 'Tis a scary place - boarded up skyscrapers are weird.

Lived there a quarter of a century. [edited] I typed more, but it's all been said previously on this board. My life there is a different experience than those that only visit. The point is, the truth about the city lies somewhere between the "as soon as you cross into Detroit you will be shot and eaten" and "Detroit is great! I go there for at least a dozen hours a year and aint nothin happened to me when I was in Cobo for the auto show" view points. I've talked to a number of long-time friends who still live there, as well as others I've more recently been acquainted with. The vast majority of the folks who live there are there because they can't get out. That being said, I too believe it's on the brink of rising from the ashes. How high it rises depends on the people that are voted in. THAT being said, don't forget that Kwame was RE-ELECTED after many of these scandals came out. I'm interested to see what happens with the bankruptcy thing. If I understand, one of the things it does is give the EFM the right to sell off assets to raise money. Detroit has assets, the DIA, Science Center, Belle Isle etc. What will be sold? It'll be an interesting decade or so.

Well I lived right up the road in Flint off and on for five and a half years during college - so I wouldn't call it just visiting that area, anyway.