Did the justice fit the crime?

Washington Post got a hold of the victims statement to the court.

It's rather difficult to get through it, although it is very powerfully written. The rather disgusting the way that the woman describes being treated by the defense attorney practically makes me want to commit a felony when coupled with the fathers statement.

The last few years have had some pretty public showings of the increasing influence money has on the justice system (not that there haven't been examples previously). I just hope that something is done about the obvious rot before it worsens any further and the appeal ends very poorly for the sex offender.

Ideally however I'd like to see the victim push a civil suit and ruin the felon and his kids kids but that's the vindictive part of me.

Comment deleted because already brought out.

revrico wrote:

KyAllroad wrote: Apparently he was caught at the scene of the crime by a pair of dudes who tackled him and held him until the police arrived. The scene was so terrible one of them cried right there.

It's this part that leaves me wondering. Maybe I was brought up differently than most, and I definitely have more of a violent streak in me than most, but I saw the little berkers mug shot. No broken bones, still had skin on his body, his eyes weren't even blackened let alone gouged out. I tend to believe me stumbling across a scene like this would turn that suspect into evidence in a homicide. Probably leave investigators wondering where the train that drove over him came from.

I can tell you from personal experience the cops tend to look the other way as long as the other guys is breathing. Friend of mine and I got there before anything happened once after hearing his cousin cry out at a party. Friend tackled the guy so hard he broke a door frame with the guys hips

In reply to wearymicrobe:

The two guys who caught him were Swedes, not 'Muricans.

Beating someone to death is a lot more work than some people realize. Sometimes good bruising has to be enough. Try to avoid the face to if you can. It can make a sympathetic looking mugshot.

One good thing to come out of this is its the first time in recent memory that everyone on left and right agree on something.

spitfirebill wrote: In reply to wearymicrobe: The two guys who caught him were Swedes, not 'Muricans.

Yeah, doing legally questionable things in not your country (and in the most prison happy one at that) is generally a poor life choice.

BrokenYugo wrote:

spitfirebill wrote: In reply to wearymicrobe: The two guys who caught him were Swedes, not 'Muricans.

Yeah, doing legally questionable things in not your country (and in the most prison happy one at that) is generally a poor life choice.

Out of country, did not know that, then they did the right thing. I mean they did the right thing clearly but its definitively not what I would have done.

I can tell you though you see someone you know who is in trouble and clearly ruffied up you don't think straight. Or even really think, it took me like 3 seconds of just staring before I started to move. If the guy had hit is head as hard as he hit his hips on the door he would have been a vegetable that is for sure.

There many cases out there that provide proof that the legal system is not perfect. The article and media attention have made this a propaganda storm, truth is out here but i doubt it will ever be reported. Duke lacrosse case, it was proven they did no rape the alleged victim, but the knee jerk reaction was white, athlete and privileged they must be guilty. Regardless this type of attention is not going to help this guy move on with his life even if his sentence his short.

trigun7469 wrote: There many cases out there that provide proof that the legal system is not perfect. The article and media attention have made this a propaganda storm, truth is out here but i doubt it will ever be reported. Duke lacrosse case, it was proven they did no rape the alleged victim, but the knee jerk reaction was white, athlete and privileged they must be guilty. Regardless this type of attention is not going to help this guy move on with his life even if his sentence his short.

You realize this guy was caught in the act, right? This is nothing like the Duke case where the charges were brought after the fact. I can't really see any reason to worry about how a rapist is going to move on with his life after he ruined someone else's.

The0retical wrote: Washington Post got a hold of the victims statement to the court.

I hate to hear it called a "victim statement," because her words make it clear that while she was horribly victimized, that girl is no victim.

Really, read it. There is nothing left to discuss that she didn't cover. Powerful glimpse into how someone can take something really ugly and make it into another tool for life.

Margie

In reply to thatsnowinnebago: I just think their are holes on both parts of this story. How would have the two eye witness known she was being raped, when she was on the ground passed out behind a dumpster? They were riding their bikes. I think there is a missing piece to the story, other then they stopped and he ran. How many women go to a frat party being completely innocent and in her testimony she accounts she was a deer in a headlights at the party. I don't agree with anything this guy did and believe that all fraternities and sororities should be banned and all students should live on campus.

She was on the ground, unconscious, with her clothing above her waist and her legs spread-eagled. A man hunched over her ran when the 2 Swedish grad students came upon them. They, by the way, wept when the cops interviewed them about the scene.

Margie

Marjorie Suddard wrote: Really, read it.

It takes a lot to move me to tears. Reading that is one of those times.

trigun7469 wrote: How many women go to a frat party being completely innocent and in her testimony she accounts she was a deer in a headlights at the party.

It's a good thing I don't run things around here.

This and the similar statement from someone else on the last page, you'd both be IP banned for life from this web site.

What do you expect at a frat party? Ummm, I think "not being raped" is a pretty berkeleying reasonable expectation.

trigun7469 wrote: In reply to thatsnowinnebago: I just think their are holes on both parts of this story. How would have the two eye witness known she was being raped, when she was on the ground passed out behind a dumpster? They were riding their bikes. I think there is a missing piece to the story, other then they stopped and he ran. How many women go to a frat party being completely innocent and in her testimony she accounts she was a deer in a headlights at the party. I don't agree with anything this guy did and believe that all fraternities and sororities should be banned and all students should live on campus.

What gap in this story are you looking for to make this not a rape? There's a big difference between skepticism and burying your head in the sand. The circumstances by how this woman came to be raped have nothing to do with the issue at hand. Rape is never ok.

Honest question: Did you read the whole article? Including her testimony?

I considered that post an eye-opener, especially his "how many women go to a frat party being completely innocent" question. If it's innocent to not expect to be raped, I'd guess the answer is "All of them." I know I didn't expect it when I was in school, and must be extremely lucky not to have been raped. I will add that to my treasure chest of "extremely lucky not to have been raped" moments--which, currently in the Western world, do not include every time I was out in public unescorted by a male member of my family... but obviously it's coming.

My daughter just turned 21. Let me get you her number so you can be right there when she lets her guard down or gets drunk. How about stomach flu? Still fair game? Sleeping in an unlocked bedroom? Riding a bus at night? She still asking for a handful of pine needles jammed up her twat?

Please, lay out that line a little clearer for us ladies. We've all been harassed at work, on the street, at parties, and threatened, assaulted (but usually only a little and it was all in fun, so smile honey!), so we probably aren't up to speed on what constitutes a dangerous situation. We have no idea how fast friendly turns into a violent contract dispute involving a promise we most certainly did not make, and apparently have no right to cancel regardless. None at all.

Oh, and next time you do something you know is a little dangerous and exciting that involves other people and charged emotions--like maybe racing?--watch out. You probably have a raping coming to you when you're on your way home.

Better yet, introduce me to your son. It's cool if he lets me get him drunk, right?

Misogynist E36 M3heads made me take a long break from here, but no more. I'll be right here when you have questions. I doubt you'll like the answers.

Margie

He is not a gifted college athlete that made a mistake. He is a criminal that knows how to swim.

I find it unbelievably creepy that some people ask the ....What did she expect doing(insert simple everyday task here)? question

Its as if going out and not being raped is a nigh unobtainable goal worthy of telling your friends and writing in your diary..( Dear Diary....Today I went to the store and wasn't raped! It was the best day ever!)

No man, woman,or child should have to expect rape. Its a monstrous and terrible thing done by monstrous and terrible people, no matter how they hide it.

And yet we raise our daughters to expect it, and blame them when they are.

Marjorie Suddard wrote: And yet we raise our daughters to expect it, and blame them when they are.

Sad but true.

Sex without consent is Rape, PERIOD.

Consent cannot be obtained from an unconscious, intoxicated person, PERIOD.

In reply to NGTD:

I think having sex with an unconscious woman is a crime. At least in some areas.

I read the girls statement. She is incredibly strong person and it's obvious the judge didn't get it.

They should both go away for a long, long time--the kid for being a rapist and the dad for being just as evil.

I've had a chance to read a few of the articles and the victims statement. To me, it looks a lot like the judge screwed the pooch on this one. The defendant was guilty, convicted and received a very light punishment. Unfortunately, the trial for the rapist is over, what's done is done and I don't know if a sentence can be changed. We now need to turn our attention to the actions of the judge and why he handed down such a light sentence.

It's time for some investigating by the appropriate authorities, which is happening in the form of a recall committee. I'm not one of them, so I not going to make any sweeping statements about the judges decision, because I don't know all the facts. I would certainly hope that the members of the recall committee will be committed to finding the truth and refrain from making knee jerk reactions without all the relevant information.

So, I stand my my previous statement. I don't know enough about the situation to make a informed decision and I'm willing to let the appropriate authorities do their job. Because as wrong as they often get it, it's still the best system on this planet. Much better than vigilantism (Which a surprising number of you seem to condone), fascism, despotism, or any other ism.

The system isn't perfect. Someone is going to slip through the cracks. I would much rather a guilty party go free, than a innocent party be imprisoned.

Convicting someone in the media just makes it less likely for the system to work the way it should, and I find that to be a travesty in itself.

I kinda think that this crime is a perfect one to justify bringing back stocks as a punishment.