“Did you eat a lotta paint chips when you were a kid, Tommy?”

After buying a couple test strips, as suspected, we have lead paint in the old house (early 1900’s) on the “family farm.”

IIRC, the walls are okay (half of them are that janky fake wood paneling anyway,) but the doors & door frames are not, and are peeling/flaking.

I’m a *little* concerned. Wife is super freaked out.

Our girls are 7 and 4, and have never been eaters of strange things (like paint chips,) however, I’ve read that just the dust is a concern.

Right now, we don’t spend much time in the house. Maybe an hour a day max. More on the weekends.

We *might* live there for a few months while we build on the property, but that’s still up in the air.

Wife bought a couple gallons of the “encapsulating” paint (HOLY E36 M3! It’s pricey!)

Should this be “good enough,” or do we need to hire somebody who knows wtf they’re doing/try to avoid living in the house while we build?

Again, my wife is super freaked out. My counter-argument is that our parents and grandparents grew up around this stuff at home and in school, and they all turned out okay.

Your thoughts, oh great and wise hive?

That litte time, with kids that arent prone to eating wierd crap or practicing the five second rule: encapsulate and forget it exists. 

Came here thinking there was some sort of super weird and wacky project car in the queue for the mag...

I'm not sure about the effectiveness of encapsulating paint. 

The primary exposure is typically in areas of friction and wear which convert the paint to dust, then kids get the dust on their hands, and then put their hands in their mouths.  So for example, window tracks.

Since friction is the primary way of converting the paint to dust, I'm thinking it could still wear through the encapsulating paint. But I'm no expert. 

I'd say a good thorough cleaning, then go ahead and use the encapsulating stuff. Then don't worry. 

Lead paint, asbestos, online predators... there's plenty of things to be afraid of. Next up: Silica dust. Don't take your kids to the beach. 

When I was a kid, my grandfather had a machine shop and a rubber stamp business in the basement. To make the molds for the stamps, you had to cast the type out of molten lead. There were 40 pound bars of lead everywhere (“lead pigs”). I was constantly handling lead in many forms from the time I was five or six. I cleaned the shop, ran the machines, skimmed the slag, cast type and played with the lead bars. I turned out mostly okay kind of. My short term memory is E36 M3, but that could also be from all the adult beverages. 

Damn SVrex is fast ^^^^^^

Be aware those test strips are pretty unreliable.   We used to use them and I never felt comfortable with the results.  We now use an XRF.

The easy button is to use the encapsulating paint.  You should that after you do a good cleaning with TSP.  The not so easy button is remove the trim.

The big hazard is dust, mainly that collects in the window sills.  Little Johnny toddles over the the open window, pulls up to look out, gets dust on his fingers, which shortly go into his mouth.      

I do vaguely recall chewing on paint chips as a youngster and I turned out just fine. 

In reply to spitfirebill :

SVreX doesn't have a life. 

I wouldn't worry about it at all. You are in contact with stuff you don't want to think about all the time. 

SVreX said:

 

Lead paint, asbestos, online predators... there's plenty of things to be afraid of. Next up: Silica dust. Don't take your kids to the beach. 

 

Nailed it.

Typical response to this type of stuff is far out of proportion to the risk. Personally I would do nothing  except educate your wife on risk assessment

Suprf1y said:

SVreX said:

 

Lead paint, asbestos, online predators... there's plenty of things to be afraid of. Next up: Silica dust. Don't take your kids to the beach. 

 

Nailed it.

Much ado about nothing.

I've been through the OSHA training for contractors who deal with lead based paint and the steps to be in OSHA compliance in a project are extremely elaborate. And the fines for not complying are massive. Our government certainly doesn't think it's nothing.

Suprf1y said:

SVreX said:

 

Lead paint, asbestos, online predators... there's plenty of things to be afraid of. Next up: Silica dust. Don't take your kids to the beach. 

 

Nailed it.

Typical response to this type of stuff is far out of proportion to the risk. Personally I would do nothing  except educate your wife on risk assessment

This has always gone well for me. Really turns into a positive and helpful learning experience for both of us.

Robbie said:

Suprf1y said:

SVreX said:

 

Lead paint, asbestos, online predators... there's plenty of things to be afraid of. Next up: Silica dust. Don't take your kids to the beach. 

 

Nailed it.

Typical response to this type of stuff is far out of proportion to the risk. Personally I would do nothing  except educate your wife on risk assessment

This has always gone well for me. Really turns into a positive and helpful learning experience for both of us.

Well, I don’t really consider myself to be educated enough on the subject to accurately assess the risk. While the alarmist stuff I’ve read (on the internet...so it *must* be true) seems a little overblown, I’d hate to be wrong, ya know?

We used to specify this kind of stuff for HUD renovation projects long ago. Clean it well with TSP and coat with the encapsulating paint. Everybody will be fine. That paint is pretty tough stuff for typical interior use. 

Nick Comstock said:

I've been through the OSHA training for contractors who deal with lead based paint and the steps to be in OSHA compliance in a project are extremely elaborate. And the fines for not complying are massive. Our government certainly doesn't think it's nothing.

Certainly, lead exposure is not a good thing (especially for children) but the thing is, OSHA expects that contractors to be working in conditions where they're doing demolition and construction all day every day, along with all the dust and debris that is generated, so they need to take more precautions since it's an occupational hazard.  For the average person, I don't think it's as big of a thing as long as the lead paint is encapsulated or covered over in some manner.

I can only add that using the soy-based strippers to avoid making a crap-ton of lead paint powder via sanding is slow going, even though each application does a fine job of making the outer coat or two just slough off. My wife's spent a couple of weekends on one door frame, though this house has way too many layers of paint.

In retrospect, either replacing the trim completely, or if it's interesting trim, taking it off and having it stripped someplace better equipped might be better. If ours weren't so badly befouled by so many layers of paint it's obscuring the shape of the trim, I'd just encapsulate.

My wife was a Housing Manager for military and the homes were huge, very early 1800 monsters, yeah the paint.  She's certified in lead base paint inspection etc. and from what I recall encapsulating is expensive.  Wiping it down with a damp cloth can bring the numbers down to almost zero.  If your kids are tested via a drop of blood from a pin prick, it's not a valid test; only from a vein counts.

stuart in mn said:

Nick Comstock said:

I've been through the OSHA training for contractors who deal with lead based paint and the steps to be in OSHA compliance in a project are extremely elaborate. And the fines for not complying are massive. Our government certainly doesn't think it's nothing.

Certainly, lead exposure is not a good thing (especially for children) but the thing is, OSHA expects that contractors to be working in conditions where they're doing demolition and construction all day every day, along with all the dust and debris that is generated, so they need to take more precautions since it's an occupational hazard.  For the average person, I don't think it's as big of a thing as long as the lead paint is encapsulated or covered over in some manner.

It's not that I'm disagreeing with you. I'm not. I just know what is required to be done in those situations where any type of work may disturb any lead based paint. And they made it clear those precautions were more for the occupants of the home and the children and spouses oft theworkers and neighbors where the work is being preformed than the workers themselves. I miss some earlier, it's actually the EPA in conjunction with OSHA. 

Double layer of containment. Decontamination area for anything going out. All debris must be double bagged, sealed and sent to a certified trash site. PPM of lead in all surfaces must be below a certain threshold, that's actually measured and verified. That's so a kid walking by in the way home from school is not exposed. And that's for any type of work that may disturb any lead based paint. If it's lead based those steps and many more must be followed. 

My point is that they are and do take it very seriously. 

Professor_Brap said:

I wouldn't worry about it at all. You are in contact with stuff you don't want to think about all the time. 

One of my great nieces, who just happens to be brilliant, had high blood lead a few years back.  Dr. told her mother to go home and throw out all of her toys.  It seems it came down and she is still brilliant. 

spitfirebill said:

Professor_Brap said:

I wouldn't worry about it at all. You are in contact with stuff you don't want to think about all the time. 

One of my great nieces, who just happens to be brilliant, had high blood lead a few years back.  Dr. told her mother to go home and throw out all of her toys.  It seems it came down and she is still brilliant. 

Interesting. I was under the impression that lead builds up in the body and is never removed. Maybe I'm misinformed.

In reply to Greg Smith :

No, absorbed lead levels will eventually fall if exposure is substantially reduced.

Duke said:

In reply to Greg Smith :

No, absorbed lead levels will eventually fall if exposure is substantially reduced.

Interesting.  I thought you had to go through chelation to get it out. 

My understanding is they use chelation when they need to lower lead levels radically and/or quickly. But I have read a number of studies that show reduced levels after environmental improvements, even without treatment. 

In reply to Nick Comstock :

Nick, I've been through the training too. I get recertified every other year. 

But those are ABATEMENT standards for use during construction and demolition activities when dust is likely. And they have a zero tolerance perspective (meaning any airborne particles that could expose a child are unacceptable)

That has very little to do with a responsible family living in a house that is undisturbed. 

Don't confuse the military, OSHA, or the EPA with real life. 

Lead is worse for kid brains than grown-up brains.

Proper remediation is expensive.

That's all I got.

In reply to SVreX :

Oh, I completely agree and understand the differences. I'm not saying anything should even be done in the OP's situation. If the encapsulating paint makes a significant other sleep better at night then by all means do it.