Differences between "normal" insurance and agreed-value?

Now that I have the 67 LeMans, I'm shopping for insurance. I have the 96 Impala and my 99 Kawasaki on with Esurance, but honestly I signed up with them rather hastily without much shopping because I needed quick insurance after the divorce. They aren't cheap, and insuring a classic with them is not really a good thing looking at prices and coverage.

So I searched here and shopped some of the ones some of you had recommended in other threads. So far, Grundy seems to have the best rates, and in fact their quote for all three (impala, lemans, and bike) was only $30 more than the two with Esurance and with lower deductibles.

But before I put all of my cars on stated-value coverage, can you tell me why I shouldn't? Or if I shouldn't?

Double check to be sure exactly what coverage you're buying. I'm mildly surprised they're write agreed value coverage for a 96 Impala and a motorcycle. They typically only write agreed value on "collectible" type vehicles. Not insulting the Impala or bike, but you know what I mean.

Stated value is not the same as agreed value. Neither of them are the same as "regular" insurance. Regular insurance, which is what most everyone has, is where the insurance company does market research (based on books or valuation services) to determine the actual cash value of a car. In Stated Value, you tell the company how much you feel the car is worth when you first take out the policy, or acquire a new car. They will write your policy based on that (assuming you're not trying to insure a Yugo for $50k) and will pay UP TO that amount in the event it's a total loss. But it's not a guarantee. If they look at your car and determine you were way over valued, they can pay less than the stated value. Agreed value coverage is where you and the insurance company agree at the inception of the policy that if the car is totaled, it's value is $xxxxx, period. Hence why agreed value coverage is typically only done on collectible type cars.

I've handled claims for all three types. Stated value isn't bad, and typically as long as you're being reasonable in the amount you claim the car is worth when you buy the insurance, everything works fine. But if you want to be 100% sure, you want to get agreed value.

But agreed value policies usually come with restrictions, such as mileage, garaging, etc...so be very careful. DO NOT break the guidelines of those agreed value/collector car policies. They WILL deny your claim. I've unfortunately done it...many times.

Ok, good to know. Grundy's site said they insured darn near anything. I plugged in all three vehicles and it spit out quotes.

One of the things Grundy's site says is that it will pay up to 150% of your stated value in the case where market value on a car has increased. Like if I insure the LeMans for (example numbers) $100, then a blockbuster movie comes out where the hero drives a 67 LeMans, and market value goes up, they will pay up to $50 over my stated value in the event of a loss. Of course, there are probably a thousand reasons why they won't, but I noticed that as a plus.

One of the things they also talked about was depreciation, but only in a vague sense. Does that mean if I insure it for $10k, then it gets stolen in 5 years they'll only give me (for instance) $8k?

I've been trying to call Grundy, but I've been working my arse off 6-5 M-F and Grundy's office hours are 8-4:30 M-F, so I just haven't had the opportunity.

So what you're basically saying is; regular insurance is book-value and stated insurance is my chosen value (within reason).

Which then brings up another question... why do they care at all what its worth? Its not like they have any liability tied to the object being insured. They make their money two ways; 1) investing the money I give them in premiums, and 2) assigning premium rates that are based on the likelihood that it will become damaged or stolen. If I state that its worth $300,000, I'm paying a proportionally larger premium. Why couldn't I insure my childhood teddy bear for $5k? Like in the case of life insurance. They are basing my rates on my age, health, and probability that I will die at X age. If I want $1M payout when I die, my premiums are higher than if I want $10k. They don't pay out different amounts based on my condition when I died, or if I was murdered or died of old age.

If I buy a used car for $10k and pay insurance for 5 years, then the car gets stolen, they pay me $5k. Does stated-value insurance work the same way? Or do they pay me the full value of what I insured?

Subscribed because I just learned the hard way that standard insurance is not enough for my toys.

I would talk to the Grundy agent on the phone. The computer may have spit out a quote, but until the underwriter actually reviews it and approves it, it doesn't mean much. They may review it and say "We don't want to insure a '96 Impala", so I would just be sure to get confirmation. And again, understand the rules of the policy.

As for depreciation, I'd have to read the language to really know what they're saying. In general terms, it typically applies to parts. So if you have a 4 year old battery that's destroyed in an accident (where the car is repairable), they won't pay for a brand new battery. Non-collector cars...and even some collector cars...depreciate as a whole anyway. If you have an agreed value policy, they will look at the agreed value every year at renewal time. If they no longer agree with the value, they will tell you. So depreciation wouldn't factor in there in the event of a total loss. For stated value, it's like I said before, they'll pay UP TO the stated value. If they can substantiate that market value has dropped significantly since inception of the policy, then they will.

As for why they care what you insure it for, it's all about the risk. Premiums on agreed and stated value policies are typically very low. In exchange, they're putting themselves on the hook to pay big bucks if the car is stolen/burns/crashes. It wouldn't make sense for them to pay $45,000 for a 1976 Fiat Spider when the market only holds that the best examples sell for under $10,000. It would also open them up to huge, huge risk of fraud. I insure said Fiat for $50k and voila, two months later it's "stolen". It happens more than you think...ask me how I know.

Klayfish …. PM sent

When my toterhome burned up while sitting in my driveway, I was paid the agreed value as it was a total loss. No dickering, an adjuster looked at the toter and I was paid quickly.

Klayfish wrote: I would talk to the Grundy agent on the phone. The computer may have spit out a quote, but until the underwriter actually reviews it and approves it, it doesn't mean much. They may review it and say "We don't want to insure a '96 Impala", so I would just be sure to get confirmation. And again, understand the rules of the policy.

OMG... just did. I got all the specifics verbally anyway. What a clusterberkeley. First, I got bounced around to three different departments, all of whom said I couldn't insure something. The website had gladly given me quotes, including a quote of $50 for the 99 Kawasaki, then one of the reps at Grundy told me that the website was "generic" and that the motorcycle would actually cost me $1200 a year to insure.

Then off to another department who had no idea how to access my online quote. Then to a guy who finally could give me a little more accurate quote, but couldn't write for motorcycles.

Long story short, I won't be doing agreed or stated value. The list of restrictions is far beyond reasonable for how I use my cars. I understand that its right for some, but not me.

As for why they care what you insure it for, it's all about the risk. Premiums on agreed and stated value policies are typically very low. In exchange, they're putting themselves on the hook to pay big bucks if the car is stolen/burns/crashes. It wouldn't make sense for them to pay $45,000 for a 1976 Fiat Spider when the market only holds that the best examples sell for under $10,000. It would also open them up to huge, huge risk of fraud. I insure said Fiat for $50k and voila, two months later it's "stolen". It happens more than you think...ask me how I know.

I understand the fraud part. That makes sense. But the other part, it doesn't matter what the car is worth. For that matter, it doesn't matter if its a car. If they insure a $1M Ferrari for $1M, and some other guy insures a $10k Cutlass for $1M, the net result is the same for the company. They don't own the vehicle, nor do they have any stake in it at all. They collected premiums, invested that money, and they are praying it doesn't get damaged or stolen before they can turn a profit. From the standpoint of the insurance company, they are insuring money. Stated-value or agreed-value insurance sounds a lot like life insurance. I want $X when I croak, I'm Z years old, and a non-smoker. Thank you sir, here is your rate. Same with stated value. I bought a car, I want $50k if it gets stolen, and its an [insert car here]. Thank you sir, here's your rate.

Neither Hagerty or Grundy would look at my 95 Gti for an agreed value collectors policy. Called American Collectors on the advice of someone here, ~350/yr for 15k agreed value and a max mileage of 5k and all it needed was to be permanently garaged and I had to have a verifiable daily driver. Sold the car off but would work with American Collectors again in an instant.

Because nobody would destroy a $1M Ferrari to get a $1M insurance payout. But I would sure as hell destroy a $10k Cutlass to get a megabuck from insurance.

Well, its mostly a moot point now. State Farm stepped up with good rates.

Don49 wrote: When my toterhome burned up while sitting in my driveway, I was paid the agreed value as it was a total loss. No dickering, an adjuster looked at the toter and I was paid quickly.

where did you find agreed value ins for a vehicle that wasn't garaged ?

Progressive motorhome insurance. Garaging it was never a question.

motorhome being the operative word … oh well

curtis73 wrote: Well, its mostly a moot point now. State Farm stepped up with good rates.

State Farm has all my stuff and they take care of me big time. They also will put a value on your car that you tell them, provided you give them pictures, and as long as they deem it reasonable they do not require an appraisal. They have the Chevelle, 95 Impala, and 54 Belair all insured as collector vehicles with agreed values of $15K. They love us because we have so many cars and the house with them. Never been disappointed with their payouts on claims, although I've only had one and my wife just totalled her buick. They knocked it out of the park with both vehicles my parents totalled - 99 S10 hit a deer and they paid out $5800 on a truck I paid 4 grand less for, and when mom rolled her buick they gave her $6400 and it had been bought for 3 grand less about 8 months prior. They just gave us $6400 on the 05 rendezvous and blue book high end retail is $5900.

maybe your agent will … mine won't …says they don't offer agreed value or stated value policies ( and just for the record I'm with SF also)

strange, maybe it's the agent.

Could be the state too. Erie will write agreed value in md but not pa.

curtis73 wrote: One of the things Grundy's site says is that it will pay up to 150% of your stated value in the case where market value on a car has increased. Like if I insure the LeMans for (example numbers) $100, then a blockbuster movie comes out where the hero drives a 67 LeMans, and market value goes up, they will pay up to $50 over my stated value in the event of a loss.

Let me be the first to say that the hero already drives a '67 LeMans...

patgizz wrote: strange, maybe it's the agent.

and it could be that he knows the car and what it's used for .. and doesn't want to have me PO'd because an adjuster wouldn't believe that the crash happened on the highway …LOL

patgizz wrote: State Farm has all my stuff and they take care of me big time. They also will put a value on your car that you tell them, provided you give them pictures, and as long as they deem it reasonable they do not require an appraisal. They have the Chevelle, 95 Impala, and 54 Belair all insured as collector vehicles with agreed values of $15K. They love us because we have so many cars and the house with them. Never been disappointed with their payouts on claims, although I've only had one and my wife just totalled her buick. They knocked it out of the park with both vehicles my parents totalled - 99 S10 hit a deer and they paid out $5800 on a truck I paid 4 grand less for, and when mom rolled her buick they gave her $6400 and it had been bought for 3 grand less about 8 months prior. They just gave us $6400 on the 05 rendezvous and blue book high end retail is $5900.

Your family is the reason my rates are so high!

patgizz - If you have State Farm you have a declared value policy not an agreed value. See above. I know my SF agent didn't know the difference. Also, it does not sound like you have ever had a claim on a classic car so to say they treat you great is a bit misleading. I want to hear from someone who has an agreed value policy who had a total loss claim.

FYI - I had read a long time ago that the number one claim on classic car insurance was for towing/roadside assistance. Makes sense to me.

Woody wrote:

curtis73 wrote: One of the things Grundy's site says is that it will pay up to 150% of your stated value in the case where market value on a car has increased. Like if I insure the LeMans for (example numbers) $100, then a blockbuster movie comes out where the hero drives a 67 LeMans, and market value goes up, they will pay up to $50 over my stated value in the event of a loss.

Let me be the first to say that the hero already drives a '67 LeMans...

HA!

Right now, pretty happy with SF rates. Esurance for Impala and Motorcycle was north of $200 every 6 months. Now with Impala, LeMans, and MC with SF, rates are $184 for 6 months. That is not agreed or stated value, that is straight-up daily-driver type insurance. I couldn't ever see myself abiding by classic car insurance requirements. I want to drive it.

That is liability only. The LeMans will get full coverage as I fix it up, but for now I wanted to be legal to drive it.

I don't have a lot to add to this conversation other than I have had Hagerty for many years on my RX-7, and REPU. I even had it on my ill-fated 77 RX-3 SP that was totaled 6 days after procuring said vehicle. They have been nothing short of awesome.

I did have it on a few odd-ball cars in the past as well, including my 83 Plymouth Sapporo that was featured in their magazine as an extinct car according to them. How they thought it was extinct when they had one insured was beyond me. I inquired about insuring my Delica with them last year before I picked it up in Canada, and they said they couldn't do it as they only insure trucks, vans, and SUV's if they were built in 85 or older. I had to go the traditional route with my insurance, and got it from Flo due to the fact that a friend of mine already went through the trouble of getting it on his Delica in Seattle.

Just a few weeks ago I switched to my normal insurance company just for the ease of one bill, and on Friday Hagerty leaves me a message at home that they can insure the Delica now. I have no idea how, but I called yesterday, and the person I spoke with said that they could "most likely" insure it. I sent out the picture yesterday after getting off the phone with them, and have my fingers crossed. My insurance company may be ticked off, but what ever I want cheap insurance that has an agreed-upon value. I can't imagine my regular insurance company would give me much for the Delica as it sits now being an 80's van with not a whole lot of numbers in the states.