DIY roofing?

MadScientistMatt:

Your best bet if the underside of the roof is accessible in the attic is to go up there with a lot of light and look for stains.

+1.   Even better if its during a storm when it's leaking. 

Greg Voth said:

MadScientistMatt:

Your best bet if the underside of the roof is accessible in the attic is to go up there with a lot of light and look for stains.

+1.   Even better if its during a storm when it's leaking. 

Keep in mind, water is some sneaky E36 M3. It will run through the shingle layer in one spot, travel several feet between the shingles and tar paper, penetrate that then run more feet between the tar paper and sheeting before penetrating that. It will also run along sheetrock to get to a crack before it penetrates into the living space. So where you see the stains probably isn't where the leak is. It will be uphill from that and it could be a long ways.

Shingled roof leaks are commonly in valleys or miss-nailed shingles. The tab groove will be too high, a nail head pushed up and cracked a tab. Older roofs are common for losing complete tabs, particularly under trees. It could be anything and anywhere. 

For a temporary desperation patch, a bucket of tar and a large putty knife might stop it, but that patch of shingles will be a bitch to remove come replacement time. I've also used tarps fastened down until funds could be acquired for replacement. They will last a couple of months. Longer under a tree. 

I once fixed a roof leak by replacing a leaking piece of CPVC in a basement.

Second floor roof leak was being caused by a pin hole squirting in the flue on the water heater..   

Water heater would make steam that would condensate as it hit the cool exterior section of the flue causing water damage what was basically two floors up.

Totally lucky find as I was looking at a separate project in the basement...   

Water is simply tricky sometimes.

Don't overlay it.   Strip it and do it right.  Around here it is universally understood that is not the proper way to do things and the entire job will be called into question when you go to sell, and if you are planning on selling it you won't enjoy the full life of the roof.   

Ok, pics & details. 

First, here’s a sketch of the bathroom. 

The line on the left is the overhang of the roof to the interior wall. The gap is the window. There’s 4’ from the inside of the exterior wall to a 2’ wall that protrudes & separates the toilet area from the vanity. Below it(on the pic) is a 3’ gap - the water is leaking through the ceiling there(pics below). At the bottom of the pic is the shower.  

Here’s a pano pic of the same space. 

This is the spot spot on the ceiling that leaks. 

Hers what hat it looks like from above. The rectangle is the area on the ceiling below that leaks. The arrow shows the general direction of the wind during the 3-times it’s leaked. The lighter color shingles are the ones that were replaced this year.

Below are are several other angles & details of the area. 

So so I basically have the ménage à trois of roofing going on here...

I think I would take all of the flashing and siding off from where the valley ends and the roof butts the wall of the house. That's leaking, I bet. ( last pic) Too many patches. Flashing is kind of an art when done right. You might fix your leak by straightening all that out. From past experience I can tell you that where you see water inside has nothing to do with where the roof is leaking.

Can you remove 1 width of shingles from under that overhang starting at the edge of the roof and going up? You could go on up around that jack, 1 or 2 tabs high on either side of the valley. That corner needs work. Sit on a piece of thick foam, get your flat bar and try that. In looking at the pics again, the bottom of the valley looks high. Is there flashing under the valley running parallel with it?

If you paid somebody for this repair you should call somebody else. If you did it yourself.. consider it practice and try try again.

A simple garden hose is all you need to investigate this leak. 

You've got a valley that is overlapped and not woven - not uncommon but not easy to repair without replacing the TOP section. The replacement shingles were apparently shoved under the "overlap" side and it looks like it they don't (all) lay down like they should. I'll bet pointing a hose right in your chalk marks at the valley will make a leak very quickly.

I like the suggestion to re-roof only this side of the house. I also like the full tear-off suggestion and the full ice and water shield due to the flatness (not so much for ice dams ). Definitely place ice and water shield under the valley .. AND that bastard tapered fascia and the sidewall step flashing at the bottom if it.. 

I have even seen expensive architectural shingles on the front and less expensive 3-tabs on the back of a house to save cash. Nobody can see front and back at the same time, unless it is a hip roof or they have a helicopter. 

Lastly - regarding shingle warranty.. do you know anyone who has claimed any benefit from an asphalt shingle warranty? I sure don't. 

If that was my roof, I wouldn't replace it. The tabs haven't started to curl yet and the edges of them are still clean looking. Are the tabs flexible at all? Or do they crack when you try to bend them. If they are at all flexible, I'd leave that roof and fix the leak. It's not new but it looks like it has several years left in it.

The bottom of the vent boot needs to be sealed, I can see a gap in the pictures. Wind could very easily be driving rain up under it. If that white caulk is window or bathroom caulk or silicone, remove it and use something designed for roofing. Roofs expand a fair amount and the caulking needs to be able to move with it. I've had pretty good luck with plain old roofing cement that comes in the gallon bucket. It's nasty stuff and gets everywhere, but it works.

The bottom edge of that valley may well be getting water driven up under it by the wind as well. I would be inclined to glue all of those tabs down with roofing cement or similar as well. Don't just slop it down. Gently pry the tab up and then glue it back down. 

There is a spot in the valley at the top left corner of you chalk mark looks to be loose as well. I'd be inclined to glue it down as well. It doesn't look like a flashed or laced valley. I'd check it thoroughly all the way to the peak. 

Basically, anything that looks like wind could blow water up and under it needs to be addressed. You don't have enough pitch to counteract a strong wind and that corner is a bit of a mess. A heavy rain will also send a pile of water through that area. Spend some time studying it, thinking like water and fix it. 

OHSCriffle nailed it. 

Its leaking in the valley. That repair was done poorly. 

The tar patches below are a distraction. That’s not the leak. 

You need to pull the shingles out of that valley, both top layer and bottom, then redo the valley properly. It will take a square or two- easily accomplished in a day by an amateur. 

But study up first on the right way to do a valley. 

That’s encouraging, thanks guys!!!

Good luck. Toymans "think like water" advice is the best honestly.

Greg Voth said:

MadScientistMatt:

Your best bet if the underside of the roof is accessible in the attic is to go up there with a lot of light and look for stains.

+1.   Even better if its during a storm when it's leaking. 

Yes it is.  Water will run down a rafter and come through the ceiling well away from where the leak is.   

Good luck finding a leak on a flat roof. 

I second everything Toyman said above.   

BTW, I don’t think a garden hose will show you this leak. 

You mentioned wind when it leaks. Even a light rain can be an enormous volume that can’t be duplicated with a garden hose. Add wind, and the water can easily run uphill. 

Its your valley. Just plan for a repair. 

When my mom moved us to Texas forever ago, there was a little cabin on the property she bought which still serves as storage. Her idea of fun is re-roofing it every other summer, because she can't decide if she likes shingles or tin better, and she says it's great exercise. A couple years back she fell off the roof and needed pins in her wrist. 

Your Mom sure knows how to have fun!

In reply to SVreX :

You have no idea-between that & her chainsaw, she says she never has to leave home.

deannathegeek said:

In reply to SVreX :

You have no idea-between that & her chainsaw, she says she never has to leave home.

Except to go get those pins in her wrist. 

I don't think it's been said, but the bottom shingles in the valley need to run up under the other side around 16", which is what creates the water barrier in the valley, and keeps the wind driven water in the valley. For sure the replacement shingles do not extend that far. 

The mess at the roof -to - wall needs to all be removed and replaced (duh) which will include some siding removal also.

Get this:

plus

Do what everybody said then nuke it from orbit with Thompson's water seal. 2 coats

I've never heard of using Thomson's on asphalt shingles  I thought it was for pressure treated lumber on a deck. 

Who knew...

Ever seen the Thru The Roof stuff? Ive used it before to get rid of leaks that i couldnt really see.

My bet though is towards the end of the valley the roof kinda humps over and flattens. I bet wind is driving into the valley where the shingles split and there isnt good enough flashing underneath

Well it might be coincidental, but after being up on the roof the other night it seems to be worse. It’s leaking worse than it has, but there’s basically no wind(and the front is blowing from the opposite direction. 

Here’s a pic of a bird sheltering outside the bathroom window for reference. 

The side wall and that valley have got to be redone. Get that old repair out to the point you see laced shingles or valley flashing. Flash the valley where you exposed it then cut the put back shingles neatly. I don't think you can lace them without going to the ridge witch might not be a bad idea. Not all that muck work. You need to see what's going on up under that corner at the end of the valley too.

In reply to Antihero :

Thanks for the tip on “Through The Roof”. With rain forecast every day this week it seemed like the (hopefully) perfect stop-gap measure. 

As as usual I bought too much material - I used one tube and one tub - but this is the end result. 

From the smell and behavior of this stuff I’m pretty sure it’s basically Shoe Goo/contact cement. 

I climbed up in the attic today & confirmed there is no access into the attic in the addition, so I went above/below/around the leak area & looked of anything questionable at all.

Of course our a/c went out last night, so that cost $350 to fix today. One of the lines had a pinhole & we’d lost all the Freon overnight.