Documentary series

Racecar canoe?

Definitely a canoe. Maybe she is trying to write a book, article, etc?

I am legitimately working on a documentary series. Not a canoe, I'm not spam or an Autobot.

NatalieP wrote: I am legitimately working on a documentary series. Not a canoe, I'm not spam or an autobot.

Decepticon?

Sorry, I had to. Perhaps the masses would like more details?

Well, if you actually looked up what "canoe" means regarding our forum, seems like a reply is worth a try at the moment. If you're in the US, don't forget that most Americans don't care about road racing (which most karting programs seem to focus upon). For a wider appeal, also check out Quarter Midgets:

http://www.quartermidgets.org/index2.asp

Junior Dragsters:
http://jrdragster.nhra.com/

and local Stock Car tracks with classes for children:
http://tweentribune.com/tween/9-year-old-worlds-youngest-stock-car-racer

O man I didnt even think about that before I wrote it! Hilarious. Yeah, in terms of more detail, I'm looking at meeting some parents who are really in to their children racing, as well as meeting the kids too. I'm interested in learning about the sport and the subculture, it can be very expensive I'm finding out, and I'm sure there are other sacrifices that families are making to support their child's participation in the sport. I read somewhere that over 100,000 Americans participate in kart racing, so I'm sure there are some great stories out there.

Thank you very much, this is all helpful. In reply to friedgreencorrado:

If you haven't done so, you may want to make similar posts at some karting-specific forums:
http://www.f125.com/
http://karting.4cycle.com/
http://www.indykartingforum.com/
http://www.ekartingnews.com/forum.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzwyL42UtNg

Where's roblewis, his son competes in kart racing.

I wish I could afford to get my kids started in racing...does that count?

NatalieP wrote: I'm interested in learning about the sport and the subculture, it can be very expensive I'm finding out, and I'm sure there are other sacrifices that families are making to support their child's participation in the sport.

The cost isn't just the equipment (although it's high enough all by itself), it's the travel and what racers call "seat time"..i.e., practice. It's like any other sport in that you must practice a lot if you're going to be successful, but unlike any other in that you can't practice in the front yard with dad. The entire infrastructure (safety, timing/scoring) must be in place for anyone to take even a single lap, and that takes money too.

In reply to friedgreencorrado: interesting. With that in mind, does this sport exclude those with limited financial resources? I mean, I thought hockey was expensive! (Oops, my Canadian is showing). And does this mean, I am more likely to find a certain tax bracket as the average participant?

In reply to The_Jed: I'm sorry, not for this project. That's an entirely different story!

NatalieP wrote: In reply to friedgreencorrado: interesting. With that in mind, does this sport exclude those with limited financial resources? I mean, I thought hockey was expensive! (Oops, my Canadian is showing).

I haven't done the research, but I'll bet I've spent more on tires for a single weekend than anybody other than a goalie spends to play for an entire season.

http://tires.tirerack.com/tires/Hoosier Racing Tires

Those prices are for a single tire, not for a set of four. Of course, that's for a full sized car, not a kart.

NatalieP wrote: And does this me, I am more likely to find a certain tax bracket as the average participant?

Basically, it depends on the individual's level of commitment. My own case as an adult, I was a married middle-class professional that did it as a hobby. When I divorced, I started paying child support. I faced a choice. Would I live on a diet of nothing but ramen and mac & cheese, or stop racing? After an honest evaluation of my (lack of ) talent, I decided that for me, racing was never going to be anything other than a hobby. I quit. On the other hand, I've seen other racers do otherwise. One of the fastest guys I raced against personally was, at the time, an auto shop teacher at a high school. Guess what his kids' shop project was, year after year?

If you'd like to research the kind of racing we were doing, go look for stuff about Sports Car Club of America's "Improved Touring" classes. And then recall that spending that kind of money (which most racers consider "cheap") is the motor racing equivalent of playing in a recreational summer softball league. (or whatever the hockey version of that is.. )

Sorry for the aside, seems I'm trying to 'racersplain'. Back to the kids!

Regarding kids who race, racing is once again just like any other sport. We have our fair share of "sports dads" or "stage moms" who think their child is undiscovered brilliance. And again, unlike any other sport, the financial requirement is staggering. Are there kids with real talent who would benefit from the family reducing their quality of life to support the child? Of course. Are there kids who are only out there because their parents have the income to throw at a child's temporary interest? Definitely. I'm betting you'll find some slight mix of income classes, but it will be mostly rich folks. OTOH, my completely unscientific examination of the subject leads me to think the teams running up front will be a more equal mix of rich & poor than it will be for the teams finishing behind the faster ones.

friedgreencorrado wrote: I'll bet I've spent more on tires for a single weekend than anybody other than a goalie spends to play for an entire season. http://tires.tirerack.com/tires/Hoosier Racing Tires

The most expensive A6's are still less than $2K a set.

I recently (04/11/2013) heard a podcast of the CBC's show Cue (episode: "The ugly side of minor hockey" last part of 1 hour show) which said that youth hockey fees, equipment and private coaching can add up to $20K/year

NatalieP wrote: does this sport exclude those with limited financial resources? I mean, I thought hockey was expensive! (Oops, my Canadian is showing). And does this mean, I am more likely to find a certain tax bracket as the average participant?

Depends......the amount of money hockey parents put into private coaching depends on what they are trying to achieve. Only a wealthy parent can afford to put $20K/yr into their kids' sports.

Those who are trying to turn their kid into pro athletes will spend a lot. Those who are not (or who cannot afford to) will not. That's true of any sport, karting included.

In 2009, the canadian broadcast corporation said:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/ourgame/story/2009/01/16/hockey-costs-too-much.html

Is the cost keeping kids out of minor hockey? Absolutely, players and parents say Minor hockey registration is down — and many blame fees that can be higher than university tuition Ask 17-year-old Dyllon Gibblett why he isn't playing midget AAA in North Battleford, Sask., and he snaps back an answer without hesitation: "Why do we want to shell out $10,000 for a season of hockey?"

figures from a few years ago:
$7K/yr for middle schoolers...plus equipment and private coaching
this source says high school hockey is around $10K-$15k/yr

JoeyM wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: I'll bet I've spent more on tires for a single weekend than anybody other than a goalie spends to play for an entire season. http://tires.tirerack.com/tires/Hoosier Racing Tires

The most expensive A6's are still less than $2K a set. I recently (04/11/2013) heard a podcast of the CBC's show Cue (episode: "The ugly side of minor hockey" last part of 1 hour show) which said that youth hockey fees, equipment and private coaching can add up to $20K/year

Mind blown. I never knew. Although I do wonder if there's the karting version of that expensive private coaching (wouldn't be surprised in the least if there was). I guess the adult version would be spending all your money at Skippy/Bondurant/Roos/etc. every weekend?

JoeyM wrote:

NatalieP wrote: does this sport exclude those with limited financial resources? I mean, I thought hockey was expensive! (Oops, my Canadian is showing). And does this mean, I am more likely to find a certain tax bracket as the average participant?

Depends......the amount of money hockey parents put into private coaching depends on what they are trying to achieve. Only a wealthy parent can afford to put $20K/yr into their kids' sports. Those who are trying to turn their kid into pro athletes will spend a lot. Those who are not (or who cannot afford to) will not. That's true of any sport, karting included.

Most emphatically agreed, that's why I mentioned the sports dad/stage mom thing in a previous post. I guess I just didn't realize that's the kind of money changing hands these days in anything else but motorsport. I had this old Norman Rockwell style understanding of stickandball crap for kids like the PeeWee Football and Little League baseball I did as a kid (40yrs ago).

friedgreencorrado wrote:

JoeyM wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: I'll bet I've spent more on tires for a single weekend than anybody other than a goalie spends to play for an entire season.

The most expensive A6's are still less than $2K a set. I recently (04/11/2013) heard a podcast of the CBC's show Cue (episode: "The ugly side of minor hockey" last part of 1 hour show) which said that youth hockey fees, equipment and private coaching can add up to $20K/year

Mind blown. I never knew. Although I *do* wonder if there's the karting version of that expensive private coaching (wouldn't be surprised in the least if there was).

I'm sure there is. Danica's family obviously spent a buttload on her training. The same has to be true of Lewis Hamilton, and both of them started out in carting.

friedgreencorrado wrote: I guess the adult version would be spending all your money at Skippy/Bondurant/Roos/etc. every weekend?

Exactly....but I know that skippy will work with teenagers if their parents can afford it.

friedgreencorrado wrote:

JoeyM wrote: Those who are trying to turn their kid into pro athletes will spend a lot. Those who are not (or who cannot afford to) will not. That's true of any sport, karting included.

Most emphatically agreed, that's why I mentioned the sports dad/stage mom thing in a previous post. I guess I just didn't realize that's the kind of money changing hands these days in anything else but motorsport.

Lots of parents have the delusion that their way to have a decent retirement is to get junior into the NHL, NFL, PGA, F1, etc. For a very tiny few, it works out. For the rest, it just feeds coaches and middle men.

I forgot to mention the kart track/driveway that was built in in Winter Haven, not Lakeland (yet another jalopnik fail)

It sort of paid off. Last I heard, the kid had made it far enough up the ladder to be doing indy lights. I have no idea if he has enough sponsors to be making money off it, though.

Sorry I was late to the post.

My son has been competing in national level karting for the past 4 years. We are taking a year off (hopefully not more) this year because the cost is simply too high.

NatalieP, couple of things I want to clear up first:

1) This is the wrong place to start. No offense to GRM, but this is a car forum, not a kart forum. www.ekartingnews.com is the best place to start. (or, since you’re in Canada, www.ekartingnews.ca)

2) A gentleman named John Shofner did an excellent karting documentary via Kickstarter last year. I highly recommend you check it out. It is from the positive side of karting, however.

3) From your post and specific mention of kid karters, I’m going to assume you have a child/grandchild/niece/nephew/etc. that’s thinking about getting into karting. You found out how much a kart costs (to get started, you’re honestly looking at $2000) and had sticker shock. (Understood). Or, you got into karting and had a bunch of people tell you to be competitive, you had to spend $3000+ on a motor.

To get starting in karting for a kid under 7, yes, kid karts are the way to start. Unfortunately, the kid kart class is probably the most expensive in karting because it’s easy to buy your way to the front. Although the kid might win, they’ll learn nothing doing that and I have seen way too many kids get tons of dough spent in a kid kart and when they move up to the next class, get decimated. Simply because they (and dad, too) have relied on superfast motors to get to the front instead of driver training and chassis setup.

Don’t get me wrong, karting CAN be very expensive, the choice is yours on how expensive. I would guess that practicing at a local club track ($300-500/year dues) and racing in the local series could be done for a couple of grand a year. Going all the way up to the national levels (Rotax, SKUSA, NOT kid karts) gets more expensive from the travel and consumables. I know for an “arrive and drive” package at a national event, you’re looking at $5000-10,000 for the entire race. For race cars, that’s probably the equivalent of an “arrive and drive” at the 24 hours or LeMans or the Pirelli World Challenge series. How much you want to do yourself and save money is up to you.

Feel free to PM me for more details if you’d like.

-Rob

rob_lewis wrote: 1) This is the wrong place to start. No offense to GRM, but this is a car forum, not a kart forum. www.ekartingnews.com is the best place to start. (or, since you’re in Canada, www.ekartingnews.ca)

Thanks Rob. I figured someone knowledgeable would have input. I'm glad that my google search turned up a decent forum (ekartingnews.com), and sorry that was the 4th one I linked.

rob_lewis wrote: I know for an “arrive and drive” package at a national event, you’re looking at $5000-10,000 for the entire race.

For a single event? Wow, that's more than I expected. (There's a local shop that rents ITS/ITA miatas for ~$2k with a $2800 damage deposit.)

JoeyM wrote:

rob_lewis wrote: 1) This is the wrong place to start. No offense to GRM, but this is a car forum, not a kart forum. www.ekartingnews.com is the best place to start. (or, since you’re in Canada, www.ekartingnews.ca)

Thanks Rob. I figured someone knowledgeable would have input. I'm glad that my google search turned up a decent forum (ekartingnews.com), and sorry that was the 4th one I linked.

rob_lewis wrote: I know for an “arrive and drive” package at a national event, you’re looking at $5000-10,000 for the entire race.

For a single event? Wow, that's more than I expected. (There's a local shop that rents ITS/ITA miatas for ~$2k with a $2800 damage deposit.)

No worries on the link, they were all good places to start with.

Yeah, that's pretty accurate regarding cost. I know someone who has moved from karts to cars and said a Spec Miata weekend rental is $2500 plus damage. He jokes that it's cheaper than karting, however, that's for the karting equivalent of a club race, not a national race. And the damage deposit on a kart is much cheaper (although a new kart/motor package can run close to $15000 if you choose to buy all new).

How much is an arrive and drive at Nationals? Somewhere in this forum I saw that you could buy your way into a Rolex 24 hours for $75,000? That would be the $5000-10,000 karting equivalent.

-Rob