Dog obedience schools. Experiences?

So I think I'm finally going to relent and get a dog for our family. We've had a few cats over the past years. The last one was a great cat. My kids (ages 8, and twins who turn 5 in two weeks) loved him. But over Fathers' Day weekend, he knocked out a screen window in our kitchen in the middle of the night. He was probably trying to chase a low flying bird. We never found him. The kids have always wanted a dog. As much as I love dogs, I've held out because I just didn't want the added responsibility. At this point, even though I'm not thrilled about the extra work, I think it's time.

We're going to get a medium to larger sized dog. Something 60lbs+ full grown. Likely a golden, lab, sheppard or some mix thereof. Anyhow, I haven't had a dog since I was a teenager. For us, it'll be important the dog understands and respects the rules. Stay, come, sit, no jumping, etc... We'd really like to be able to let it run in our yard since we have 3.5 acres. But am concerned with the dog chasing an animal and running away. We don't have the money for an electric fence, it would be a fortune to cover that much territory. I've also seen dog boarding schools, but again they're huge bucks.

Has anyone used one of those dog obedience night classes that meet once per week for an hour? Are they worth the money? I know a lot depends on the quality of the trainer, but in general have you had good experiences?

Buy a book like Puppies for Dummies and read it thru so you know what you are getting in to. I'm not really advocating that specific book - just that it is available at every pet store for $10.

Obedience training isn't really for the dog - it is to teach YOU how to train your dog with supervision. You really have to do all the work when you get home, every day, all the time or what they get at school will be a waste of money. If you already know that - then you can make the best of what a good trainer can teach you about how dogs think.

I grew up with family that raised hunting dogs so I had a pretty good head start - I took classes when I got a family pup about 15yrs ago, learned a few new tricks but have not had to go back - once you got it - you can just apply those same basics to any pooch.

I'd go with something like a border collie. Incredibly smart and eager to learn. Ours is a damn genious.

We didn't use any school, just repetition and positive reinforcement.

One of my ex's family got a new puppy many years ago, we took him to those obedience classes you mentioned. Once a week, and they basically give you "homework" to work for the next week training your dog with something, the following week you move onto something different. I can see how this would be useful for people who dont have much experience with dogs, to learn the right way to train them. Having the classes with your puppy and with other dogs also really helps to socialize them IMO.

That was hands down the smartest and most obedient dogs I have been fortunate to have spent time with for a few years. Quite frankly, now that I am thinking about it, I miss him.

However, the training didn't stop him from occasionally chasing something or wandering out of the unfenced yard from time to time. For the most part you could have him off leash in the yard and he would stay near you.

My mom's dog, which she got around the same time, didnt go through a similar class. I would not say he is as well behaved or as smart (same breed as ex's dog).

In laws new dog will not be taking the classes either. She doesn't listen very well, goes on the floor in the house rather frequently, She is also very antisocial and afraid of everything. In laws don't think its a big deal because obviously she is fine with them. But when we are over she pretty much hides from us the whole time. I feel bad for the dog honestly, I'm sure it would be happier if it learned to not be afraid of everything.

When the wife and I inevitably get a new puppy a few years down the road, we will be doing the obedience training.

The key is to understand that dogs are not people, and are not children. You must be stern with them, you must be patient, and you must be relentless in your ability to create habits both for you and for your dog.

Many new dogs owners get so caught up in the puppy, that by the time their dog is full grown it has learned all its annoying habits, and its too late.

I hate to say it, but your dog really does have to both fear you and love you. In the wild, the dominant male shows his dominance by being the strongest, smartest, and best fighter. If you allow the dog to prove that he's the most brave, he's the fastest, and he's the one with the bigger teeth, he'll dominate you his/her entire life.

My Aussie spent her first 18 months in a household that was trying to replace a lazy old dog. Her enthusiasm was too much for the wife with kids, and so the man of the house put her outside in a cage or beat her.

She was the most intelligent, sweet, loving and well behaved dog I ever knew, and if she did something wrong all you had to do was lower your voice. I felt both guilty for her horrible puppy-hood, but relieved that she was so easy to love for the next 12 years of her life.

My parents boarded their puppy a month ago and will this week too. On the leash and now off the leash training. Worked well enough to make them want more training. I prefer to train my own dog. Walks with me without deviation and responds well to comm ands. Got her to put a possum down before she hurt it last night.

You can do it yourself, but it requires a lot of patience.

One thing I picked up from my dad..don't use "treats" to help with training basic commands (come/sit/stay/heel). They're not too keen to keep responding to those commands once the food goes away. Treats are for tricks. Or as an apology after that bath.

I'd 2nd the border collie idea.

Thanks guys. I definitely realize that most of the training is my and my wife's responsibility...hence why I've always held out on getting a dog until now. Just wondering if the night schools give good input and suggestions to help me along the way.

I do agree that a dog needs to have respect for their owner, which includes some degree of fear. As Pheller said it, I don't mean that in a bad way at all. But they need to respect the rules and understand bad behavior is not OK.

We're fairly set on the breed of dog. Everyone certainly has a favorite kind. We're open minded, but we have our favorites as well.

You may want to consider a Greyhound. They needs lots of exercise but I've never known a Greyhound to have any annoying tendencies (barking, jumping, biting).

My wife has Greyhounds. They need less excersise than any other breed of dog I've been around. Get one through a rescue group and they'll already have house breaking and basic obedience training done plus the peronality sorted out (cat safe, kid safe, high prey drive, that sort of thing) so you can pick what you want. They don't shed much either.
They seem to be an easy tranition into dogs since they all seem to have pretty submissive personalities.

In reality, all dogs (properly trained) are pretty good.

Oh, and learn to whistle really loud. When they come to the whistle - praise and petting (I agree with the "don't treat" for common things above).

That way - when the dogs are a mile away in the woods you can call them back. Very handy for camping/fishing/hiking trips when you want to leave and they are off murdering things.

I didn't read all the posts so I'm more than likely echoing other comments.
If you've never owned a dog, yeah take to to a trainer. Not Petsmart, but a good trainer (ask local breeders, they'll know). I took my first Akita to a trainer because they are a very strong willed dog and I needed to know how to handle her (like the comment said, the school is to train you). It was the best money I've spent on an animal. He not only taught us how to teach the dog stuff, but how to understand how they process things, why they do this or that, and many health issues. That last point saved our dog's life. She got bloat (VERY deadly, VERY quickly) and we recognized the signed right away. There were a few breeds that are susceptible to it and he told us all about it.
Other than that, really make sure you get the right breed for your family and circumstances. Right off the top of my head, the standard poodle comes to mind. I'd never given one a thought, but my friend has one. His dog is very patient, smart, gentile, and doesn't shed or stink.

Hi Klayfish,

I sent you a PM. My wife does training and could offer some great tips on how to best bring a puppy (or adult dog) into your home.

My first suggestion: Don't get a puppy. They are a PITA. You have to teach them everything. To a puppy, everything in the world is new and interesting and it needs to go in it's mouth. Puppies have A.D.D. in spades. Much like children, I like puppies best when they belong to other people.

The "training them when they are puppies to be the dog you want" is a silly theory. I'm on rescue # 5, all adults 2 or more years of age when we got them. The last two were 6 and 10. I have no problem with training older dogs. They don't have A.D.D. and actually listen.

Border Collies are smart (I've had one) but I would not recommend them for beginner dog owners unless you are extremely active. Some are calmer than others, but most need something to do...most of the time. When you don't give them something to do, they will find something, which will typically be something you would not have suggested. Great dogs, but not for everyone.

I have an excellent file from the Dog Whisperer Yahoo Group I can send to anyone who is interested (it's too long to repost here). It will give you the foundation of becoming a pack leader, which is probably 80% of having a good relationship with a canine. dvandtl at yahoo dot com if you want a copy.

I've noticed all the dog suggestions, so I'll drop some info.

I live shepherds. German, Australian, collies, cattle dogs, etc. These dogs need lots of room. I try to take mine out for a run in the country when I get the chance. They also nip at heels especially of children. These behaviors can be curved, but they are natural and part if who they are. They are all very protective which is part of the reason they try to herd children.

My Shepherd loves to chase animals, but will obey commands to stop. She obviously had to be trained for that, but it sounds like you have the space for one.

If you can't deal with this, avoid these dogs. More for me.

Make your oldest go through the class with the dog. Go and watch so you can supervise the whole thing and learn what they are supposed to be teaching and how. Gives them both a job. My parents did it to me at 10, and it was my job from then on out with a new dog.(we raised and bred springers) my proudest moment was when my oldest female ran off, I went out looking for her and found her on the other side of a busy road. When I called her name to get her attention she started running to me, unfortunately that would have her crossing said road. I yelled for her to down, and she did. From a full on run. Had her stay till I was able to get to her and put a lead on. She was chasing rabbits in the field, according to the man that approached me as we were leaving. Got paid to train his dog after him witnessing that incident. Besides once you get them trained and understand how its done. The rest is easy, I even trained our springers to change direction on a whistle, and to come on 2 whistles. Great for when your hunting and in grass waist high.

In reply to Spinout007:

Thats impressive.

N Sperlo wrote: In reply to Spinout007: Thats impressive.

x2. My dad had me doing the same thing (he bred Labradors for waterfowl hunters), but I never reached that level of proficiency.

PHeller wrote: You may want to consider a Greyhound. They needs lots of exercise but I've never known a Greyhound to have any annoying tendencies (barking, jumping, biting).

I LOL'd. Let me talk about what MY two do to annoy me:
One of them is about 90lbs (big, and a little fat). He daily tries to crush me to death sitting on me in bed to snuggle.
The other one, after being petted for a bit while you're sitting down, will thrust his nose under your hand again and again if you stop petting him.
Both have horrible gas. "Little" one will occasionally run outside and bark a few times right before bed.
Both of them will bark at rabbits through a window.

Greyhounds are probably the best breed around if you're looking for low-key. They sleep. And sleep. And sleep. They're naturally gentle, tolerate young kids grabbing at them well, and as stated about will try to smother you and everyone they meet with love. Only downsides are the whole "can't let them off a leash" bit, mine can be a little dominant of other dogs if they team up, and the fat one is sleep aggressive. Which breaks his little heart because he loves nothing more than sleeping near us.

In reply to friedgreencorrado:

She was definitely a special dog. Ate a 1x2 foot section of drywall and insulation, and had no ill effects as a pup, we nursed her through drinking antifreeze, was affectionately known as the dog from hell till she was about 3. That's when my parents did the training thing, after that it was all good stories. My dad was stationed at myrtle beach for the closing of the air base there, and I had her out on the beach working with a 100' lead in the water just having her retrieve a dummy. Little girl in a float ring got away from her mom in the rip current. When mom started yelling, the little girl started crying. She just went to her, no hesitation just swam out to her, I just fed out the lead from chest deep water and told the little girl to hang on to her collar. She just pulled her in. (Getting teary eyed just typing this out.) If you've never seen a springer swim, its something else. No splashing, no wasted effort they just cut through the water.

I had a friend in high school that was terrified of larger dogs, due to being used as a tug o war toy between two larger dogs as a kid. (Seriously scared arms on this dude) I had forgotten about it when I invited him over one day, and we had three springers at that point. The greeting ritual was for her to run up to you and put her head between your legs and start "talking" to you, while you scratched her back and sides. My friend was plastered against the door, after I sent em out of the kitchen and calmed him down, I called her back in the room, and convinced him to give her a chance by getting her riled up and playing (complete with growling and snarling) and then just putting my arm out for her to "get" me. If you had bird dogs they probably had "soft" mouths, and she didn't even leave a red mark on my arm. Which I knew would be the result. After showing him they were just playing and spending some time just sitting there with her holding my arm. He came to be pretty good friends with em, even played with em a few times. Sorry for the thread jack, I miss her, she made it to almost 17 before her kidneys started failing on her.

As for proficiency, its amazing what you can teach a dog with repetition. Teaching to come via two whistles, is done by just adding them to the command, and then dropping the command after a time of using both. The down was just working with her constantly. She was great, it was fun. We also trained ours to drop to a down position after flushing, if they saw you raise a gun to your shoulder they would drop. (Less chance of hitting them if the bird flew low) Most of my family are not big into hunting, but most of our dogs loved it. Our male didn't like it one bit, well at least the gun part of it.

We're definitely not getting a very young puppy. I know they are a TON of work, and I agree with what ddavidv said. They're a lot of fun...when they belong to someone else. We're going to an animal rescue, probably the SPCA, and going to get a dog that's 8-18 months old. Like I said, we've got certain breeds we like, but we're open to options. The one shelter I think we're going to today had several different dogs we liked. There is a Whippet, a Sheppard mix, an American Bulldog and a black lab. All of them are still very young, but not puppies.

I checked your local SPCA and didn't see this listed on the site...but most SPCA's offer training classes and some even offer one on one sessions with behaviorists. If this is offered in your area I highly recommend taking advantage. I did and it worked wonders for me and the dog. Contact your SPCA and see what they suggest.

Spinout007 wrote: As for proficiency, its amazing what you can teach a dog with repetition. Teaching to come via two whistles, is done by just adding them to the command, and then dropping the command after a time of using both. The down was just working with her constantly. She was great, it was fun. We also trained ours to drop to a down position after flushing, if they saw you raise a gun to your shoulder they would drop. (Less chance of hitting them if the bird flew low) Most of my family are not big into hunting, but most of our dogs loved it. Our male didn't like it one bit, well at least the gun part of it.

Neat trick. Only time we ever had a dog hit was when one of my dad's friends fired at a cripple that was swimming away from us. My dad had already released the dog. She didn't get hit too badly, but had little blood clots the rest of her life. The vet was still finding pieces of shot 5 years later. She was probably out favorite..if there was firing and no birds fell, she'd turn around and give us a dirty look.

And that story about your Springer saving the kid was fantastic!

To bring this thread up to date.

We went to the Chester County (PA) SPCA on Saturday. I would have had an easier time adopting a baby from Russia than a dog here. They were ridiculous. There were 4 dogs on their website that we were interested in. Before they even met or spoke to my family (my wife and kids were looking around as I filled out paperwork), they immediately said "Well, you can't see this dog because it's not the right fit for your family. It has a lot of energy.". That was their exact words...it has a lot of energy so it's not right for us. I almost got thrown out of the place arguing with the lady. I understand their concerns, but if they want a dog to get adopted, they need to loosen up a little. The only one they let us see was a one year old Whippet. He was adorable and a great dog. However, he was completely wild. He was very friendly and excited. He was jumping all over the room...on us, the kids, etc...he was biting in a playful way. The kids loved him. We really liked him too and think he would have been a great dog for someone. He just needed proper training from scratch. My wife and I realize that our schedule and already busy life would make that an extreme challenge, so we decided to pass on him. The kids were heartbroken, they cried for a good 20 minutes as we left. They were pleading with us to adopt him.

We drove to another shelter in Reading, PA. We used them with our last cat. They're very nice there and much more easy to work with. We first saw a one year old pit bull terrier. Great dog, we liked him a lot. We asked to see one more dog. A 2-3 year old mix. They called him a Sheppard mix, but I think he's more Golden Retriever than Sheppard. Anyway, he was perfect. Lots of energy, loved the kids, but also was already trained. The shelter didn't know much about him, as they got him as a transfer from another shelter, but he clearly had been someone else's dog before. He knew sit, paw, stay, come (at least when he's inside the house). The kids went nuts over him. So, we are now the proud owners of what I'd call a Golden Sheppard. He's awesome so far. He's fully housebroken and knows basic commands, so we're already "ahead of the curve". Definitely plan on using obedience classes to help out.