Dogs & Invisible Fencing

My wife and I are going tonite to a local shelter looking at adopting a dog. Our new house has some type of invisible fencing system installed (the underground wiring at least) that the previous owners used to initially train their german shepard.

What is the general consensus on IF systems? Are they considered "cruel"? Should I mention we have one or not (we're looking primarily for a smaller indoor type dog)?

When making any type of "purchase", I have made it my policy to PROVIDE no more info than what is asked for. I went to the local pound about a year ago and told them only that Ii was looking for a smallish dog...no mention of breeds, sex, or age. I did that because our pound is known to be disorganized and I wanted to be sure I saw pretty much every available dog.

As far as invisible fences, from watching court cases on tv, I've come to the conclusion they are not necessarily always able to keep a dog confined. Haven't heard anyone say, pro or con if they are humane.

The thing is, they will ask if you have a fence. Not sure if "Invisible Fence" is an acceptable answer.

I used one at previous residence for our 60 pound, lovable, female mutt. I followed the training guidelines (it takes quite a bit of training) and it worked...

For about 1 year.

After one year, she just decided that she had had enough of this "honor system" thing and that the cat, child, random jogger, or whatever it was that was outside of our yard, was more appealing than the shock was shocking.

The thing with an invisible fence is: Once they get out, they don't want to come back in (because they'll get shocked then too).

My dog is otherwised not really trained at all...which is my shortcoming. I think more time spent on training would probably have made the invisible fence more of a success.

I would not consider it cruel. I experienced the shock myself. not unlike grabbing a sparkplug wire or the like. Less cruel than putting a dog on a tie-out, imo.

Clem

DILYSI Dave wrote: The thing is, they will ask if you have a fence. Not sure if "Invisible Fence" is an acceptable answer.

Which is why I'm asking here first!

We live on 1.5 ac in the country, I moved out of the 'burbs to get away from chain link fencing (and close annoying neighbors, etc. etc.) and have no intent on putting it up just for a dog.

What about sliding ties or whatever they are called (long suspended wire with another wire/chain/rope sliding along it, kind of an x-y axis deal)? These seem to give a wide coverage but still maintain the security similar to a fixed point tie?

Again, the intent is for this guy or gal to be a 90% inside dog, they certainly won't be living outside, just enough for exercise and doing their thing.

Sorry if I sound ignorant about this, we had a fenced in yard growing up and never had to think about or deal with stuff like this.

IF needs a lot of training, and if the dog decides to get out, won't come back in. Which has been pointed out. A lot will depend upon the specific dog.

Those sliding ties work very well, if they are anchored correctly and your dog doesn't chew through them.

I think that I would not leave a dog unattended with just an invisible fence. You might be able to use it as a system to keep your dog contained while you are out in the yard with it. You could monitor it's behavior and bring it back if it gets out.

But I wouldn't leave it in the yard, go off to work, and trust the IF to keep the dog contained.

IF != Fence. I wouldn't bother mentioning it.

And not having a fence doesn't normally DQ you from adopting a dog (especially for smaller dogs). They ask, and if you respond in the negative, they usually follow up with other questions about exercise and outside time to make sure you know how much outdoor time the dog will need.

I own two happy dogs and don't have a fence around my normal suburban yard.

I'm just a bit cautious I guess, we started to go thru an adoption process a few years ago and I mentioned the sliding tie thing and they about ripped the application out of my hand and told me I was the cruelest person in the world! Sometime these folks get a little too crazy about this stuff....

fastEddie wrote: I'm just a bit cautious I guess, we started to go thru an adoption process a few years ago and I mentioned the sliding tie thing and they about ripped the application out of my hand and told me I was the cruelest person in the world! Sometime these folks get a little too crazy about this stuff....

Well the thing is also you have to remember that many of these dogs end up in pounds or shelters or rescue because they were not treated well in the first place. Its the job of these people to make sure the animals end up in the best possible situation so they don't come back.

I know of many rescue groups that require a home visit to make sure your home is suitable for the animal in question. Leaving a dog on a tie out like the sliders you mentioned is basically unacceptable because of how limiting it is for the animal and also limits their ability to take shelter outdoors. If you don't have a fenced yard normally an outdoor kennel or run (dog yard) is required.

I have one that uses an RF radius instead of a wire in the ground. It is superb - have had it since '03 and the only time the pooch ever breached the wall - was my fault for forgetting to replace the collar battery.

The RF kind have no line to cross - they can't jump it - if they lose signal to the collar they get whacked until they come back. It won't shock the crap out of the dog if the power goes out either. As long as you make sure the collar is strong enough for your dog, fitted properly and the batteries are kept fresh its reliable and secure. Its not a lethal shock - its just really, really unpleasant. I tried it on my arm - I don't care if you have a mutant huge Irish Wolfhound he isn't going to willingly sustain that if he can help it.

As far as humane... once a dog knows the boundary and as long as you have done your part to ensure they know how to respond (included video tells all) they will never be shocked again after training. The collar gives increasing frequency beeps until it is ready to shock so the dog knows when it is approaching the boundary. My dog was properly trained and has free roam of two acres, is never tied up, and never confined to the house while we aren't home. He will stand right on the line and growl at cats/dogs/UPS people though with the collar beeping like mad.

For the $400+ it cost I could not reccomend it more. A real fence is ugly and expensive, the buried wire kind I had before this was unreliable because like mentioned previously, once they know they can get across it - you are done. You can't unlearn that.

fastEddie wrote: I'm just a bit cautious I guess, we started to go thru an adoption process a few years ago and I mentioned the sliding tie thing and they about ripped the application out of my hand and told me I was the cruelest person in the world! Sometime these folks get a little too crazy about this stuff....

I was deemed unworthy to adopt my pooch a buddy to play with because when they asked me if I had a dog I said yes. Then they asked a pile of personal questions that I declined to answer because its really not relevant if I have a gun in the house or if I have children. Once I declined to answer they got all miffy, which annoyed me and ended with me saying... OK, thats great, you kill that dog there I was planning to adopt and I'll go buy one from a breeder. That pretty much ended the conversation.

Hmmm I need to look into the RF deal to keep the women in line

I was in rescue for a few years. Some people really do go overboard about it.

I'm not a big believer in invisible fencing. It does some things very well after training your dog to understand it. What it doesn't do very well is:

~ keep other dogs away from your dog - let's say a stray wanders into your yard looking for a fight. Your dog is not protected.

~ give other people piece of mind about your dog being confined - invisible fence is, well...invisible. If your dog is barking at the perimeter of your fence at a jogger that person cannot see that the dog is confined. I heard a story of a dog acting aggressive towards a police officer. The dog was confined with invisible fencing. The dog lunged at the officer and was shot. All within invisible fencing.

My Dad has I.f. with a beagle of his. Works great. The dog is docile and non-aggressive. In his case the I.F. is the perfect solution. I have high-strung herding breeds. They are behind a privacy fence facing the road and a 4 board slat fence in the backyard. This solution works for me.

walterj wrote: I was deemed unworthy to adopt my pooch a buddy to play with because when they asked me if I had a dog I said yes. Then they asked a pile of personal questions that I declined to answer because its really not relevant if I have a gun in the house or if I have children. Once I declined to answer they got all miffy, which annoyed me and ended with me saying... OK, thats great, you kill that dog there I was planning to adopt and I'll go buy one from a breeder. That pretty much ended the conversation.

I don't see how owning a gun has any relevance. Maybe they think some idiot will mistake their dog for a burglar crawling around on the carpet and shoot them, or something stupid like that.

Having children is relevant. Some dogs don't deal well with children, especially younger children. Children tend to poke, and grab, and hug, and do things that generally invade the personal space of a dog. It's not that having children will preempt you from adopting a dog, but they'll be more inclined to pair you with certain dogs, and not with others.

I was seriously considering buying a roll of wire and breaking out the radio fence (that the dog decided to ignore after one year as mentioned above) and give it a shot at my new house. I'm thinking it might not work so well because of the "other dogs" scenario. We've got a few that get walked in our neighborhood, and a few that run loose from time to time. I just don't think my dog could resist the urge to join the free roamers. It might be worth a shot though. i've already got the system. A roll of wire and a few flags are a lot cheaper and less time consuming than a full-on fence.

Clem

walterj wrote: I have one that uses an RF radius instead of a wire in the ground. It is superb - have had it since '03 and the only time the pooch ever breached the wall - was my fault for forgetting to replace the collar battery....

This post is dead on. I got an RF Invisible fence and I put up the little boundary flags for training. Once training was completed, I kept the flags in the ground and the dogs would not go anywhere near the flags even if they did not have the collars on.

In reply to fastEddie:

I watched as several friends bought cheap underground electric fences and found that none of them worked. I bought the Invisible fence brand, and have never had a problem with my two dogs. One thing that is critical to success, is proper training, which Inivisible fence provides. LIke others, I got to the point that my dogs would never think to go anywhere near the fence boundry. As they got older, I didn't even put the collars on them anymore.

A friend of mine had one of those fences. He was forever replacing the batteries in the collar after the dog got out. Finally he came home one day and the dog didn't hear him come in. He looked out the window and saw the dog laying in the buzzer zone running down the battery so he could get out when it died.

I say get the classic stake and cable wire-leash. A long one, but make sure its not near trees.

We would actually just let Shelby out, she would tour the neighborhood and get treats from all the neighbors, and then come back to us.

We just picked up her ashes today

During the adoption interview process, tell tem that you are open to their suggestions of what kind of fence they think is appropriate. It shows that you are receptive and it doesn't give them any ammo against you.

Good luck!

The fence 'requirement' with some of these rescue organizations drives me nuts. I realize that it is supposed to filter some of the common deadbeat dog owners out, but I had a rather passionate discussion with a guy in Golden Retriever rescue who was a customer of mine about this subject. Anyone who knows me and my involvement with dogs knows our home is heaven-on-earth for homeless dogs, yet we would automatically be excluded from many adoptions because we don't have a fence. We don't need a fence. I perimeter train my dogs right away and do not let them off a lead until I am certain they will stay put, as well as keep an eye on them while they are outdoors. The GR rescue guy admitted I would probably be excluded from adoption unless I could convince them of a home visit and then they may 'make an exception'. I'm sympathetic to rescues wanting to make the best placements, but being this rigid on the fence rule is denying dogs good homes for a pretty poor reason.

Well, luckily this shelter wasn't that picky, the fence issue didn't even come up.

I'll post pics later this morning when my wife and kids pick her up - she got fixed last night so we couldn't take her home right away. We're pretty excited!

Let me add one more thing. If your dog has much fur or fur with the undercoat of fine hair like a Husky then the IF shocker doesn't work at all.

All of the complaints here about underground fences are addressed with the Invisible Fence brand of fence. Batteries last a minimum of 6 months and are automatically sent to you at the right time. Training is provided by them. The loudness of the audible warning is adjustable, as is the shock intensity. There are probes that reach the skin through any coat of fur. The width of the boundry area is adjustable. You get what you pay for.

ddavidv wrote: The fence 'requirement' with some of these rescue organizations drives me nuts. I realize that it is supposed to filter some of the common deadbeat dog owners out, but I had a rather passionate discussion with a guy in Golden Retriever rescue who was a customer of mine about this subject. Anyone who knows me and my involvement with dogs knows our home is heaven-on-earth for homeless dogs, yet we would automatically be excluded from many adoptions because we don't have a fence. We don't need a fence. I perimeter train my dogs right away and do not let them off a lead until I am certain they will stay put, as well as keep an eye on them while they are outdoors. The GR rescue guy admitted I would probably be excluded from adoption unless I could convince them of a home visit and then they may 'make an exception'. I'm sympathetic to rescues wanting to make the best placements, but being this rigid on the fence rule is denying dogs good homes for a pretty poor reason.

Can you tell me a little more about perimeter training? I've trained my dog so she doesn't bolt all the time but even if I'm there with her, if she sees another dog she's off to the races....